T-nation is against MK-677? Do you agree?

[psychor]

Warlock, if you do order Dr. Danielle's +R-ALA, they send you a coupon for a free 120 cap bottle with your first order, good deal. Dogslime, great to hear your test e is going well at 25mg every day. I just recently went up on my test dosage to 200mg a week (60mg test cyp every other day with 0.6mg of arimidex at each shot). I will retest my levels again in a couple months. I give blood every 3 to 4 months, this is important to do.

Forgot to mention, that when I do cook lunch at home, it is usually a flank steak with spinach. I keep around 8 boxes of frozen spinach and two twenty five dollar packs of flank steak from costco in freezer at all times.

Sugar-free jello makes a great snack at night when I am fasting. You can still fast the 16 hours yet consume around 3 egg whites during this fasting time, if the long time without protein bothers you, the egg whites have very little effect on the fast, and great for muscle nitrogen.

MK677 has been shown in studies to have great nitrogen retention, so even while you are fasting, the body is retaining good nitrogen levels for your muscles. If you do cardio at night during your fast, be sure to take around 5 to 10g of BCAA's and 3g of HMB before you hop on the treadmill to burn fat, this will ensure your muscle will all stay intact (see study at ergo-log on cardio and bcaa use to preserve muscle). BCAA's should also be taken before your workout, studies show it is extremely anti-catabolic and will keep your muscle from being broken down, study at ergo-log.

Peace out! It has been fun. Will return end of 2019 to post 2nd year of baseline igf-1 levels (will test baseline igf-1 after being OFF mk677 for at least 2 months). I come off the mk677 in Sept after 7 months on, so will test baseline again around late November.

Tregar, thanks for sharing!!!

Which brand of HMB and BCAAs do you use and where do you get them from?

Thanks Bro!

 

[tregar]

Psychor, just look for bulksupplements brand HMB, betaine (anhydrous tmg) and/or bcaa's, all good to go & cheap.

Warlock said:

"In one of your previous posts you mentioned R-ALA has been shown to be more effective than metformin to improve insulin sensitivity. Do you know at what dosage? And how quickly, in your experience, do you think you can see glucose levels go down once you start the R-ALA?"

I will post the answer to this later tonight, have references.

---------------

Gluconeogenesis and Ketogenic diets

Often asked question:

"This person from my gym had a very similar opinion such as yourself towards ketogenic diet. Here is the info behind what he said…curious as to ur opinion:

I asked a very knowledgeable nutritionist and bodybuilder I know (not some retard im talking experienced and with a PRO-CARD worthy physique and prepared many for contests with success) and he said about ketogenic diet the problem is when protein is over 20 % on ketogenic diet ur body performs process of glucogenesis.

Ur opinion on this? does this ruin the precepts of the diet, or is the glucogenesis ok?"

Answer:

It doesn’t ruin it. your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis… about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 100g/day. If you aren’t eating any carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis.

The key thing that stands out is that knowing that Protein is 58% anti-ketogenic meaning glucose is produced from 58% of protein you are getting more glucose to the muscles from protein instead of 100% from carbs. That is why bodybuilders do pretty well with muscle growth with a high protein moderate fat and low carb diet.

You don't get a 100% surge of glucose from carbs but enough from protein to fill glycogen stores, muscle growth, muscle recover and Amino Acids from protein with limited fat storage you would get from eating a lot more carbs.

Also protein is more thermogenic than fats and carbs also. Burns more energy.

It's a very attractive diet for body builders.

Keto is more attractive to people who are primarily focused on losing fat and weight in general and not so much bodybuilding.

 

[tregar]

------------------------ MK677 or peptides? -----------------------

With the research I have conductued, found that either one will raise your igf-1 around 150 points for the first 2 to 3 weeks, then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the peak rise to around 100 points max.

Those that cannot tolerate the easy to take once a day mk677 in the am due to lethargy can look into taking peptides instead, take nothing at all, or look into taking HGH injections.

In my experience, the first 3 days you ever take mk677, you should start with only 15mg, then work your way up to 25mg over the next 3 days. I notice an almost euphoric like state the 1st two weeks I am on it, as more feel-good neurotransmitters are being released from the brain (see article "mk677 and the beauty of modern science" article at mind and muscle to see why this happens.

This is the period when my igf-1 levels read almost 150 points higher than normal (equivalent to 4iu of pharm grade GH from China). But then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the levels at +100 points igf-1 above your normal reading, around the high level for an 18 year old.

