Stimulants still unhealthy if BP is fine?

[goback2013]

It depends on the stims. Long term crystal meth plus lots of AAS gave my friend congestive heart failure. The doctor told him it was ephedrine plus AAS, but most likely because my friend didn’t admit to meth. Obviously, meth is something no one should ever mess with.

I stopped using adrenal gland stimulants years ago and switched to nootropics only until recently when I added 1 methyl blue capsule(Mike Arnold’s supplement) to my morning nootropics. The bottle says to take 4-6 capsules but I stick to one and I’m super energized for hours. One capsule doesn’t elevate my blood pressure. When I take two spread out it tends to kick my bp up. My bp is very reactive to what I take so I take low doses of many things instead of a high dose of anything, except for HGH. I love my 7-9ius of HGH.

Facts. To OP do yourself a favor and stop stims.
After reading some of the posts on addiction and will power I decided to stop all my stims.
I now have more focus. More consistent energy throughout the day.
I've been a stim junkie ever since I discovered ECA(1995/1996) so for almost 30years.
I thought I'd never have the energy. But after 72hrs of headaches and almost nonstop sleeping, every day is getting better.
I wake up refreshed. Ready to go each morning. Glad I'm no longer looking for my supplement stash to weigh or measure out my morning kick starter dose.

I read all these horror stories of stim withdrawals and that scared me the most.
But glad I read some of the will power posts on this board. Now I'm stim free.

Keep in mind I have substituted stims for injectable aminos. Don't know if that explains my increased energy.. but something is working. And stopping stims seems to the major thing.

Now I'm waiting on a relative to finish this errand so I can hit this 4miler than dive in the cool crisp pool. Physical fitness and meeting challenges is my addiction.

 

[pothole]

Define stimulants. There is a whole spectrum for how bad they are in regards to health. Then comes dose and most importantly frequency. As posted above I personally don't think any stimulants can be deemed healthy due to their very nature. Although there are some health benefits for certain ones. Do I think 200mg caffeine daily is bad for you... no. What about 400mg caffeine... still nothing crazy but daily could cause some issues over time. 400mg 3 times weekly... I wouldn't be too worried. 200mg 5 times daily... that will be more of an issue. 400mg 5 times daily... not good at all.

A little dose of ephedrine before training... worse than caffeine but not too bad. High doses of ephedrine all year... an issue. The likes of adderall is never good but could some one use 5mg once weekly and be fine... sure. Like with most things just use common sense. It all depends upon the type of stimulant and then the dose and frequency of that stimulant. If you are taking a small dose of standard stims a few days per week and your bp is fine then I wouldn't worry too much. If you start adding more and more in then you obviously need to pull back. Occasional breaks from all stimulants is always a good thing.

I agree with the overall point you driving at here.

Though I don’t see how one stimulant could be “worse” than the other at therapeutic doses. They all have similar effects on the CNS.

It’s like as soon as someone mentions adderall or similar medications, immediately abuse is assumed and they are thought of as a tweaker. But no one seems to stigmatize the kid taking 80mcg of clen and preworkout before fasted cardio. Or the dudes taking 200mg of modafinil.

I would argue that at prescribed stimulants taken at correct doses would be much safer than mega dosing caffeine, DMAA, t3 and clen.

My opinion is that as long as your vitals are in check and not chronically elevated. You should be fine with whatever you take

 

[Elvia1023]

I agree with the overall point you driving at here.

Though I don’t see how one stimulant could be “worse” than the other at therapeutic doses. They all have similar effects on the CNS.

It’s like as soon as someone mentions adderall or similar medications, immediately abuse is assumed and they are thought of as a tweaker. But no one seems to stigmatize the kid taking 80mcg of clen and preworkout before fasted cardio. Or the dudes taking 200mg of modafinil.

I would argue that at prescribed stimulants taken at correct doses would be much safer than mega dosing caffeine, DMAA, t3 and clen.

My opinion is that as long as your vitals are in check and not chronically elevated. You should be fine with whatever you take

I agree because the dose is the poison. Although I disagree that all stimulants are essentially the same thing. Yes you could take a small dose of what people consider a strong stimulant and I see no issues but as you know the main point I was trying to make with my original point was every situation is different. It's not just the drug but also the dose and many others factors such as the person's genetics and current blood markers that should be considered. If x stim increases your bp massively and you have bp issues it's obviously not for you. So I do agree with your post and we are definitely on the same page because anyone who has taken multiple stims will have ones they respond better to and as long as health markers are ok using those stims it shouldn't matter if they are on the "strong/bad" or "safer/good" list.

Certain stims are worse than others especially for certain people but that's for the person to find out and that's why I always recommend a very low dose of stims and to move up gradually so they can access their respond. As you posted the likes of t3 and clen are known as generally "safer" but even a small dose of those can fuck up loads of people. I personally think clen is bad but everyone has a different opinion and many take it at a reasonable dose and experience no side effects and feel good on it so it's different for everyone.

