t4 and Thyroid Function

pro · Jan 30, 2009

hi

I want run t4 in cut cycle with clen but i Afraid of Shutdown my Thyroid Function after Stoped t4 Or at least do not work the same efficiency as before?

Big Bapper · Jan 30, 2009

T4 will only convert the amount off T3 necessary for you metabolism. I don't think it will shut your own Thyroid production down permanently.

PHIL HERNON · Jan 30, 2009

OPINION

CLEN WILL SHUT DOWN THYROID UNLESS DONE PROPERLY....IF NOT THEN YOU WILL NEED T-3 FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.......BE CAREFUL WITH CLEN.

path2greatness · Feb 6, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
CLEN WILL SHUT DOWN THYROID UNLESS DONE PROPERLY....IF NOT THEN YOU WILL NEED T-3 FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.......BE CAREFUL WITH CLEN.

Phil, could you elaborate on this? I have never used t3 or t4 but have thought of trying lower doses of t4 for a mild metabolic boost to aid in leaning up. Pointless?

Massive G · Feb 6, 2009

T4 will cause more suppression than T3 as it is longer acting-meaning it will take longer for your thyroid to recover.
You can take too much as well as the body converts -depending upon how you take it -all of it to T3 causing your normal pathway to shut down or reduce the amount.

Every thing you'll take theromgencally speaking messes with you thyroid-clen, Thyroid, ECA, nicotene, GH, AAS (especially trenbelone).

As with everything-it depends on dosing and duration.
Long term use of Anabolics can permanently shut down the axis we know this, but thr thyroid is very strong and usually recovers well as people aren't on Thyroid for decades (at least I hope not).

I am my own case study as I caused hypothyroidism in myself from the above compounds so take me as an example-I could write a book on my experiences and endos and T4 and T3-you guys think docs are brainwashed about hypo-gonadism-they are programmed from med school to believe T4 and TSh are the gold standards in thyroid treatment and they are not.

blueboykennels · Feb 6, 2009

You bring up a point that beens weighing heavy on my mind. I have thyroid dease, hyperthyroid to be exact. I've been wondering if I could use "gear" since the medication I'm currently taking activates out of my liver. If the meds don't work this time I'll have to have my thyroid removed and then I'll be hypothyroid. At that point I'll be on thyroid meds for the rest of my life. Anyone have any experience with this?

Big Bapper · Feb 6, 2009

Agreed

PHIL HERNON said:
CLEN WILL SHUT DOWN THYROID UNLESS DONE PROPERLY....IF NOT THEN YOU WILL NEED T-3 FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.......BE CAREFUL WITH CLEN.

Everyone things clen is some wishy washy soft newbie drug. Its one of the most dangerous drugs bodybuilders use.IMO

Big Bapper · Feb 6, 2009

Awesome post Bro

Massive G said:
T4 will cause more suppression than T3 as it is longer acting-meaning it will take longer for your thyroid to recover.
You can take too much as well as the body converts -depending upon how you take it -all of it to T3 causing your normal pathway to shut down or reduce the amount.

Every thing you'll take theromgencally speaking messes with you thyroid-clen, Thyroid, ECA, nicotene, GH, AAS (especially trenbelone).

As with everything-it depends on dosing and duration.
Long term use of Anabolics can permanently shut down the axis we know this, but thr thyroid is very strong and usually recovers well as people aren't on Thyroid for decades (at least I hope not).

I am my own case study as I caused hypothyroidism in myself from the above compounds so take me as an example-I could write a book on my experiences and endos and T4 and T3-you guys think docs are brainwashed about hypo-gonadism-they are programmed from med school to believe T4 and TSh are the gold standards in thyroid treatment and they are not.

I would of said T3 would shut you down quicker. How much T4 would you say is too much.

Massive G · Feb 6, 2009

Big Bapper said:
I would of said T3 would shut you down quicker. How much T4 would you say is too much.

Generally T3 is 5-8 times stronger when comparing the two -but in general endos use the 4:1 ratio meaning 25 mcgs would be equal to 100 mcg T4.
Rather than type it out in my own words I have some text that is applicable for the discussion-pasted from my files...