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
Self:
227 igf-1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points for 1st two weeks
Self:
227 igf-1---->327 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 100 points after the 1st couple weeks
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****

*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"

**Notice the similar point jumps between peptides and mk677, either one seems to reach a max of around 100 igf-1 points.

------------------- +R-ALA (alpha lipoic acid) -------------------------

1) the R+ALA (alpha lipoic acid) entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (ref a).

(ref a) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

The Antihyperglycemic Drug ?-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation | Diabetes
hxxp://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/6/1464

In conclusion, our data suggest that α-lipoic acid stimulates glucose uptake by translocating and regulating the intrinsic activity of GLUT4 (Fig. 8). The latter effect may be mediated by stimulating the p38 MAPK or a closely related SB202190- and SB203580-sensitive target. Collectively, these results further support a role of α-lipoic acid as an antidiabetic agent in the treatment of diabetes (1).

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (ref b).

This data reveals that +R-ALA is more effective then metformin.

(ref b) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471

This is where ALA comes into play: in order for glucose to be carried into cells, it must be attached to insulin. ALA is shown to have an insulin mimicking effect. So then more glucose would be shuttled to fat cells because the muscle cells are full, right? Wrong!

Studies show that ALA increases Glut-4 transporters on the outside of muscle cells. This means more glucose can be shuttled into muscle cells and away from fat cells. Studies show that the amount of glucose shuttled to your muscles can increase from 50-60%.

For those who are not that good in math: This means if you ate 100 carbs and originally without ALA, 40 grams of glucose went to your muscles cells and the rest, 60 grams, went to fat cells. Now, by supplementing with ALA, you have the power to send 60 grams of glucose and only 40 to fat cells. That is a big difference! How you ask.

Insulin Effect

ALA has an insulin like effect. It does not take the place of insulin, only mimics it. (To learn about insulin and its effects you can read my Insulin article). ALA has been shown to increase glucose uptake by mimicking insulin and shuttling it to Glut-4 receptors as mentioned above. Because ALA has increased the number of Glut-4 receptors on the outside of the muscle, more glucose can be absorbed.

Effects of Increased Glucose Uptake

This increase of glucose does many positive things. These include:

Increased pump
Less fat accumulation
Increases Amino Acid transport
Increases creatine
Increased insulin sensitivity

Increased Pump

The increased pump is due to the increase in glucose uptake. Not only does this feel great, but it also contributes to muscle growth. By increasing the muscle cells volume, but nutrients are able to be shuttled to the muscle. Hence increased muscle growth.

Less Fat Accumulation

Again, due to the increase in glucose uptake by muscles cells, less glucose is stored as fat. ALA also lowers one's blood sugar levels, creating a more suitable atmosphere for fat burning.

Increased Amino Acid and Creatine Uptake

This comes back to the increased pump. Because the muscle cells are in an enlarged state, more amino acids and creatine can reach them. Insulin increases amino acid and creatine uptake. Remember, ALA mimics insulin, which means it also increases amino acid and creatine uptake. There are a ton of creatine products on the market that are loaded with sugar. This is because sugar causes an insulin spike, which carries the creatine to muscle cells. The problem with this is an excess amount of sugar with cause you to gain fat.

By supplementing with ALA you can carry more creatine to muscle cells without swallowing 75+ grams of sugar. I still recommend taking a simple sugary carb after your workout, but ALA can increase creatine uptake while you take a lower amount of sugar. This is very important for those who are cutting. They can get the same effects post workout without having to worry about storing excess carbs as fat.

Increased Insulin Sensitivity

This is great news for bodybuilders! When I go on a bulking cycle. I find that about after two months, my gains slow drastically. One way to combat this is to go on a brief cutting cycle to and your insulin sensitivity rebuild. Supplementing with ALA could allow you to add more mass as a result of your insulin sensitivity not reducing.

Results During Cutting vs. Bulking

Results will differ depends on your diet. If you are bulking, you can expect to less fat and more muscle gain because of ALA nutrient partitioning effect.

Results from cutting are increased fat loss and a muscle sparing effect. Because your muscles are storing more glucose, your muscles will not become as depleted as they usually do when cutting. This helps you look full and not flat.

