Tbol oral only and other supplements- advice wanted

[22rob22]

Hello all

Basically i need to remain lean for several sports, boxing :srt-smietc. I also enjoy the running and lifting.... And of course getting looks off the females this is probably my biggest motivation when training haha

i'm probably <10% bf

Training...

boxing/Muay Thai-mainly consists of cardio but includes strength training- 3/4 times pw

home gym, got about 100kg in barbel weights and adjustable dumbells (im not rich, its a sh1tty basement)- 2 times pw

Diet
I always eat clean, its not regimented, 5 or 6 meals tends to suit me better than 3 square a day. Also i might be breaking all the rules, but i tend not to have "dinner" i'll have a 200kcal shake with virtually no carbs at least 2-3 hrs before bed. I generally try to stay away from large amounts of carbs. it seems to work ok for me so slightly keto in that respect. i have the occasional bad day, but i doubt that i'm alone there, PIZZA followed by CHOCOLATE

I have only ever run oral only cycles, mainly Var, 16weeks once, i had bloodwork done,all came back fine, used liv protection and even though it doesnt aromatise i ran pct as well.

Anyway

My goal is lowest possible bf% muscle hardness and i want to be unbelievably vascular.

I have just started an oral only Tbol cycle :de:il-smi (please dont flame me for this, i will use jabs one day)


Planning on running 40mg ed, but due to a mix up from my source ive also ended up with 100 5mg pink dbols, i know the are for bulking but is there any way that i can incorporate these in the cycle, i mean no water retention with t bol and lots with dbol, would this make me retain water, could proviron prevent this?
it just seems a waste to have them sat there

If i ran just the Tbol, then i should run Aromasin anyway to help with my test levels right???
(i only ran proviron with the var to help with libido, i know this stops production of estrogen not just block it, but did this up my test levels when i was on also? like i said i ran pct though)

could i use one or a combination of the the below to help with bloat
or gyno if i ran Dbol as well?

Also..Does anyonyone know if Aromasin ran on its own would do anything significant?

I've tried proviron on its own for a few weeks, basically no improvement (maybe helped me diet a bit easier oh and i was horny all the time)


I have got nolva(tamoxifen), Aromasin and provirion on hand.


Previously i have only used creatine as a supplement with my cycles.

this time round i have

Creatine, Taurine, Arginine and niacin (vitamin B3)

My main question is what quantities and when should i take these in order to achieve my goals (pumps and vascular all the time)

I took 1 100mg of vitamin B3, and i felt flustered hot and itchy for about 10 mins That went away then i became pumped and veiny...I googled it and it turns out vitamin B3 opens up your capillaries which increases bloodflow to other areas or something like that, so the itchyness was created by my body releasing histamines because all of these toxins were in my blood and the vitamin B3 got rid of them. so if u wanna be instantly veiny and pumped its b3 all the way.

But i wanna be pumped and veiny all the time, i know that a combo of the above four can achieve this, i just dont know in what measures and when to take etc Does anyone have the answer to this one?

I would be so greatfull



sidenote- **if anyone has any suggestions of type of inj steroid for my next cycle then i'm all ears, but i need to remain fast on my feet without overly dramatic gains, this is why i love mild orals (especially Var), i heard test will give me bloat and too much muscle, my hairline is slightly receding, im 23 and var has been kind to my hairline. HGH i haven't looked into too much, could that be an option.
In short... I need STRENGTH with little/medium gains.

**Last question... what non steroid would be best to run alongside a long (12wks) Var only cycle to help with natural Test levels e.g. tamoxifen, Aromasin, provirion is there any others?**


FINALLY YOU HAVE REACHED THE END

Thanks for your patience, now that you have read my life story, please if you reply, don't just send abuse if i have made a mistake, i'm not an expert (but i'm far from a beginner) and i want to gain even more knowledge to be able to improve and achieve my goals (that's why we're all here)

constructive criticism is welcome though

I know that post is full of questions, but so is my head, i just thought u guys might have a better idea than some of my 130lb mates haha

 

[TractionIssues]

There is so many things wrong with this post, but I am about to go to bed, but all I can say is you should really have posted this BEFORE starting your tbol only cycle, you are getting ahead of yourself, and your impatience will cost you.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you should stop right now, and just take a little while to properly research, and plan a proper cycle and pct, and be informed BEFORE jumping into these things. Steroids are not a joke, and that is not the way to use them.

