syntherol experience, need advice

Wallace · Feb 8, 2006

Hi,
I am trying to grow my calf with syntherol.
I purchased 10 bottles ...
I am now at the second week.

I thought 30G neddles would be good, the thinnest possible to get the oil throug (not easy, but it goes) and to minimize muscle damage from multiple injections.

The only thought was about the depth of the injections. I press the neddle "into" the skin, to push the tip as deep as possible. The pain and the soreness with stretching and massaging confirmed that the olil went in the muscle and not under the skin. Yet, it goes probably in the superficial layer of the muscle. And this is probably not ideal ...

I have injected not more than 1ml per site, using 3 to 5 sites each "session". I had to stop for a day three tomes, because of severe pain and feeling of lump formation. The pain diminished quite quickly with the day off, so no danger of severe inflammation / abscess formation.

So far so good.

Yesterday evening, day 10 (og which 3 were off days), total volume injected per side 15ml, I noticed that my calfs were almost shapeless ... I had a lot of subcutaneous edema, when I pressed with my finger for 30 seconds, on release the was a sort of crater in the tissue, which slowly filled up again ...

I was wondering if this effect is known and what is / might be the cause, BUT, most important, the countermeasure:

1 - to superficial injections (30G is only 8 mm long) with "come back" of oil through the fascia into the subcutaneous tissue?

2 - engorged lymphatics for the oil which, sooner of later, has to be reabsorbed ... via the lymphatics for the most part

3 - too much volume (I would not say that, but this is my first "seriuos" SEO experience)

4 - something else I have not thought???

I would really appreciate the opinion and advice of people who have experience with SEO.

I bought elastic socks which might help reducing the swelling ...

My plan was to use a couple of years to "fix" some of the weak parts of my body. This unexpected side effect worries me a lot. I cannot think to live for months with swollen legs (and other body parts when their turn will come).

Thanks to all those who will partecipate in this discussion!

Wallace

Big A · Feb 8, 2006

Very common.

The calves are an extremelly tight muscle. As such, injecting it daily, creates a huge deal of inflamation as the muscle is traumatised to no end.

Tons of people have very little or no inflamation in any other muscle group, and as soon as they hit the calves, they just swell up like mad. There's no way to really get around it. Once you stop the shots, the inflamation will dissapear within a week.

You are doing everything right from what you said, so it's all good. But 10 bottles???? How long do you plan to inject in your calves for? Or you bought that many because of other bodyparts as well?

Regarding the pins - if you feel they are too short for your calf size, by all means use longer pins.

How is it flowing through the 30g? I only know people using up to 28g - I know I should have tried the 30g myself too, but never thought about it.

gymrat215 · Feb 9, 2006

i guess you have to deal with the pain but itll be worth it good luck bro-

xcelbeyond · Feb 9, 2006

IMHO 8mm is WAY TOO SHORT. I used a 27g, 5/8" long pin shoved in AS FAR AS I COULD get it to go and I felt that it really wasn't long enough.

I've seen/heard of 27g, 1" long pins but I dont know if I'd trust something that thin and long.

TRAINHD · Feb 9, 2006

I've used syntherol in my calfs and what I've noticed is that if I'm not at least 3/4'' (I prefer an inch) of an inch in my calf I have the same side effects that your describeing I prefer 25g 1'' I know alot of guys think thats to big for your calf but I feel I need to get deep in the muscle in order to stretch the muscle fasia without getting weird looking calfs IMHO.

Wallace · Feb 9, 2006

Thanks to everyone!

I am from europe, so I write in cm and kg ...

my calves were 40cm girth. My thighs are big for my calves. My arms are 43cm.
What was/is very bad looking in my calves is the lacking lateral head. When I look at them 45 degress from the side ... they seem inexistent ...

I then decided to, first, shoot lateral. When (and if) the lateral part should come to the same level of the medial, I would start shooting 66% lateral 33% medial.

The plan was to start from 1ml x 3 and going up to 1ml x 5-6. 30 days load and then 6 months mainteinance (x1 weekly).

Thinking of the muscle trauma with needles I choose the thinnest and shotest ones. With 30g the oil goes through, but it takes time, sweating and pain in my fingers/hands. With calves I can use both hands to squeese the syringe ... I guess I could not use 30g in other body parts were I can use only one hand to inject.

I am sure the oil is injected INTO the muscle and not under the skin. Yet I am wondering if it just gather between the muscle and the fascia, since the only 8mm lenght of the needle. In that case, being the fascia perforated by the needle, the following massage and stretch would possibily push some oil back through the fascia hole in the subcutis ...

At the moment the shape of my calves is pretty awful. I am wearing elastic socks since yesterday ... and I have last injected two days ago ... still a lot of swelling and pain ... we'll see ... I'am not even thinking of injecting again in a swollen and painful leg ...

I write once againg that the swelling is mainly under the skin, sa called edema. That means that fluid is accumulating under the skin. There are different causes to this phenomenon. The two main possibilities, in my case, are oil "spillage" under the skin = inflammation under the skin and reactive edema ... OR / AND ... too much oil to be "drained" from the calf MUSCLE ... the oil is drained via the limphatics, which drain the fluid from uinder the skin as well ... if the lymphatics are engorged by the oil, the drainage is impaired and everything which should be drained is left behing, to certain degree = fluid accumulation under the skin.