2) additional benefit in taking +R-ALA: Weight loss faster with alpha-lipoic acid, in the group that took 1800mg alpha-lipoic acid per day the effect was statistically significant.

http://www.ergo-log.com/weight-loss-faster-with-alpha-lipoic-acid.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/weight-loss-faster-with-alpha-lipoic-acid.html

------------------------modified keto diet for bodybuilders ie Palumbo keto diet------------

Dave Palumbo is the Godfather of the modern modified keto diet for bodybuilders

It is the same modified keto diet that I use year-round, with a cheat meal once every 2 weeks, but I also add in 1/2 cup of oatmeal with a bit of milk to take around 1.5 hr before working out to help fuel my workouts for performance since I lift heavy. (This is then a TKD or targetted ketogenic diet).

Bloating is minimized or non-existant when taking mk677 when using this diet I have observed.

Professional bodybuilder and fitness specialist Dave Palumbo formulated the Palumbo Keto Diet to to preserve ketosis and promote rapid fat loss.

The Palumbo Keto diet requires eating between 1 and 1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight (for men and women) per day, about 0.5 g of fat per pound, and very low carbohydrates -- no direct sources.

Gluconeogenesis and Ketogenic diets:

Gluconeogenes is ok. It doesn’t ruin the diet. Your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis… about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 100g/day. If you aren’t eating any carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis.

The key thing that stands out is that knowing that Protein is 58% anti-ketogenic meaning glucose is produced from 58% of protein you are getting more glucose to the muscles from protein instead of 100% from carbs. That is why bodybuilders do pretty well with muscle growth with a high protein moderate fat and low carb diet.

You don't get a 100% surge of glucose from carbs but enough from protein to fill glycogen stores, muscle growth, muscle recover and Amino Acids from protein with limited fat storage you would get from eating a lot more carbs.

Also protein is more thermogenic than fats and carbs also. Burns more energy.

It's a very attractive diet for body builders.

Keto is more attractive to people who are primarily focused on losing fat and weight in general and not so much bodybuilding.

Incorporate intermittent-fasting into the diet (eat only 8 hours a day, fast other 16 hours) along with cardio during fasting period (take 5g bcaa + 3g HMB to preserve muscle during cardio) and watch the results speak for themselves.

 

[tregar]

Warlock said:

In one of your previous posts you mentioned R-ALA has been shown to be more effective than metformin to improve insulin sensitivity. Do you know at what dosage? And how quickly, in your experience, do you think you can see glucose levels go down once you start the R-ALA?

300mg of +R-ALA is plenty x 3 times a day before a meal, immediate results. Study in post above outlines how the scientist found it was even more effectivfe then metformin, and ergo-log study shows it has additional effects at this dosage for weight loss. Thanks Warlock for your Palumbo information and knowledge, much appreciated! Who would have thought I was using the same diet he was advocating for bodybuilders all these years.

Remember, if you get lethargy from mk677 (some do, I don't) all hope is not lost. See post above for alternatives like peptides (also give +100 point increase in igf-1).

Years ago, I read all of datbtrue's papers on peptides, he was the orginator, propts to datbtrue. He is sorely missed. If you have not yet read the book "Grow young with HGH", get a copy, couple pages on mk677 in the book, how it was discovered, how higher HGH and igf-1 levels can benefit you.

Somatostatin is the enemy as we get older, it begins to program us for death, but MK677, peptides and HGH can put the breaks on somatostain, allowing the brain to release more of the stored up growth hormone it has (and it has lots stored up!) It always has the ability to do this as we age, just has to receive the message to do it again like when we were younger.

 

[warlock]

------------------------ MK677 or peptides? -----------------------

With the research I have conductued, found that either one will raise your igf-1 around 150 points for the first 2 to 3 weeks, then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the peak rise to around 100 points max.

Those that cannot tolerate the easy to take once a day mk677 in the am due to lethargy can look into taking peptides instead, take nothing at all, or look into taking HGH injections.

In my experience, the first 3 days you ever take mk677, you should start with only 15mg, then work your way up to 25mg over the next 3 days. I notice an almost euphoric like state the 1st two weeks I am on it, as more feel-good neurotransmitters are being released from the brain (see article "mk677 and the beauty of modern science" article at mind and muscle to see why this happens.

This is the period when my igf-1 levels read almost 150 points higher than normal (equivalent to 4iu of pharm grade GH from China). But then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the levels at +100 points igf-1 above your normal reading, around the high level for an 18 year old.