"T3 (triiodothyronine) T4 (thyroxine) are the main thyroid hormones. T3 is five to eight times as strong as T4 (taking into consideration that it's absorbed at a higher rate than T4), and it's biologically more active. T4 is like the food in your refrigerator, while T3 is like the food on your plate.

T4 is slow acting, with a half-life of about one week — after a week, you have about half the level of the T4 still in your body, a week or so later you have half of that half remaining, and so on. Its full effects aren't reached until about six weeks after starting or changing a dose, which is why lab tests are optimally done every six weeks or so until a patient with hypothyroidism has reached satisfactory and stable thyroid hormone levels. T3, on the other hand, has a half-life of about a day. People on T3 sometimes feel its effects within minutes after taking it.

A thyroid gland that functions normally produces T4 and T3. Twenty percent of the T3 circulating in the body comes directly from the thyroid gland, and the remaining 80 percent comes from conversion of T4. Because of this conversion process, most doctors prescribe only synthetic T4 medication (Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid, Eltroxin, Unithroid, and others). Many patients with hypothyroidism do fine on T4 only.

However, many others don't, and they need T3 supplementation in addition to T4. If the thyroid gland is malfunctioning and not producing enough — or any — T4, why assume that it still puts out enough T3, or that the body converts enough of its T4 to T3?"

There is also a potency issue with the synthetic T-4, and it is very sensitive to temp and storage conditions as well. Conversion is another game all together.

So you can see why T4 would shut you down if you did say 10 weeks of it it is going to take a while to achieve desirable blood levels but the T4 will be shutting down your thyroid because it will reduce TSH-which reduces the 20% or so of T3 your thyroid gland makes so it is lowering thyroid function, T3 is direct and fast and in and out so it even if on longer cycles and higher doses to a point -your thyroid gland will recover very quickly vs with T4 when you stop you still have it affecting they thyroid for 6-8 weeks.

hilly2008 · Feb 6, 2009

I no their is always alot of info on the net saying t3 can damage thyroid etc permanantly. However i am a member on uk-muscle.co.uk and a competitor on their was on t3 for several months and got his thyroid checked after 6-8 weeks and it was back to normal.

their are a few other examples of similar situations from other people i believe as well.

I was on t3 myself for 12 weeks last summer and thyroid was fine after this.

I am not disputing anything that has been said as most of you are older and much more knowledgable than me. I am just saying i have seen some evidence that doesnt back up that t3 damages your thyroid permanantly.

path2greatness · Feb 6, 2009

Big Bapper said:
Everyone things clen is some wishy washy soft newbie drug. Its one of the most dangerous drugs bodybuilders use.IMO

The last time I used clen I only used 40-60mcg at the highest point and seemed to get almost the same results as the two previous higher dosed 2-3 wk runs I did(although admittedly this would be hard to know for sure without specific measurements). But the more I hear about the dangers of clen the more I think about flushing it(lets see who the first wise guy is saying "if you dont want it send it to me") I have not been using anything besides my trt lately and have been trying to play it safe so to speak. Prior to this, I wouldnt have thought twice about throwing in some clen. Would low dose t3 be easier on the body? How effective would it be by itself? Or maybe I should just stick to the ECA stack? I am not a competitor but I have very stubborn belly and kidney fat that I would love some assistance with

Big Bapper · Feb 7, 2009

ECA stack would be perfect.

Big Bapper · Feb 7, 2009

Massive G said:
Generally T3 is 5-8 times stronger when comparing the two -but in general endos use the 4:1 ratio meaning 25 mcgs would be equal to 100 mcg T4.
Rather than type it out in my own words I have some text that is applicable for the discussion-pasted from my files...

"T3 (triiodothyronine) T4 (thyroxine) are the main thyroid hormones. T3 is five to eight times as strong as T4 (taking into consideration that it's absorbed at a higher rate than T4), and it's biologically more active. T4 is like the food in your refrigerator, while T3 is like the food on your plate.

T4 is slow acting, with a half-life of about one week — after a week, you have about half the level of the T4 still in your body, a week or so later you have half of that half remaining, and so on. Its full effects aren't reached until about six weeks after starting or changing a dose, which is why lab tests are optimally done every six weeks or so until a patient with hypothyroidism has reached satisfactory and stable thyroid hormone levels. T3, on the other hand, has a half-life of about a day. People on T3 sometimes feel its effects within minutes after taking it.

