Super high dosages and strength gains?

[Doberman77]

For the guys who do or know people who do Is there a massive strength increase when going from a normal cycle of say 1g a week to 3g-5g+

 

[MightyJohn]

Thats a hell of a jump 1-3+grams....I think if one was to make such a jump their body would most likely reject it & the sides, feeling shitty would take away from the gains....working one's way up over yrs & yrs increasing each cycle a few hundred mg till that level is reached would be way different

 

[Johnny Smiles]

not necassarily

Thats a hell of a jump 1-3+grams....I think if one was to make such a jump their body would most likely reject it & the sides, feeling shitty would take away from the gains....working one's way up over yrs & yrs increasing each cycle a few hundred mg till that level is reached would be way different

i think you would be surprised mightyjohn...
but, it is better to steadily up the dose tho so you don't miss out on getting gains from the lower doses before you hit your highest.
Phil has said it before go from A to Z don't skip all the oppurtunities to grow in the middle of it -JS

 

[maldorf]

Doing a mega cycle like that will not produce mega growth. If you say put on 10 lbs of lean tissue in a cycle using 1g/wk for 10 weeks, you will not gain 20 lbs of muscle using 2g/wk for 10 weeks. You see decreasing returns when the doses get higher and higher. So sadly its not a lsimple linear relationship between muscle growth and dose. Sp doing 2x as much isnt going to give you 2x the gains. They might only go up maybe 1/4 or so. As the dose gets higher the curve will tend to level off and gains to increase at the rate that your dose does. I learned that the hard way myself.
ANother thing to keep in mind is that your side effects, some can be deadly, will increase fast as your dose goes up. I would say that sides increase at a rate that outpaces your dose increase. So higher doses= more and more sides. Not worth it.

 

[notsobig32]

Its common sense, the more you take the bigger you will get, the more sides you will get, the stronger you will get. It all goes along with it.

You just have to decide why you are in this and what risks are acceptable for you. For me, there is no way i would take that amount. Even if i put on another 20 lbs of lean mass(which is really doubtful), i would feel like absolute shit and would most likely cause my body damage, i wouldn't get to enjoy it so whats the sense.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

well said

Doing a mega cycle like that will not produce mega growth. If you say put on 10 lbs of lean tissue in a cycle using 1g/wk for 10 weeks, you will not gain 20 lbs of muscle using 2g/wk for 10 weeks. You see decreasing returns when the doses get higher and higher. So sadly its not a lsimple linear relationship between muscle growth and dose. Sp doing 2x as much isnt going to give you 2x the gains. They might only go up maybe 1/4 or so. As the dose gets higher the curve will tend to level off and gains to increase at the rate that your dose does. I learned that the hard way myself.
ANother thing to keep in mind is that your side effects, some can be deadly, will increase fast as your dose goes up. I would say that sides increase at a rate that outpaces your dose increase. So higher doses= more and more sides. Not worth it.

VERY good way to describe it. -JS

 

[Doberman77]

Thank's guys and don't worry I plan on getting to mega doses very very slowly over a number a of years only adding an extra 250mg of test here and there when gains dry up and IF my body/health can handle it.

I was just asking out of curiosity as I was wondering if you had a 375 bencher on say 1g and you suddenly put him on 5g would he be able to put 50lb+ on his bench or see a massive imrpovment in strength gains.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

Thank's guys and don't worry I plan on getting to mega doses very very slowly over a number a of years only adding an extra 250mg of test here and there when gains dry up and IF my body/health can handle it.

I was just asking out of curiosity as I was wondering if you had a 375 bencher on say 1g and you suddenly put him on 5g would he be able to put 50lb+ on his bench or see a massive imrpovment in strength gains.[/QUOTE]

MAYBE over time. but not automatically. muscle takes time to build even with excess testosterone. depends on alot of factors.
insulin can make strength gains pretty quickly tho, but thats a whole nother thread -JS

 

[jrs]

If somebody needs 5grams of gear to bench 425 then they're not cut out for this. In fact only a 375 bench on a gram a week is still rather weak. No offense just shedding some light on the fact that somebody's goals might need to be re-evaluated.

 

[eroc613]

Damn, Jay Cutler ^^^^

 

[bigfatandugly]

the truth.

2 summers ago i ramped my totals up to 3g a week for 8 weeks to see what would happen. i usually hover about the 1.25-1.5 mark when you add all the differing compounds up. i was curious from reading about 'the magic number', so i decided to see for myself.

the result

my strength didn't increase two fold by any means. truthfully i felt like shit and will never use that much again.

i have found my best strength gains to come from about 800mg of test a week and 450 mg of tren a week, and it usually peaks about the 5th week.

the more i do this the more i realise it isnt about doses as much as it is about consistency in everything, meals, training frequency and dosing, but dosing in terms of what your body can use without 'flooding' it.


BFU

 

[robot]

For me the difference between 1 and 3 grams is neglible. I can barely eat enough to cover 1 grams worth of growth. More sides and not much in terms of positive effect have me reducing my dosages on a fairly regular basis.

 

[Doberman77]

If somebody needs 5grams of gear to bench 425 then they're not cut out for this. In fact only a 375 bench on a gram a week is still rather weak. No offense just shedding some light on the fact that somebody's goals might need to be re-evaluated.

No because theres load's of 5g a week 500lb benchers in every gym hell anyone on 1 g should be able to do at least 450

 

[oldfella]

Size and dose are related. However there is soooo much more to this equation. Your nutrition has to be such that it supports high doses, your training has to be such that you get the absolute maximum result from high doses and your recovery (rest) must be such to allow your body to rebuild bigger and stronger to use high doses and lastly your health has to be monitored to make sure your body is not rebeling against the high doses!! Yes more will make you bigger, but it is a complicated and risky gamble!!!