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
Self:
227 igf-1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points for 1st two weeks
Self:
227 igf-1---->327 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 100 points after the 1st couple weeks
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****

*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"

**Notice the similar point jumps between peptides and mk677, either one seems to reach a max of around 100 igf-1 points.

------------------- +R-ALA (alpha lipoic acid) -------------------------

1) the R+ALA (alpha lipoic acid) entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (ref a).

(ref a) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

The Antihyperglycemic Drug ?-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation | Diabetes
hxxp://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/6/1464

In conclusion, our data suggest that α-lipoic acid stimulates glucose uptake by translocating and regulating the intrinsic activity of GLUT4 (Fig. 8). The latter effect may be mediated by stimulating the p38 MAPK or a closely related SB202190- and SB203580-sensitive target. Collectively, these results further support a role of α-lipoic acid as an antidiabetic agent in the treatment of diabetes (1).

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (ref b).

This data reveals that +R-ALA is more effective then metformin.

(ref b) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471

This is where ALA comes into play: in order for glucose to be carried into cells, it must be attached to insulin. ALA is shown to have an insulin mimicking effect. So then more glucose would be shuttled to fat cells because the muscle cells are full, right? Wrong!

Studies show that ALA increases Glut-4 transporters on the outside of muscle cells. This means more glucose can be shuttled into muscle cells and away from fat cells. Studies show that the amount of glucose shuttled to your muscles can increase from 50-60%.

For those who are not that good in math: This means if you ate 100 carbs and originally without ALA, 40 grams of glucose went to your muscles cells and the rest, 60 grams, went to fat cells. Now, by supplementing with ALA, you have the power to send 60 grams of glucose and only 40 to fat cells. That is a big difference! How you ask.

Insulin Effect

ALA has an insulin like effect. It does not take the place of insulin, only mimics it. (To learn about insulin and its effects you can read my Insulin article). ALA has been shown to increase glucose uptake by mimicking insulin and shuttling it to Glut-4 receptors as mentioned above. Because ALA has increased the number of Glut-4 receptors on the outside of the muscle, more glucose can be absorbed.

Effects of Increased Glucose Uptake

This increase of glucose does many positive things. These include:

Increased pump
Less fat accumulation
Increases Amino Acid transport
Increases creatine
Increased insulin sensitivity

Increased Pump

The increased pump is due to the increase in glucose uptake. Not only does this feel great, but it also contributes to muscle growth. By increasing the muscle cells volume, but nutrients are able to be shuttled to the muscle. Hence increased muscle growth.

Less Fat Accumulation

Again, due to the increase in glucose uptake by muscles cells, less glucose is stored as fat. ALA also lowers one's blood sugar levels, creating a more suitable atmosphere for fat burning.

Increased Amino Acid and Creatine Uptake

This comes back to the increased pump. Because the muscle cells are in an enlarged state, more amino acids and creatine can reach them. Insulin increases amino acid and creatine uptake. Remember, ALA mimics insulin, which means it also increases amino acid and creatine uptake. There are a ton of creatine products on the market that are loaded with sugar. This is because sugar causes an insulin spike, which carries the creatine to muscle cells. The problem with this is an excess amount of sugar with cause you to gain fat.

By supplementing with ALA you can carry more creatine to muscle cells without swallowing 75+ grams of sugar. I still recommend taking a simple sugary carb after your workout, but ALA can increase creatine uptake while you take a lower amount of sugar. This is very important for those who are cutting. They can get the same effects post workout without having to worry about storing excess carbs as fat.

Increased Insulin Sensitivity

This is great news for bodybuilders! When I go on a bulking cycle. I find that about after two months, my gains slow drastically. One way to combat this is to go on a brief cutting cycle to and your insulin sensitivity rebuild. Supplementing with ALA could allow you to add more mass as a result of your insulin sensitivity not reducing.

Results During Cutting vs. Bulking

Results will differ depends on your diet. If you are bulking, you can expect to less fat and more muscle gain because of ALA nutrient partitioning effect.

Results from cutting are increased fat loss and a muscle sparing effect. Because your muscles are storing more glucose, your muscles will not become as depleted as they usually do when cutting. This helps you look full and not flat.

2) additional benefit in taking +R-ALA: Weight loss faster with alpha-lipoic acid, in the group that took 1800mg alpha-lipoic acid per day the effect was statistically significant.

http://www.ergo-log.com/weight-loss-faster-with-alpha-lipoic-acid.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/weight-loss-faster-with-alpha-lipoic-acid.html

------------------------modified keto diet for bodybuilders ie Palumbo keto diet------------

Dave Palumbo is the Godfather of the modern modified keto diet for bodybuilders

It is the same modified keto diet that I use year-round, with a cheat meal once every 2 weeks, but I also add in 1/2 cup of oatmeal with a bit of milk to take around 1.5 hr before working out to help fuel my workouts for performance since I lift heavy. (This is then a TKD or targetted ketogenic diet).