A thyroid gland that functions normally produces T4 and T3. Twenty percent of the T3 circulating in the body comes directly from the thyroid gland, and the remaining 80 percent comes from conversion of T4. Because of this conversion process, most doctors prescribe only synthetic T4 medication (Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid, Eltroxin, Unithroid, and others). Many patients with hypothyroidism do fine on T4 only.

However, many others don't, and they need T3 supplementation in addition to T4. If the thyroid gland is malfunctioning and not producing enough — or any — T4, why assume that it still puts out enough T3, or that the body converts enough of its T4 to T3?"

There is also a potency issue with the synthetic T-4, and it is very sensitive to temp and storage conditions as well. Conversion is another game all together.

So you can see why T4 would shut you down if you did say 10 weeks of it it is going to take a while to achieve desirable blood levels but the T4 will be shutting down your thyroid because it will reduce TSH-which reduces the 20% or so of T3 your thyroid gland makes so it is lowering thyroid function, T3 is direct and fast and in and out so it even if on longer cycles and higher doses to a point -your thyroid gland will recover very quickly vs with T4 when you stop you still have it affecting they thyroid for 6-8 weeks.

Thats what I said T3 is faster acting so it would shut you down quicker. In the study they use the ratio of T3 5-8 times stronger than T4.

Big Bapper · Feb 7, 2009

hilly2008 said:
I no their is always alot of info on the net saying t3 can damage thyroid etc permanantly. However i am a member on uk-muscle.co.uk and a competitor on their was on t3 for several months and got his thyroid checked after 6-8 weeks and it was back to normal.

their are a few other examples of similar situations from other people i believe as well.

I was on t3 myself for 12 weeks last summer and thyroid was fine after this.

I am not disputing anything that has been said as most of you are older and much more knowledgable than me. I am just saying i have seen some evidence that doesnt back up that t3 damages your thyroid permanantly.

I have never seen or heard of anything to back up T3 supplemention can shut your own production down permanantly.

Massive G · Feb 7, 2009

Big Bapper said:
Thats what I said T3 is faster acting so it would shut you down quicker. In the study they use the ratio of T3 5-8 times stronger than T4.

sorry I thought we were talking about long term suppression-I agree on the recovery with the T3.
Many people experiment with T4 because of that jack ass AR's article and it's gonna get some one in the end...fuck up their thyroid.
GH is what got mine, I think I used clen and T3 like 1 time in my life and ephedrine 2-3 times...

BTW the endo had me on 600 mcgs of T4 and my thyrod levels were still low-free T3 and TSH.

The problem is it has to be taken on an empty stomach with plenty of water as many things affect its conversion.

I take mine at 3 am or 4 am when ever I pop up during the night and I take 100 mcgs of T4 as me in the high end normal range...

and there is a batch to batch difference over the years many problems in potency...so imagine getting this stuff off an internet pharm...

**broken link removed**

Big Bapper · Feb 7, 2009

Intresting read thank you.

Would the middle of the night be the best time to use T3 along with water. I use cytomel pre contest and take it about 1 hour before breakfast. I would be drinking water anyway did never knew it was that important for its use.

Massive G · Feb 7, 2009

Big Bapper said:
Intresting read thank you.

Would the middle of the night be the best time to use T3 along with water. I use cytomel pre contest and take it about 1 hour before breakfast. I would be drinking water anyway did never knew it was that important for its use.

You can take T3 anytime of the day with or with out food, as it is already converted-some do take it on an empty stomach for increased potency though as some might be lost in the digestion of a large meal.

If I could go back and change things I would have done 12.5 25 mcgs of T3 with my GH cycles to avoid the shutdown it caused-

path2greatness · Feb 7, 2009

Massive G said:
You can take T3 anytime of the day with or with out food, as it is already converted-some do take it on an empty stomach for increased potency though as some might be lost in the digestion of a large meal.

If I could go back and change things I would have done 12.5 25 mcgs of T3 with my GH cycles to avoid the shutdown it caused-

I'm assuming the GH cycles that you refer to as having caused your permanent suppression were more than 2-4 ius? Do you think even a lower amount such as this would put someone at risk?