Supp's to take and liver and kidney care?

[The big guy]

Supp's to take and liver and kidney care while on a some what heavy cycle of orals and injectables - opinions? and what to test when blood work is done....

 

[allbeef]

For Sure

Milk Thistle for your liver and lots like a gram a day of it if you are expereincing left sided liver edge pain. There are diferent Milkthistles so get help from the clerk so you get the better type.

I thought it weas cranberry extract or evening primrose people were taking for kidneys. Lots of water for sure.

You need to find a good nutrition shop who can answer these questions and get the right product into your hands.

Vitamin world =www.vitaminworld.com has a 2 for 1 special first Tuesday of every month and for milk thistle thats a bargain Superior1 at suprnatacueticals does bulk on these things and maybe a good consultant to.


Allbeef


Allbeef

 

[CuttingEdge]

Make sure the Milk Thistle is standardized to at least 24% Silymarin when you buy it (the active compound).

Also, you might want to look into:

NAC - N-Acetyl Cysteine
ALA
Dandelion (just for temp. use)
Uva Ursi
Gluathione

 

[Armageddon]

Liv 52 and board sponsor Synthetek has a good product from what I hear.

 

[BIGGUNS101]

I like Liver Detox and cranberry extract, boy with the 1.5 gallons of water and the cranberry I piss all day long, starts to drive me crazy!

 

[The big guy]

What about Hawthorn berry for High bp, is that the extract or what?

 

[cryptasm]

Make sure the Milk Thistle is standardized to at least 24% Silymarin when you buy it (the active compound).

Also, you might want to look into:

NAC - N-Acetyl Cysteine
ALA
Dandelion (just for temp. use)
Uva Ursi
Gluathione

Ditto...Excellent advice Cutting Edge!!

 

[Kane]

A retired firefighter I know, who got Hep C on the job, swears by it. Says Liv 52 helps keep his liver enzymes within normal ranges.

 

[CuttingEdge]

Cry, but I thought every post I made on here was just to bash someone who uses drugs?

 

[cryptasm]

I think Liv52 is good for everyone for liver health..It also has 1000's of clinical studies behind it and 100's of years of use..
The synthtek stuff is excellent too, and its just as effective orally..both are so cheap and they work by different mecanisums,,so using both is even better
they ar ealot cheaper than a new liver
shit I use a ton a shit for my liver

 

[Snarf]

If you really want to take care of your liver, then there are three basic things to keep in mind that will serve you much better than Milk Thistle, Liver Formula 51, super duper liver protector 1000 and whatever else people peddle as liver protectants:

1. Get a baseline LFT panel BEFORE you start your cycle. Repeat every month if you are on a heavy cycle.

2. Avoid orals. If you must take orals, take a sane dose and limit your duration to 4-6 weeks at the most.

3. Know the clinical symptoms of drug induced hepatotoxicity. If you have any clinical symptoms, stop your cycle and get an LFT. For example, upper right quadrant abdominal pain does not mean take some Milk Thistle, it means stop taking the drug that is damaging your liver.

We all want some magic pill to protect us, but it doesn't exist for this type of hepatic injury. I am not saying there is no benefit to taking some of these liver supplements, I am just saying don't bet your liver or your life on them.

I would also welcome references to peer reviewed, double blind placebo controlled, human model data demonstrating Milk Thistle's ability to prevent or reverse drug induced hepatotoxicty or transaminase elevations. I can't seem to find any but I am sure there are people on the board who can point me in the right directions.

Sorry if I sound a little short on this subject, but I deal with drug induced hepatotoxicity every day and we have patients die every year from this so I end up seeing the tragic side of this issue.

 

[CuttingEdge]

Those supplements listed are good for preventive measures. Once you have damage...nada...

 

[KillerStack]

I would also welcome references to peer reviewed, double blind placebo controlled, human model data demonstrating Milk Thistle's ability to prevent or reverse drug induced hepatotoxicty or transaminase elevations. I can't seem to find any but I am sure there are people on the board who can point me in the right directions.

Well, there are no such studies AFAIK, at least not with AAS. There was one abstract that I saw at CEM that showed MT protected against cholestasis due to oral estrogens. Cholestasis is associated with 17AA steroids.

Snarf, what's your opinion of Ursodeoxycholic Acid as a liver protectant?

 

[gassy]

Eating watermelon and drinking watermelon seed tea are oldtime kidney healers and can also aid in breaking up kidney stones.

 

[The big guy]

BP

What about Hawthorn berry for High bp, is that the extract or what?

 

[Snarf]

Well, there are no such studies AFAIK, at least not with AAS. There was one abstract that I saw at CEM that showed MT protected against cholestasis due to oral estrogens. Cholestasis is associated with 17AA steroids.

Snarf, what's your opinion of Ursodeoxycholic Acid as a liver protectant?

Urso has some great applications for example in cystic fibrosis liver disease and biliary cirrhosis. Many of these benefits take a long time to be seen (as long as 12 months) but offer some treatment hope for these types of patients. There are many off-label uses of the drug as well.

Its main benefits are: it increases the rate of bile flow from the hepatocytes, thereby combating cholestasis and diluting toxic bile acids in bile, it inhibits the body's production of toxic bile acids, thereby preventing further injury to the hepatocytes and it inhibits apoptosis (genetically programmed cell death), thereby preventing hepatocytes from dying.

But none of these things have much to do with preventing or treating oral steroid induced hepatic injury. When you take oral AAS they actually cause hepatic cell death (that is why your ALT/AST levels rise, the cells die and release transaminases) and the other main problem is tumor/cyst growth. These are usually benign and resolve when you discontinue steroid use but can present a danger if they rupture or can cause structural obstructions. Urso doesn't help with these types of problems.

And neither do any of those fancy anti-oxidants. When on steroids you are not worried about oxidative or free-radical cellular damage.

The best liver protectant is don't do orals, or do them at sane doses for brief periods of time and get an LFT panel. Then you can throw away your Milk Thistle and sleep at night without worrying about how to protect your only liver.

 

[Snarf]

Milk Thistle for your liver and lots like a gram a day of it if you are expereincing left sided liver edge pain.

Liver pain is usually felt in the upper RIGHT quadrant of your abdomin, right below your ribcage. And taking Milk Thistle when your liver actually hurts is like pissing in a volcano and expecting it to go out.