Suprraspinauts and subscapularis -internal impingement

[Bizmarkie40]

HI,
I have read through some of the posts on shoulder issues. About a year and half ago on my right shoulder I was diagnosed with mild supraspinatus and subscapularis tendinosis as well as some impingement. Specifically with relations to the impingement it read: "there are small subchondral cystic foci in the posterior inferior aspect of the humeral head suggest of internal impingement"

I did the normal route, MRI, traditional therapy and 2 cortizone injections but nothing really worked.

Luckily a chiropratctor showed me some unique band exercises that helped a lot, I would say a 60% improvement.

Then a boxing trainer had me doing some shoulder exercises including bouncing a ball off the wall that for whatever reason seemed to help.

But he also had me doing some sparring with weights in my hand (3 pounds) and I over did it - several days later now my left shoulder is having some of the same issues as the right one. Arggh!

So I have read about ART but not sure how to find out more about that and also wondering if the shoulder horn thing is worth buying.

Another friend is insisting I just not do anything for a week and use muscle relaxers before resuming any therapy / weight type of stuff. I am on the 3rd day of the relaxers. It seemed to help at first but now I cannot really tell the difference.

He really believes that relaxers are critical to calm the muscles, stop the pain signal being sent to the affected area first before going and doing work outs again.

If there is anyone out there with a similar diagnosis, I would like to hear your thoughts on this

One bad shoulder I can handle but both is a bit upsetting. I am trying to train enough to eventually get in the ring and do some sparring. Thanks, it is greatly appreciated
thanks!

 

[AnabolicAnimal667]

HI,
I have read through some of the posts on shoulder issues. About a year and half ago on my right shoulder I was diagnosed with mild supraspinatus and subscapularis tendinosis as well as some impingement. Specifically with relations to the impingement it read: "there are small subchondral cystic foci in the posterior inferior aspect of the humeral head suggest of internal impingement"

I did the normal route, MRI, traditional therapy and 2 cortizone injections but nothing really worked.

Luckily a chiropratctor showed me some unique band exercises that helped a lot, I would say a 60% improvement.

Then a boxing trainer had me doing some shoulder exercises including bouncing a ball off the wall that for whatever reason seemed to help.

But he also had me doing some sparring with weights in my hand (3 pounds) and I over did it - several days later now my left shoulder is having some of the same issues as the right one. Arggh!

So I have read about ART but not sure how to find out more about that and also wondering if the shoulder horn thing is worth buying.

Another friend is insisting I just not do anything for a week and use muscle relaxers before resuming any therapy / weight type of stuff. I am on the 3rd day of the relaxers. It seemed to help at first but now I cannot really tell the difference.

He really believes that relaxers are critical to calm the muscles, stop the pain signal being sent to the affected area first before going and doing work outs again.

If there is anyone out there with a similar diagnosis, I would like to hear your thoughts on this

One bad shoulder I can handle but both is a bit upsetting. I am trying to train enough to eventually get in the ring and do some sparring. Thanks, it is greatly appreciated
thanks!

I do not have your issues but I treat ppl that do have these types of issues. I practive neuromusclar therapy, which is similar to ART. I actually use some ART techinques depending on the case, but back to your point. Your friend has misguided information that taking muscle relaxers are critical, for many reason.
1 if you are going to do any type of ART it is very important that you feel the pain so that you can communicate w/therapist so they know exactly where to go to release it.
2 after treatment is done you will not be able to re sync your nervous system w/skeletal muscular system b/c the signal is blocked, so therefore treatment will not be long lasting or as effect as it should be.
3 simply put, you could do more damage to the issue you are having since you cannot give real feedback on pain levels to therapist

I do not know of many other therapist that treat as aggressivily as I do, so the first question I always ask is if they are any type of relaxer/pain killer etc if so I will not perform any treatment.

In my opinion shoulder horn would not nearly be as effective as a rope stretch, go buy a rope at home depot and it should help out much more. If you have issues w/supra and subscap then your shoulder is rolled fwd and you need to roll it back, shoulder horn does not do that, rope stretch does.

 

[Bizmarkie40]

response

thanks for the feedback. Keep in mind it is only for a week - I did read an article that stated it's important to relax the nervous system and muscles along with other stretching, exercise and massage therapies. Is there anyone who does your kind of treatment in CHicago? I would be curious to contact them. I can Private message you if you'd rather do that. I really hate the side effects of these relaxers but I also know it does not hurt to stop lifting for a week either.

Regardless if the muscle relaxers help or not I do know that doing the exercises given to me by both my chiro and boxing trainer were helping a lot - at least until this last issue with the left shoulder - I think I have to make sure the first time i do a new exercise to actually do it in front of the trainer before trying on my own. It also kind of sucks but I know that I have to permanently lower the weight amount and increase reps, it's the only time both shoulders felt good.

Thanks again and if anyone else has any feedback, i'd really appreciate it.
Biz

 

[Bizmarkie40]

by the way here is the article I was referring to. Does it make sense that you must first relax all the muscles before any rehab (using traditional kinds of physcial therapy including weights) would be really effective?