Get it wrong and you will pay the price with your health!!!

 

[maldorf]

The big thing to learn on this post though is the law of diminishing returns. Sure you will put on muscle a little faster than normal by doubling your dose, but you will in now way ever see 2x the gains. I dont care how well you eat, how hard and smart you train etc. Nothing can make that happen, unless youre using something really low to start like 250mg/wk test and you go up to 500 mg/wk and even then I doubt you would make 2x the gains. YOu will double your side effect levels though.

 

[notsobig32]

The big thing to learn on this post though is the law of diminishing returns. Sure you will put on muscle a little faster than normal by doubling your dose, but you will in now way ever see 2x the gains. I dont care how well you eat, how hard and smart you train etc. Nothing can make that happen, unless youre using something really low to start like 250mg/wk test and you go up to 500 mg/wk and even then I doubt you would make 2x the gains. YOu will double your side effect levels though.

He asked if you would see greater strength gains from doubling your dose. The answer to that is simple, YES. You will see greater gains, we all beat around the bush. If you are eating sensibly and you are getting enough rest, you WILL see greater gains with a higher doseage. The order of magnitude that the gains will be greater will not be 2x etc....but at the end of the day, higher doseages equal more of everything....good, bad and ugly.

I personally don't advocate the doses but i will answer his question. Its not my place to make his decision for him or to try to school him in what he should or shouldn't do. Its none of our places. There will be much much greater sides doubling doses but he might be one of those people who get ittle to no sides.

 

[jrs]

No because theres load's of 5g a week 500lb benchers in every gym hell anyone on 1 g should be able to do at least 450

I'm not trying to offend you man. I'm showing you that the risks you're willing to take really aren't worth it.

Honestly.. I had at least 10 guys in my high school class under 200 lbs that could bench 365-400 raw. And I didn't go to a big high school.

 

[maldorf]

He asked if you would see greater strength gains from doubling your dose. The answer to that is simple, YES. You will see greater gains, we all beat around the bush. If you are eating sensibly and you are getting enough rest, you WILL see greater gains with a higher doseage. The order of magnitude that the gains will be greater will not be 2x etc....but at the end of the day, higher doseages equal more of everything....good, bad and ugly.

I personally don't advocate the doses but i will answer his question. Its not my place to make his decision for him or to try to school him in what he should or shouldn't do. Its none of our places. There will be much much greater sides doubling doses but he might be one of those people who get ittle to no sides.

Yeah, some may not get sides that are too bad running 3-5g/week but the fact is that most will. So what to you advocate people do? Treat themselves as a lab animal and see what the drugs do? Risk your health and longetivity to put on an extra 5 lbs of muscle!? For those that have been using for awhile and start to flirt with the high doses this is what the case is. Continually running higher and higher doses to put on less than 10 lbs of muscle while they begin to feel ill and not so well. But that is all justified in their minds because they put on some more muscle. Truth be told, when most people look at them the bodybuilder doestnt even look that much different than before. I know countless guy that compete and they all go through this. Eventually most of them learn through experience that its just not worth it. I have a friend that competed in nationals for 5 years or so and he was always complaining how he felt like shit most of the time. He placed in the top 7 or so but no matter what he poured into his body he never placed any higher. He finally reached the point where he realized it was not worth it and stopped it. Now he is much more happy in life.
Another thing to consider is your decisions to use these powerful hormones not only affect you but your family. One must always keep this in mind when you have a wife and children.

 

[mike1107]

If somebody needs 5grams of gear to bench 425 then they're not cut out for this. In fact only a 375 bench on a gram a week is still rather weak. No offense just shedding some light on the fact that somebody's goals might need to be re-evaluated.

depending of bodyweight

 

[notsobig32]

Yeah, some may not get sides that are too bad running 3-5g/week but the fact is that most will. So what to you advocate people do? Treat themselves as a lab animal and see what the drugs do? Risk your health and longetivity to put on an extra 5 lbs of muscle!? For those that have been using for awhile and start to flirt with the high doses this is what the case is. Continually running higher and higher doses to put on less than 10 lbs of muscle while they begin to feel ill and not so well. But that is all justified in their minds because they put on some more muscle. Truth be told, when most people look at them the bodybuilder doestnt even look that much different than before. I know countless guy that compete and they all go through this. Eventually most of them learn through experience that its just not worth it. I have a friend that competed in nationals for 5 years or so and he was always complaining how he felt like shit most of the time. He placed in the top 7 or so but no matter what he poured into his body he never placed any higher. He finally reached the point where he realized it was not worth it and stopped it. Now he is much more happy in life.
Another thing to consider is your decisions to use these powerful hormones not only affect you but your family. One must always keep this in mind when you have a wife and children.

No maldorf, i don't advocate this. i answer the question that the guy asked, Plain and simple. I have taken high doseages as i am sure you have. I did not experience anything similar to what you went through, i chose to stop that because it wasn't right for me and what i wanted out of life. I am simply pointing out that, people rarely answer an OP's question. What they do is provide a reason why they shouldn't do that.

i believe that there are enough threads about the danger of hormone use/abuse on the board that it is all spelled out. And yes, each person should keep their family in mind. We have that ad nauseum in threads. The evils, the pitfalls etc. Thats fine but lets answer his question.

I believe everybody agrees, taking more results in more gains, more sides, more health risks etc......but it does result in greater gains if everything is on point. Not bashing you, just saying people rarely get their question answered and instead get a dissertation on the ethical, moral, health dilemnas of this game. (not talking about you, just saying in general). I know people that have competed in all levels of the sport and still do and take lots of gear and get bloodwork done etc and are fine.