 

[BigEnough]

Post in the beginers fourm man.

 

[22rob22]

WELL,

firstly....THANKS FOR ALL THE :spam:

secondly, if anyone would like to tell me what is wrong with the post or answer any questions then that would be great.

This isn't something that i have just jumped into, believe it or not... it is planned.

as i said "i'm not an expert (but i'm far from a beginner"

All i really want is answers to questions, and the answers to come from people who have lots of AAS experience, i thought this was the right place to find help... all i get is 10 posts of :spam: (whichich i am going to try and delete now, if i can't is there any Mod/Admin out there that can delete these posts as i feel that this is a serious thread, which i was hoping that i may receive some help with!!!!!

 

[22rob22]

I know my first post was messy and dis-organized. I'm not the most articulate person ever, but i try my best.



You must also understand what i said initially, which is that i need Strength gains without loads of mass.


I am not a BB

I believe that using steroids in a responsible manner is very important and although my needs are different to a lot of other AAS users (Bodybuilders), nonetheless I still require help and would like a little further insight as to problems with my post and possibly some answers to my questions, if i missed anything out or you need anymore stats from me to be able to answer then that's fine.

@TractionIssues. I also have taken a very long time to research...infact it was approximately 1 year between making the decision to use AAS untill my very first 10mg var dose. with a lot of research done looking into safety ( being quite young atm, i plan on sticking around for a while)

 

[richiec]

Planning on running 40mg ed, but due to a mix up from my source ive also ended up with 100 5mg pink dbols, i know the are for bulking but is there any way that i can incorporate these in the cycle, i mean no water retention with t bol and lots with dbol, would this make me retain water, could proviron prevent this?
it just seems a waste to have them sat there
If i ran just the Tbol, then i should run Aromasin anyway to help with my test levels right???


My main question is what quantities and when should i take these in order to achieve my goals (pumps and vascular all the time)


sidenote- **if anyone has any suggestions of type of inj steroid for my next cycle then i'm all ears, but i need to remain fast on my feet without overly dramatic gains, this is why i love mild orals (especially Var), i heard test will give me bloat and too much muscle,. HGH i haven't looked into too much, could that be an option. In short... I know that post is full of questions, but so is my head, i just thought u guys might have a better idea than some of my 130lb mates haha

1st Bold - send them to me because yes, you will get bloated and if you don't want that, I will take them off your hands.

2nd Bold -
Do not ask us to set up a cycle for you. We do not know enough particulars about you, your activity level, body composition, or nutritional and rest habits to give you adequate advise. DO THE RESEARCH, then post your proposed cycle and let us critique it. THIS IS FROM THE RULES SECTION WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE READ MORE THAN ONCE

3rd Bold - I answered this question in your last thread! :banghead: I'm sorry, was that answer not good enough for you? Don't want dramatic gains, use prop, not a lot of water, use prop. Pretty cut and dry! :banghead:

4th Bold - see above

5th Bold - Don't even think about using GH!!! Why would you jump from var to gh?


And btw, you need to take MORE TIME to do your research. You said you took over a yr to do research before you did anything, well NO YOU DIDN'T. See, guys like you come and go on this forum all the time. You say you've done all the research and you're ready to take the leap. You've done no research except maybe a google search and read the top 2 results and take that as 100% accuracy. You want people to give you an answer that you want to hear. You want someone to tell you your little cycle is the best thing ever and you're doing it right. Well, you're not and the advice you've gotten has gone in one ear and out the other.

 

[BigEnough]

I think you think you know more than you do... Someone that's "far from a beginner" wouldn't need to ask these simple questions. We don't spoon feed here, All of this can be found with the search button.

BTW you ran 16 weeks of Var and your bloodwork came back fine? It wasn't Var or you're not human.

 

[richiec]

I think you think you know more than you do... Someone that's "far from a beginner" wouldn't need to ask these simple questions. We don't spoon feed here, All of this can be found with the search button.