Bloating is minimized or non-existant when taking mk677 when using this diet I have observed.

Professional bodybuilder and fitness specialist Dave Palumbo formulated the Palumbo Keto Diet to to preserve ketosis and promote rapid fat loss.

The Palumbo Keto diet requires eating between 1 and 1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight (for men and women) per day, about 0.5 g of fat per pound, and very low carbohydrates -- no direct sources.

Gluconeogenesis and Ketogenic diets:

Gluconeogenes is ok. It doesn’t ruin the diet. Your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis… about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 100g/day. If you aren’t eating any carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis.

The key thing that stands out is that knowing that Protein is 58% anti-ketogenic meaning glucose is produced from 58% of protein you are getting more glucose to the muscles from protein instead of 100% from carbs. That is why bodybuilders do pretty well with muscle growth with a high protein moderate fat and low carb diet.

You don't get a 100% surge of glucose from carbs but enough from protein to fill glycogen stores, muscle growth, muscle recover and Amino Acids from protein with limited fat storage you would get from eating a lot more carbs.

Also protein is more thermogenic than fats and carbs also. Burns more energy.

It's a very attractive diet for body builders.

Keto is more attractive to people who are primarily focused on losing fat and weight in general and not so much bodybuilding.

Incorporate intermittent-fasting into the diet (eat only 8 hours a day, fast other 16 hours) along with cardio during fasting period (take 5g bcaa + 3g HMB to preserve muscle during cardio) and watch the results speak for themselves.

Oops, I missed your reply.

 

[warlock]

Warlock said:

300mg of +R-ALA is plenty x 3 times a day before a meal, immediate results. Study in post above outlines how the scientist found it was even more effectivfe then metformin, and ergo-log study shows it has additional effects at this dosage for weight loss. Thanks Warlock for your Palumbo information and knowledge, much appreciated! Who would have thought I was using the same diet he was advocating for bodybuilders all these years.

Remember, if you get lethargy from mk677 (some do, I don't) all hope is not lost. See post above for alternatives like peptides (also give +100 point increase in igf-1).

Years ago, I read all of datbtrue's papers on peptides, he was the orginator, propts to datbtrue. He is sorely missed. If you have not yet read the book "Grow young with HGH", get a copy, couple pages on mk677 in the book, how it was discovered, how higher HGH and igf-1 levels can benefit you.

Somatostatin is the enemy as we get older, it begins to program us for death, but MK677, peptides and HGH can put the breaks on somatostain, allowing the brain to release more of the stored up growth hormone it has (and it has lots stored up!) It always has the ability to do this as we age, just has to receive the message to do it again like when we were younger.

I really appreciate that info. You should post more often. You're very knowledgeable

 

[warlock]

Tregar, I forgot to ask. Currently, my first 3 meals of the day have carbs in them (around workout), while my last 3 meals are carbless. Would you take the 300mg of R-ALA with the first 3 meals (carb meals) or would you still space the dosage out (meal 1, 3 and 6)?

 

[tregar]

Would take them only before the meals with carbs then.

 

[tregar]

Thanks for the kind words warlock. Enjoy nature: get out to the waterparks and walk your dog in the parks, you meet kind people and most of all it allows your mind to be quiet and not think about anything but your beautiful surroundings.

 

[tregar]

Thanks warlock and 11111. 11111 you have been with me since the beginning, much appreciated.

Final last word: I will be back end of this year to post baseline igf-1 after being off mk677 for another 7 months (7 month mk677 cycle ends in sept), so will post baseline igf-1 in November. My mk677 cycles run from March thru Sept every year. I will probably take another mk677 reading around August as well (after being on 6 months).

Don't forget to add 1500mg of arachidonic acid before every workout, this way you don't have to cycle it, today after my chest/tri/shoulders workout (using 4 caps arachidonic acid preworkout) it felt like my traps and shoulders were about to explode end of workout, mind blowing pumps and soreness. Studies show a 3.25 lean muscle increase in 2 months compared to 0.2 lb lean muscle gain in placebo.