Shoulder Impingement, Shoulder Impingement Syndrome, and Shoulder Tendonitis

THanks again for your comments.

 

[Bizmarkie40]

also has anyone tried or used these products? They seem expensive but promise to really deal with the tendonitis issues:


AidMyTendon Shop

 

[Bizmarkie40]

Shoulder impingement please help. Thanks

Bumping this thread. If anyone has had these issues, I would love to hear what you did to manage it. The only things that have worked are some specific shoulder and back deltoid exercises but I am looking for a way that might actually totally eliminate it now that I have it in both shoulders. Has anyone used ART or something I read called the Gaston method? Anything on line such as the links I put up that someone has tried with success?

Really appreciate feedback

 

[Riverdog]

I can't speak to your specific aliments but I can suggest a shoulder rehab protocol that has worked well for me. Its by a group of bodybuilders who call themselves The Diesel Crew, Diesel Crew – Muscle Building, Athletic Development, Strength Training, Grip Strength

DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab Protocol Video
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab Protocol‬‏


This is a 7 day shoulder rehab protocol that can be implemented to maintain and restore shoulder health, function and stability.

Weekly Protocol
Day 1: Circuit 1
Day 2: Circuit 2
Day 3: Circuit 3
Day 4: REST
Day 5: Circuit 4
Day 6: Circuit 5
Day 7: REST

Each exercise in the circuit is completed for 12-15 reps and each circuit is done 1-3 times (runs).

Circuit 1:
DB Retractions
DB Protractions
Posterior Capsule Stretch

Circuit 2:
DB Cuban Rotations
Band External Rotations
Band Pull Aparts
Band Dislocates
Band Presses

Circuit 3:
Pull-up Retraction
Barbell Overhead Shrugs
Push-up Plus
Posterior Capsule Stretch

Circuit 4:
Incline DB Retraction
Prone "Y's"
Prone Internal Rotations

Circuit 5:
EQI Push-ups
Prone "T's"
Plate Halos

Extra Exercises that can be substituted in the circuits:
DB Internal / External Rotations
EZ Curl Cuban Rotations
EZ Curl Cuban Presses
Band Abduction / External Rotations

Face Pulls
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - Face Pulls‬‏

Heavy Serratus Strengthening
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - Heavy Serratus Work‬‏

Skiers
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - Skiers‬‏

Scarecrows
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - Scarecrows‬‏

Muscle Snatch
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - Muscle Snatch‬‏

Swiss Ball Push-ups
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - Swiss Ball Push-Ups‬‏

45 Degree Shrugs
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - 45 Degree Shrugs‬‏

Ultimate Two Minute Warm-up Complex
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Ultimate Two Minute Shoulder Warm-up‬‏

Dip Shrugs
YouTube - ‪DieselCrew.com - Shoulder Rehab - Dip Shrugs‬‏


__________________
Jim Smith, CSCS
The Diesel Crew

 

[Bizmarkie40]

Thanks Jim. I may try some of those once I stop with the muscle relaxers. For the most part my work out routine for shoulders has gotten the right shoulder under control but never close to 100%.

has anyone heard of this organization? They do grafton and ART but I do not know if that has worked or not for anyone with similar conditions. All their YELP reviews are good but I know that sometimes people write those reviews as a favor to someone they know and/ or are getting compensated in some manner so I never completely trust them

Active Body Chiropractic - Chicago's Active Release Technique Chiropractors - Sports Injury Specialists - South Loop

 

[mowoodie]

I am a chiropractor and used to do ART for years. I had to quit doing it and go back to traditional chiro care because ART was killing my hands. I had great success with shoulder impingements. If someone is advertising ART it means they are certified and should be able to help you. The ART organization will not allow someone who is not certified or proficient advertise that they do the technique. Give the clinic in Chicago a try and I bet you will be pleased.

 

[Bizmarkie40]

I am a chiropractor and used to do ART for years. I had to quit doing it and go back to traditional chiro care because ART was killing my hands. I had great success with shoulder impingements. If someone is advertising ART it means they are certified and should be able to help you. The ART organization will not allow someone who is not certified or proficient advertise that they do the technique. Give the clinic in Chicago a try and I bet you will be pleased.

Thanks for the feedback, I set up the initial consultation for this Monday at an ART clinic in the south part of downtown Chicago. While I know that Yelp reviews are not always a reliable source, they do seem to have nothing but good reviews.

They say that I should notice signifcant improvement after 3 visits and I think the second one can be scheduled just a few days after the first one so hopefully within a couple of weeks I will know if it working or not

 

[Bizmarkie40]

Thanks for the info on A.R.T that I received on this thread and other similar threads. I did the first one last night and already I can say there is noticeable improvement, especially on the right shoulder which is the worst of the two. For the first time in well over a year, I can put my arm behind my back with minimal stiffness and pain.