BTW you ran 16 weeks of Var and your bloodwork came back fine? It wasn't Var or you're not human.

I'm gonna go with it wasn't var

 

[22rob22]

I'll try to better explain better

First of all, thank-you for taking the time to respond

1st Bold - send them to me because yes, you will get bloated and if you don't want that, I will take them off your hands.

2nd Bold -
Do not ask us to set up a cycle for you. We do not know enough particulars about you, your activity level, body composition, or nutritional and rest habits to give you adequate advise. DO THE RESEARCH, then post your proposed cycle and let us critique it. THIS IS FROM THE RULES SECTION WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE READ MORE THAN ONCE

3rd Bold - I answered this question in your last thread! :banghead: I'm sorry, was that answer not good enough for you? Don't want dramatic gains, use prop, not a lot of water, use prop. Pretty cut and dry! :banghead:

4th Bold - see above

5th Bold - Don't even think about using GH!!! Why would you jump from var to gh?


And btw, you need to take MORE TIME to do your research. You said you took over a yr to do research before you did anything, well NO YOU DIDN'T. See, guys like you come and go on this forum all the time. You say you've done all the research and you're ready to take the leap. You've done no research except maybe a google search and read the top 2 results and take that as 100% accuracy. You want people to give you an answer that you want to hear. You want someone to tell you your little cycle is the best thing ever and you're doing it right. Well, you're not and the advice you've gotten has gone in one ear and out the other.

Each "bold" paragraph below explains the question i was asking


1st bold - "it just seems a waste to have them sat there" was referring to adding dbol in my cycle, i had read before that someone had tried 10mg ed while on a tbol only cycle without bloat, i wanted others opinions as to whether this could be possible and maybe even a dosage suggestion


2nd Bold - "My main question is what quantities and when should i take these in order to achieve my goals (pumps and vascular all the time)"

This is out of context I was not asking anyone to create a cycle for me, the question was regarding Creatine, Taurine, Arginine and niacin (vitamin B3) NOT AAS, having done research i have found that these are all good for pumps but there is hardly any info on the combinations & quantities for best results.

3rd Bold - "if anyone has any suggestions of type of inj steroid for my next cycle then i'm all ears, but i need to remain fast on my feet without overly dramatic gains"
My apologies, i missed that part of the post as i was focussed on the hairloss issue that you also mentioned in that post, i will do some research into test prop...Thank you.


4th Bold - "i heard test will give me bloat and too much muscle" As above, again my apologies

5th Bold - "HGH i haven't looked into too much, could that be an option"
From the information i have read about gh, it seems to have many benefits, apart from if you abuse it, then there are serious consequences. a lot of athletes seem to use GH, thats why i asked if that could be an option?


your last comment-

You have just made false assumptions, i am on this forum because i would like opinions and advice that will help me achieve my goals....

Not because "i want people to give me an answer i want to hear" or because i want people to tell me "My little cycle is the best thing ever"

you said the advice i have been given has gone in one ear and out of the other, it would seem that i've been given one piece of advice from you about the test prop, which i missed and have apologized for.

your last post seems like you want to make me out to be a person lacks any knowledge whatsoever. This is not the case. I never said i did a year of research, i have read a lot of information, but i am not some steroid guru either, hence me being here moved to the beginners section

Also...BigEnough, it was bloodtests due to other reasons (insomnia over 10yrs and no meds working),it was apprx one month after cycle, everything checked apart from cholesterol, and all came back normal, sorry i didnt mention that

40-50mg ed. A v.reputable ugl



I have asked reasonable questions, and hoped for reasonable answers.

If anyone could answer BOLD2 regarding Creatine, Taurine, Arginine and niacin (vitamin B3) i would be very great full

Let me finish by saying that being a new member here, i really don't want to get off on the wrong foot. and by the looks of this thread thats where i'm headed. i have said before i'm not the most articulate person, but i will always try my best to explain everything as clearly as i can, i would prefer constructive critisism rather than flaming. If i have said something that is completely obsurd and ridiculous then i would deserve to be talked to like that, however i feel that your last comment about me was wrong, i understand there are lots of stupid people out there who post stupid pointless sh1t, but i am one who is seeking serious advice

Please dont take anything i have said personally, as i just wanted to try and explain the previous posts better

Your first post to me on the other thread was very informative and helpful, i am sorry that i missed that info u gave me.