Mk677 already gives you a slight pump, add arachidonic acid to the mix and watch out. I rate it just as highly as mk677 in your arsenal. Of course, take your 3g HMB and 5g bcaa preworkout as well to prevent muscle breakdown in the gym.

Metamucil fiber is also very important x twice a day when on a modified palumbo ketogenic diet.

Favorite supplements:

MK677 25mg in am x 7months of the year
arachidonic acid
HMB x 6 to 8g a day
bcaa's x 15g a day
MET-rx pure protein plus 2lb container x 1 50g protein a day
CLA 5g a day
betaine (TMG) 2.5g a day
fish oil x 5 caps a day
flax seed oil x 1 tablespoon a day
choline bitartrate (600mg) take with mk677 in am, enhances pulses
L-arginine and L-ornithine preworkout as well to enhance GH output
creatine x 5g a day

Don't feel bad taking supplements, the current Mr. Olympia takes a whole jar full of supplements before every meal, read this in his interview.

 

[warlock]

Thanks warlock and 11111. 11111 you have been with me since the beginning, much appreciated.

Final last word: I will be back end of this year to post baseline igf-1 after being off mk677 for another 7 months (7 month mk677 cycle ends in sept), so will post baseline igf-1 in November. My mk677 cycles run from March thru Sept every year. I will probably take another mk677 reading around August as well (after being on 6 months).

Don't forget to add 1500mg of arachidonic acid before every workout, this way you don't have to cycle it, today after my chest/tri/shoulders workout (using 4 caps arachidonic acid preworkout) it felt like my traps and shoulders were about to explode end of workout, mind blowing pumps and soreness. Studies show a 3.25 lean muscle increase in 2 months compared to 0.2 lb lean muscle gain in placebo.

Mk677 already gives you a slight pump, add arachidonic acid to the mix and watch out. I rate it just as highly as mk677 in your arsenal. Of course, take your 3g HMB and 5g bcaa preworkout as well to prevent muscle breakdown in the gym.

Metamucil fiber is also very important x twice a day when on a modified palumbo ketogenic diet.

Favorite supplements:

MK677 25mg in am x 7months of the year
arachidonic acid
HMB x 6 to 8g a day
bcaa's x 15g a day
MET-rx pure protein plus 2lb container x 1 50g protein a day
CLA 5g a day
betaine (TMG) 2.5g a day
fish oil x 5 caps a day
flax seed oil x 1 tablespoon a day
choline bitartrate (600mg) take with mk677 in am, enhances pulses
L-arginine and L-ornithine preworkout as well to enhance GH output
creatine x 5g a day

Don't feel bad taking supplements, the current Mr. Olympia takes a whole jar full of supplements before every meal, read this in his interview.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I enjoy reading your posts.

I'm trying the R-ALA you suggested and I think I might go ahead and order that arachidonic acid. From what you are saying, the pumps and fullness are very noticeable so it seems it could be a fantastic supplement to take pre-workout.

Man, I used to be a fan of MET-rx back in the day. I remember it tasting so good. I have not had it in years though.

 

[mayan]

Don't feel bad taking supplements, the current Mr. Olympia takes a whole jar full of supplements before every meal, read this in his interview.

Lol

 

[warlock]

Tregar

I was looking into the enhanced athlete arachidonic acid and also watched a couple of videos on it. Seems like reviews are very good. The only problem I saw is that due to it causing so much inflammation, it could negatively impact the health. In your opinion, would it be better to take it only every once in a while? Or cycle it here and there? How many times a week do you take it?

Do you notice the extra pumps from day 1?

 

[animal eater]

I was looking into the enhanced athlete arachidonic acid and also watched a couple of videos on it. Seems like reviews are very good. The only problem I saw is that due to it causing so much inflammation, it could negatively impact the health. In your opinion, would it be better to take it only every once in a while? Or cycle it here and there? How many times a week do you take it?

Do you notice the extra pumps from day 1?

I remember taking AA when it first came out. It gave me the WORST headaches under the sun and that was because it is pro-inflamatory. It wasn't for me, that's for sure. And before anyone ask, I was young, fit and had no blood pressure issues etc.

 

[tregar]

Gains of 3.25 lbs lean mass in 2 months on arachidonic acid vs 0.2 lb in placebo:

http://www.ergo-log.com/daily-1500-...s-strength-athletes-stronger-and-bulkier.html

Yes, the pump is noticed from day 1, I only use it pre-workout on the days I workout, not every day, this way I don't have to cycle it, stays active in body for longer periods after this anyways.