It's only the first one so i will have to see if future treatments continue to show more improvement and then of course the big test is can I resume some sort of regular work out routine with my boxing and not have the impingement return.

SO while the verdict is still out, So far I am very pleased and kind of in a bit of disbelief that with one treatment I could feel that much better - weeks of traditional PT, cortisone shots did nothing, some rubber band stretching type stuff and some specific shoulder weight routines helped a bit but none took away the stiffness and pain like what I am experiencing with just one session of ART.

 

[matt1164]

hey biz,

In the last four months I had mri's in both shoulders. both shoulders have torn rotator cuffs. left shoulder has a lot of scar tissue and a possible labrum tear as well. I had cortisone shots in both. the right one feels better- no pain (knock on wood) but the left one hurts like a bitch.

I have used the ultrasound machine from mend me shop and it has helped in the past but now it's causing pain in the left shoulder so stopped.

in the last week I have done 3 sessions of acupuncture, which hasn't seemed to help.

I started ART last night and there was some immediate improvement. the ART practitioner said that it would 4 sessions to really figure out where i stand. He said that its possible surgery could be avoided.

the thing worked best was prescription anti-inflammatory meds from my ortho. They allowed to work out heavy without pain. but the doctor said I couldn't stay on them forever and he thinks its time for surgery. there is a LOT of scar tissue in the left shoulder and it should be removed.

right now I am taking a couple of weeks off from lifting and just doing cardio and eating less. I've went from 246 down to 229 in a five short weeks. I was 260lbs in February before this whole fiasco started.

I don't want to hijack your thread but I can continue to post up my ART progress here and we can compare our progress and maybe help out other PM members who have the same issues. up to you.

good luck,

 

[matt1164]

the ART guy said that alot of people feel relief after the first session and show improvements for a while. he said also said some regress. I feel its a total crapshoot but I am hoping it can get me through the summer and I'll get the surgery in the fall.

 

[matt1164]

the ART guy said that alot of people feel relief after the first session and show improvements for a while. he said also said some regress. I feel its a total crapshoot but I am hoping it can get me through the summer and I'll get the surgery in the fall.

I have spent of lot of money on home ultrasond, acupuncture and ART, total will probably be over 1,000 bucks when the art is done. the surgery would have only cost me 250. I wish I would have done that and prp injections last year when I first felt the pain.

 

[Bizmarkie40]

Thanks Matt. yeah hearing about others who are using the same therapy is helpful so I can kind of compare and contrast my results with theirs. One thing to keep in mind though, on the website of the clinic I am going to they say that tears and bone issues respond less to ART than other symptoms such as impingement, which is what I have. So I am hoping there is no 'regress' at all and that worst case scenario, once the main treatments are done I only have to return once in a while.

I think he will also be talking to me at a future session about certain exercises to not do and other ways to prevent it from happening again and possibly even supplements and diet.

I am scheduled for tomorrow but might delay it if I am still feeeling sore. I don't think the treatment will be as effective if due to my soreness he cannot work as intensely as he would otherwise.

Biz

 

[matt1164]

yeah,

I'll check on this thread every once in a while. the only advise I have to anyone is to stop lifting once they feel pain. and do not resume til the pain subsides.

and of course go to the dr.

 

[matt1164]

hey biz

I had my 2nd art session last night. after the session I was totally pain free for about 3 hours. this morning I have pain, but less pain than before I started.

how's yours going?

 

[Bizmarkie40]

I had my 2nd art session last night. after the session I was totally pain free for about 3 hours. this morning I have pain, but less pain than before I started.

how's yours going?

That is interesting, I am pretty much having the same experience. It felt really good last night after my 2nd treatment (he also did the Graston Technique for the first time) and then I put ice on both shoulders (right one for longer than left since the right one is much more severe) just to ensure that I was taking precautions against any swelling and today it is not as pain free or quite as loose but still much better than before I started the first one.
I wonder if next time I should not even bother icing it at all unless it is really sore when I get home or maybe just ice it for a few minutes. I'll ask him on Monday when I go in for the 3rd.

I also noticed that it helps a lot to do some light shoulder movements to get loose.
I can say more after I drive a bit today. If I can drive with using my right arm and not have to constantly let it rest, than I know it is really making progress.

So far so good, I should really notice even more significant progress after the next 2-3 visits.

Today I start very light weights - will do probably 25% as much as I normally would to see how it goes.

 

[matt1164]

Cool.
I actually just got out of 3rd session. A lot less pain. I agree w u on ice. I am going to take another week off from weights and just do cardio. I have been doing doorway stretches and it helps.

I wonder if u can retitle this thread to ART LOG. so others can find it.

 

[Bizmarkie40]

NO idea but if someone puts "ART" in the search field it should come up.
Let me know how the third treatment feels when you get up tomorrow. My 3rd is not until Monday. I am going to do very very light weights today. Probably two exercises on shoulders with very low weight and low reps and then some ab work. I will then do a little cardio and still keep it light to ensure I am not straining the shoulders, pecs or deltoids in anyway.