 

[rochabp]

creatine mono not so much for pumps magensium creatine chelate is a very good creatine that i have personaly loved for pumps and overall strength, arginines does give pumps but they are nothing more than for aesthetic purposes wont help build muscle directly.

agmatine, GPLC, citrulline malate, vitamin C, epimedium, norvaline, glycerol all are good for pumps.

 

[22rob22]

Thats a bummer, as i bought the creatine mono, had the choice of about 5, mono was the cheapest @ £10/$15 for a kilo,

"arginines does give pumps but they are nothing more than for aesthetic purposes"

i have plently of the muscle building compounds but aesthetically pleasing is most definitely how i like to try and look haha, do you know if this will give me pumps/ or fill me out a bit when not lifting?

My main aim is long term pumped vascular look.

i couldn't believe the niacin(vit b3) i took 1 100mg pill and got really hot flushes and then veiny as hell for quite a while (not while working out) i looked a little deeper and the flushes/itching is due to the b3 opening up capillaries, therefore toxins get released followed by the histamines(which causes the itching), but then the pump was like WOW. and this is just a regular vitamin. i was quite shocked

thank you for those other suggestions, i will have a look into all of those, i currently have 4 different ones but there's no harm in adding more. which of those (apart from the creatine) have you tried or recommend is the best for longer lasting pumps?

Cheers
22

 

[rochabp]

Thats a bummer, as i bought the creatine mono, had the choice of about 5, mono was the cheapest @ £10/$15 for a kilo,

"arginines does give pumps but they are nothing more than for aesthetic purposes"

i have plently of the muscle building compounds but aesthetically pleasing is most definitely how i like to try and look haha, do you know if this will give me pumps/ or fill me out a bit when not lifting?

My main aim is long term pumped vascular look.

i couldn't believe the niacin(vit b3) i took 1 100mg pill and got really hot flushes and then veiny as hell for quite a while (not while working out) i looked a little deeper and the flushes/itching is due to the b3 opening up capillaries, therefore toxins get released followed by the histamines(which causes the itching), but then the pump was like WOW. and this is just a regular vitamin. i was quite shocked

thank you for those other suggestions, i will have a look into all of those, i currently have 4 different ones but there's no harm in adding more. which of those (apart from the creatine) have you tried or recommend is the best for longer lasting pumps?

Cheers
22

i dont think arginine will give pumps without working out
maybe if you were to do a set or two, but from my experience arginine plus vitamin C is a killer combo, vitamin C is super cheap and greatly extends the duration of the pump, i believe vitamin C has the ability to keep the enzyme NOS from "dying". try arginine, agmatine, norvaline and vitamin C combined should give plenty good pumps. but you might have to do atleast a set or two everyonce in a while

 

[richiec]

@TractionIssues. I also have taken a very long time to research...infact it was approximately 1 year between making the decision to use AAS untill my very first 10mg var dose. with a lot of research done looking into safety ( being quite young atm, i plan on sticking around for a while)

You wrote this, I guess I read it wrong?

Nobody is going to be able to give you the best combos of these things as each person is different. What works for me may not work for you and not for person C.

Yes, GH has many benefits! You want to take it to lose weight, right? Why not just tweek your diet to drop the bf you don't want instead of taking a hormone? Hire a trainer from here, (phil hernon, alex azarian, mainevent, shelby) they'll help you acheive your goals faster than you will on your own and you won't have to keep guessing.

I stand by what I said about your research. It's evident by your 16 week oral cycle that you either didn't do any research except a quick Google search (as you would have learned how F'ing stupid that is) or you don't give a shit about what people say. I'm going with the first choice. If you had any knowledge, you would know how harsh orals are on the liver and you should NEVER run them for 16 weeks!