I am trying to find some thin but longer needles ... for example 27 x 25mm ... it looks like we have such needles for animal use only ... human use is both 27 and 30 x 8mm ... to have a longer one should I use 25G ... which is too big, in my opinion, to hit the muscle some 90 times in 30 days ... the risk of heavy scarring would be too high ... or anyway much hugher than with thinner needles

Human needles are shaped to be the less possible traumatic = less muscle damage. Animal needles ... I dont know ... but I can guess ...

I know I am just talking thoughts and speculations ... but I realised it is mainly thought and speculation in this field ... I am a medical doctor myself ... I have been researching and studying SEO fir the last 2-3years ... I talked to many plastic sugeons about SEO ... no one knows a thing and no one would try them on a patient ... only one collegue, who works, amongst others, with bbers, had some experience ... he suggested small doses, continuos rotation of the injection points ... and LOOOOOOONNNNGGG mainteinance schedule ... he actually talked of about a year AFTER the loading phase ... which he himself did not advised to be very "heavy"...
But this was 3 years ago ...

Yet, there are no studies, no proofs ... I heard talks about x-ray tests, venography and magnetic resonance imaging studies on SEO users ... which found no oil and good muscle ... after months of use ... never had the pleasure to read these reports or talk to the ones who were studied ... I have never seen a former SEO user with the "new" permanent muscle tissue in place ...

I read a lot of incouraging messages on this board ... I really hope you are not just trying to promote synthetek sellings ... I see that synthetek is one of the sponsor here and that the "guide to use" of Big A has been taken in the Syntherol main page ... notihng wrong with that ... only the chance of too much optimism about the product ... which I hope being not the case ...

My personal experience with synthetek is, so far, absolutely good. Professionals, no problem at all with shipment, package and the rest.
From here to have the guarantee that the SEO works and can build PERMANENT muscle tissue ... it is a HUGE hope of mine ...

You all undertand at this pont that my attitude in this experiment is pure hope and madness ... I am curious, I hope, I guess the risks not being that high ... wish me luck!

I will keep you posted!

Wallace

Big A · Feb 10, 2006

I like the way you are approaching the whole subject.

You will not need such long maintanance dosages as you think though, especially if you are in an anabolic state.

Crowler · Feb 10, 2006

The needle size he is using is LESS than a THIRD of an inch. They are basically a quarter of an inch.

This is MUCH too short, as was said before, I think the problem is the lenghth of the needle. I am glad you are looking for longer needles.

CROWLER

Wallace · Feb 10, 2006

Crowler said:
The needle size he is using is LESS than a THIRD of an inch. They are basically a quarter of an inch.

This is MUCH too short, as was said before, I think the problem is the lenghth of the needle. I am glad you are looking for longer needles.

CROWLER

Whatever you say ... BUT ... the fat layer on my calf is not more than 3-4 mm, and this thickness can be reduced to at least 2-3 mm if I press the needle against the skin (the fat is actually "squeezable" to a certain degree)... that leaves at least 5-6 mm to pass the fascia (which is less than 1mm thick - I have operated on many legs and I have seen and cut the fascia myself

) AND penetrate the muscle.

I am not saying 8mm is the ideal lenght ... if one thinks in terms of volume increase and shape, the deeper in the muscle head, the better and more even shape ... but 8mm is more than enough to get into the muscle tissue with 3-4mm distance between skin and fascia ...

Wallace

Crowler · Feb 12, 2006

Wallace said:
Whatever you say ... BUT ... the fat layer on my calf is not more than 3-4 mm, and this thickness can be reduced to at least 2-3 mm if I press the needle against the skin (the fat is actually "squeezable" to a certain degree)... that leaves at least 5-6 mm to pass the fascia (which is less than 1mm thick - I have operated on many legs and I have seen and cut the fascia myself ) AND penetrate the muscle.

I am not saying 8mm is the ideal lenght ... if one thinks in terms of volume increase and shape, the deeper in the muscle head, the better and more even shape ... but 8mm is more than enough to get into the muscle tissue with 3-4mm distance between skin and fascia ...

Wallace

Wallace, if you say less than a 1/3" will get into the muscle tissue then I believe you, but that has zero to do with what you are trying to do so I am not really sure why you mentioned it.

You have snyth which is causing edema. This means it did NOT get into the muscle properly. Get the 1" pins and let us know how it goes.

CROWLER

Wallace · Feb 22, 2006

a couple of weeks later

I have switched to longer needles. Unfortunately thicker as well ... 25 and 23G ... from 16 to 45 mm long ... the longest are too long ... I cut the cap to reduce che lenght ...

More pain, more bleeding ... there are a lot of small nerves and blood vessels in the calf ... a part from the big ones which are, luckily enough, very very deep.

Anyway, so far I have injected about 40ml per calf ... in about 3 weeks ... it is not taht much, I know ... but I do not dare injecting when the muscle is still VERY sore and swollen ... it does not feel right to me ... so I inject avery other day ... 1-2 ml per site ... 2-3 sites per calf ...

The shape is changed ... a little ... the girth is absolutely the same as before ... I dont know what to think ... I fear the oil might damage the muscle and trigger necrosis and scar tissue build up ... with non results as soon as the swelling is gone BUT some nice scar which will prevent future growth ... (It has happened to some friends, but not which SEO).

The swelling under the skin (edema) is still there ... a little less than before, but this might be related to the reduced frequency of injection ...

We'll see what happened ... I will inject ONLY the lateral head of the calf ... so in case I get some nasty side effects that body part would be the only one damaged ... it was nearly non exsistent anyway ... so no big deal ...

I will take some picture when I manage ...

Wallace