I would never exceed 4 caps, and for most 3 caps will do.

I tried 5 caps just to see what would happen, and it did result in a nasty headache post workout, just like animal_eater experienced...and I never get headaches, so will only keep at 3 to 4 caps pre-workout from now on. I also did not take any fish oil or flax seed oil that morning (purposely left it out) so there obviously was an imbalance that morning of arachidoinc acid to omega 3's. I will take fish oil and flax seed oil next time, as I do normally.

Yeah, be careful. The pumps are insane, and soreness that is long-lasting, love the stuff, but be careful on the dosage or you can get a headache in my experience too, it may not be for some at any dose.

Since I use 5 caps fish oil daily, plus flax seed oil, and CLA which convers to dha and epa in the body, I'm not too concerned about the inflamation. Just remember if you are going to take arachidonic acid supplements you should have a healthy ratio of omega-6 to omega-3:

arachidonic acid-the good and the bad:

Arachidonic Acid: The Good and Bad
hxxp://www.kcbd.com/story/1467213/arachidonic-acid-the-good-and-bad/

 

[tregar]

Gotta love ergo-log website:

Recently started taking several caps of turmeric (along with normal +R-ALA 300mg) post-workout to enhance glucose and amino acids from post workout met-rx shake uptake by muscles.

Turmeric boosts glucose uptake in muscle cells:

https://www.ergo-log.com/turmericglucose.html

Diabetes-2 has become a widespread disease in Korea as well, so Korean pharmacologists are looking for substances that help cells to absorb more glucose. Researchers at the Gyeongsang National University have discovered in experiments with mouse muscle cells that curcumin enhances the effect of insulin.

If you expose a muscle cell to insulin and curcumin, then the GLUT4 activity increases by more, as is shown in the figure below:

And as we already know, +R-ALA also greatly increases GLUT4 activity as well.

 

[11111]

Gains of 3.25 lbs lean mass in 2 months on arachidonic acid vs 0.2 lb in placebo:

http://www.ergo-log.com/daily-1500-...s-strength-athletes-stronger-and-bulkier.html

Yes, the pump is noticed from day 1, I only use it pre-workout on the days I workout, not every day, this way I don't have to cycle it, stays active in body for longer periods after this anyways.

I would never exceed 4 caps, and for most 3 caps will do.

I tried 5 caps just to see what would happen, and it did result in a nasty headache post workout, just like animal_eater experienced...and I never get headaches, so will only keep at 3 to 4 caps pre-workout from now on. I also did not take any fish oil or flax seed oil that morning (purposely left it out) so there obviously was an imbalance that morning of arachidoinc acid to omega 3's. I will take fish oil and flax seed oil next time, as I do normally.

Yeah, be careful. The pumps are insane, and soreness that is long-lasting, love the stuff, but be careful on the dosage or you can get a headache in my experience too, it may not be for some at any dose.

Since I use 5 caps fish oil daily, plus flax seed oil, and CLA which convers to dha and epa in the body, I'm not too concerned about the inflamation. Just remember if you are going to take arachidonic acid supplements you should have a healthy ratio of omega-6 to omega-3:

arachidonic acid-the good and the bad:

Arachidonic Acid: The Good and Bad
hxxp://www.kcbd.com/story/1467213/arachidonic-acid-the-good-and-bad/

nice, tregar, thanks. i just ordered a couple of bottles, looking to give it an 8 week run. i'm natural so i'm hoping it will give a nice "boost" as far as gaining muscle goes...

 

[tregar]

11111 said:

nice, tregar, thanks. i just ordered a couple of bottles, looking to give it an 8 week run. i'm natural so i'm hoping it will give a nice "boost" as far as gaining muscle goes...

Let us know how you like it 11111, glad to hear! I was natural during all my years of lifting in my 20's, and 5 years in my 30's.

Impressed by the claims in 2006 Anabolics ref guide by Llewellyn of up to 8 lbs gain in some users over 3 months, good 3 page reading in that book. Always notice a very full dense pumped look to muscles all of same workout day and same for next day.

Few favorite studies that really work:

Bodybuilders progress faster with 5 grams CLA daily:
https://www.ergo-log.com/clabodybuilders.html


Big fan of 5 grams CLA per day as well, 2 before every meal.