So, HIRE A TRAINER. They will give you everything you need

 

[22rob22]

I stand by what I said about your research. It's evident by your 16 week oral cycle that you either didn't do any research except a quick Google search (as you would have learned how F'ing stupid that is) or you don't give a shit about what people say. I'm going with the first choice. If you had any knowledge, you would know how harsh orals are on the liver and you should NEVER run them for 16 weeks!

So, HIRE A TRAINER. They will give you everything you need

My liver is fine....
( the title of the post is ANAVAR ADDICT) i am not saying that i was right to run the var for 16wks, but it was an informed decision at the time after reading varying information from various sources.




Whilst researching, i found that anavar has the mildest effect on the liver of all the oral steroids, and had also read numerous accounts of people with plenty of AAS experience running anavar for extended periods with no problems, some also debate if a pct is necessary (on shorter cycles) . if i find these links (and maybe even dig up some stats) and post them would you then consider the fact that i may not be this imbecile that you seem to seem to take me for and stop flaming me every time i post.....DEAL?

I dont want to spend my time arguing, i would rather spend it talking with people about you know...nice things (not how stupid you think i am)

@TractionIssues. I also have taken a very long time to research...infact it was approximately 1 year between making the decision to use AAS untill my very first 10mg var dose. with a lot of research done looking into safety ( being quite young atm, i plan on sticking around for a while)

You wrote this, I guess I read it wrong?

Yes i wrote that, and yes you read it wrong, because there was a one year gap between me making the decision to use steroids and actually using them does not mean i spent one year solid researching AAS. However if you are referring to the "sticking around for a while" part then you need to know that it was an informed decision made after around the 8-9 week mark due to various pieces of information from various sources. there were no sides throughout the cycle.



with regards to the Gh comment, you are right about the diet i could tweak it, its mainly a keto sort of diet, tapering carbs towards the end of the day ( i could make some slight improvements). However my reasons for taking GH would be pretty much all the benefits that it has (including spot reducing fat on injection sites) I have decided against the GH route, you are right the main reason is fat and thats nothing diet cant fix

I don't keep guessing at anything, i am close friends with more than one personal trainer. They and I are happy with my nutrition and varied workout regimes

As ive said before im currently <10% bf and quite happy, when the sun decides to come out for any length of time i might whip out the t3 as i have run that before with excellent results. oh and i will never stack it with clen agian CLEN IS THE DEVIL

p.s half of your last post included suggestions as to the tweaking the diet part. those are the kind of suggestions that are helpful and i dont consider flaming.

cheers

22

 

[jrod]

Hey man you might wanna check anabolictemple.com they have put together a couple of fighter cycles together i wouldnt order from them cause they are kinda high on theyre prices but it will give you a good idea on what you need to buy for what your looking to do

 

[22rob22]

thanks jrod, i checked it out, it looks like they only deliver within the usa...im not there

 

[jrod]

Yeah i forgot u were in the uk but it was worth checking them out for look at the gear and doseage for fighters cycle

 

[rochabp]

thanks jrod, i checked it out, it looks like they only deliver within the usa...im not there

your in UK?

is Gear legal over there are the laws similar to the ones in USA?

and is biogen in UK?

can someone enlighten me?

thanks in advanced

 

[22rob22]

yeah im in uk, its a bit of a "grey" area over here, its legal to posses and (i think) buy steroids. however it is illegal for people to sell them here, not sure whether biogen is a uk lab, but ive deffo heard that name thrown around.

Now could you enlighten me as to the laws in the usa, not because i need to know or anything...just interested


cheers
22

 

[tri-terror]

If you are hell bent on running the tbol, I wouldn't do it for more than 8 weeks. You may have gotten away with var for 16 weeks, but I wouldn't chance it with any other oral.

The suggestion you got about prop is probably the best idea. You will get strength, and muscle(if you eat for it) and it will not make hold water like an oral will. In fact you will most likely hold a decent amount of water on tbol. Less than dbol, but still some. Prop would be minimal and you could run it as long as you want.

As far as you being pumped and vascular ALL THE TIME, that is impossible. Seriously.
A "pump" is a function of your muscle being full of blood. Unless you're doing some activity you are not going to be sitting around pumped all day long. Vascularity is a matter of body fat level and genetics. You look lean enough that you should already be pretty veiny if you have any.