 

[pothole]

I agree because the dose is the poison. Although I disagree that all stimulants are essentially the same thing. Yes you could take a small dose of what people consider a strong stimulant and I see no issues but as you know the main point I was trying to make with my original point was every situation is different. It's not just the drug but also the dose and many others factors such as the person's genetics and current blood markers that should be considered. If x stim increases your bp massively and you have bp issues it's obviously not for you. So I do agree with your post and we are definitely on the same page because anyone who has taken multiple stims will have ones they respond better to and as long as health markers are ok using those stims it shouldn't matter if they are on the "strong/bad" or "safer/good" list.

Certain stims are worse than others especially for certain people but that's for the person to find out and that's why I always recommend a very low dose of stims and to move up gradually so they can access their respond. As you posted the likes of t3 and clen are known as generally "safer" but even a small dose of those can fuck up loads of people. I personally think clen is bad but everyone has a different opinion and many take it at a reasonable dose and experience no side effects and feel good on it so it's different for everyone.

Totally agree with all of this. Well said

 

[juggy38]

All stims definitely not created equal on “harshness”

IMO, the ones that really drive dopamine through the roof are the bad ones. Adderal for example. I’m on it, 10-15mg, and when work/school life slows the fuck down, I’ll work towards titrating off it. Last year I got down to 5mg 3-4x a week, but it’s damn hard.

JJ knows how hard it is to get off amphs. They are not good.

Caffeine/theacrine…..messing with the adenosine receptors….that’s a whole hell of a lot different than flooding the brain with dopamine.

 

[goback2013]

All stims definitely not created equal on “harshness”

IMO, the ones that really drive dopamine through the roof are the bad ones. Adderal for example. I’m on it, 10-15mg, and when work/school life slows the fuck down, I’ll work towards titrating off it. Last year I got down to 5mg 3-4x a week, but it’s damn hard.

JJ knows how hard it is to get off amphs. They are not good.

Caffeine/theacrine…..messing with the adenosine receptors….that’s a whole hell of a lot different than flooding the brain with dopamine.

10-15mg is sensible.. i was talking to someone the other day, and she was talking about taking 35mg per day... i was like a single 5mg morning dose has me feeling good.
i do miss that feeling.
however, i'd rather have a much slower resting heart rate, and lower overall heart rate while training/running/mma..

 

[qbkilla]

I see Adderall being mentioned, does this promote fat loss?

In my situation I use the ephedra and caffeine combined with gh pre fasted cardio to maximize fat loss .. not for any other reason.

I know clean raises metabolism the most and ephedra is less potent but can be made more potent with caffeine... think the old eca stack.

Not sure if Adderall has recomposition or fat loss effects and how potent.

 

[pothole]

All stims definitely not created equal on “harshness”

IMO, the ones that really drive dopamine through the roof are the bad ones. Adderal for example. I’m on it, 10-15mg, and when work/school life slows the fuck down, I’ll work towards titrating off it. Last year I got down to 5mg 3-4x a week, but it’s damn hard.

JJ knows how hard it is to get off amphs. They are not good.

Caffeine/theacrine…..messing with the adenosine receptors….that’s a whole hell of a lot different than flooding the brain with dopamine.

I see what you’re saying but that’s touching more on the addiction side of amphetamines which would come from habitual/daily use.

I’m referencing more of the cardiovascular sides that OP was talking about. For me I can’t see how 400mg of caffeine in a preworkout is any better for the CNS than a 10mg adderall. Dosage of each is key

 

[pothole]

I see Adderall being mentioned, does this promote fat loss?

In my situation I use the ephedra and caffeine combined with gh pre fasted cardio to maximize fat loss .. not for any other reason.

I know clean raises metabolism the most and ephedra is less potent but can be made more potent with caffeine... think the old eca stack.

Not sure if Adderall has recomposition or fat loss effects and how potent.

Not directly. More of the “fat loss” comes from the lose of appetite. And people just forgetting to eat because they are so locked in on something.

Personally I have never experienced the lack of appetite

 

[juggy38]

Not directly. More of the “fat loss” comes from the lose of appetite. And people just forgetting to eat because they are so locked in on something.

Personally I have never experienced the lack of appetite

I think there are studies showing adderal doses NOT increase Resting energy expenditure like ephedrine does.

The weight loss is directly tied to its appetite suppression and increased locomotion. (Increase of NEAT when juiced on adderal)

 

[jcc80]

I see Adderall being mentioned, does this promote fat loss?

In my situation I use the ephedra and caffeine combined with gh pre fasted cardio to maximize fat loss .. not for any other reason.

I know clean raises metabolism the most and ephedra is less potent but can be made more potent with caffeine... think the old eca stack.

Not sure if Adderall has recomposition or fat loss effects and how potent.

Nah. Someone else already mentioned that it was indirect due to appetite suppression. Even that effect fades with time and tolerance. I'm prescribed 20mg per day. I don't always take the full dose, especially on weekends. I lose a LITTLE appetite but not much.

I notice that when I don't sleep well, I definitely get hungry, and the Adderall doesn't even touch that. Good sleep is essential for fat loss in that way, probably others too.