Health benefits of CLA:
https://www.mercola.com/beef/cla.htm

Just lost another 1% bodyfat over a couple weeks (220lb, down from 15% to 14%) while going up in strength on all exercises in gym, mk677 is good stuff...on a reduced calorie diet every day of 1800, 600 cal at each of 3 meals with intermittent fasting (eat only 8 hours of the day) with cardio during fast x 3 days a week. The RENPHO thirty dollar electronic body fat scale is the bomb, very accurate muscle mass and body fat measurements, bodyfat even down to half percentages.

Study shows you can keep all your lean muscle and burn lots of fat with intermittent fasting and cardio combined for bodybuilders:

Rapid weight loss without losing muscle: combine intermittent fasting and cardio:
https://www.ergo-log.com/rapid-weig...-combine-intermittent-fasting-and-cardio.html
Just remember to take 5g bcaa's and or 3g HMB before doing cardio to preserve all your muscle, same pre-workout, works well.

 

[tregar]

Forgot to mention, I take 5g CLA divided with 3 meals + 1.25g betaine x twice a day for best results:

https://www.nutritionexpress.com/showarticle.aspx?articleid=2426
hxxps://www.nutritionexpress.com/showarticle.aspx?articleid=2426


Ergo log study shows CLA + betaine superstack very effective:
http://www.ergo-log.com/betacla.html


Prepare all my supplements the day before work days by combining the powders (1.25 g betaine + 3g HMB + 5g bcaa's) into small hobby lobby ziplock jewelry baggies (100 baggies for two dollar), then taking one of these 1st thing in am with water, another with my lunch, and last one mixed into met-rx protein plus shaker bottle drink at 2:30pm. I add ice and cup of water at work to shaker bottle which already has the met-rx dry powder in it. Take the CLA, fish oil and +R-ALA/berberine capsules with me in a seperate baggie as they are not powders but capsules. 25mg MK677 first thing in am with coffee.

 

[tregar]

Typical reduced calorie (1800-1900) Palumbo keto diet (high protein, moderate fats, very low carb).

The Palumbo Keto diet requires eating between 1 and 1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight (for men and women) per day, about 0.5 g of fat per pound, and very low carbohydrates -- no direct sources.

upon awakening: 3g HMB + 5g bcaa + 1.25g betaine (tmg anhydrous) + 25mg mk677 with coffee
------------
Breakfast:

2g CLA + 300mg +R-ALA + berberine capsule + 1 tablespoon flax seed oil

5 eggs, keep 2 yolks, 1/2 sausage link, 1/2 cup oatmeal in 1/4 cup milk + water.

Oatmeal only used on workout days preworkout to fuel best performance in gym ie TKD (targetted keto diet)
------------
Lunch:

3g HMB + 5g bcaa + 1.25g betaine

2g CLA + 300mg +R-ALA + berberine capsule

2 chicken breast from Whataburger on a tray by itself for $4, 1 avacado (1 net gram of carb due to high fiber)

alternate lunch (on other days):

Flank steak with frozen spinach cooked & mixed with 2 tablespoons heavy whipping cream or sour cream
------------
mid-day:

2.5 scoops MET-rx protein plus powder in 1/4 cup milk + 2 tablespoons heavy whipping cream, rest water and ice + 1/4 cup almonds (great fiber & fats and low carb)
------------
The fast:

Fast after 3 pm all the way thru dinner and sleep (16 hour intermittent fast), do cardio during this fast at home on treadmill x 3 times a week. Take 5g bcaa + 3g HMB pre-cardio and pre-workout to prevent muscle breakdown.
------------
cheatmeal:

every 2 weeks: pizza with works or something similar, keeps thyroid going strong, breaks boredom, adds additional water into muscles, the "hydrate" from carbo-hydrate.
-------------
Gluconeogenes from protein is just fine. It doesn’t ruin the keto diet. Your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis...about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 50 to 60g/day if you are eating only 8 hours of the day with fasting 16 hours. If you are eating limited non-starchy carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis. Palumbo has produced many a shredded muscular bodybuilder on this cutting, I use it year-round.

The amount of fat you keep in the diet can be used as a "leverage" to adjust the rate at which you burn your own bodyfat. Your own bodyfat can also be used as a source of fuel (calories) so you can gain muscle while you lose fat. MK677, CLA, arachidonic acid, betaine, HMB, bcaa's, +R-ALA, berberine...all help with the muscle building and fat loss. It can be done at the same, see the many studies at ergo-log.

Limited glucose from protein to fill glycogen stores, muscle growth, muscle recover and Amino Acids from protein with limited fat storage you would get from eating a lot more carbs.