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Thoughts on this ( gear related )

madg

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In my experience Euro guys just take the same stuff. I am not counting the UK as that is just like the US and most just take high doses of everything. Perhaps things were very different 20 years ago but in the last decade from my experience most take the same sort of cycles. Yes certain people do experiments with high deca, high eq, high tren and mod/low or even no test but it's not done on a geographical basis. I know some French, Swiss and Polish bodybuilders for example and they all take the same sort of things. I saw Ruhl was mentioned and I know someone who was told by a top source (come from Ruhl himself) that he took massive doses of test. Many don't like high test but plenty still use it at around 500-1000mg even if they don't rate it and use high doses of other aids. Most Euro guys I have asked take very high doses of test when growing and even in prep.

The ppl who taught me this are all 55+ now elvia

And believe me back then noone was pushing 1 g test
 

madg

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I’m a fan of high test and test I’m general so I’m biased. Why do you think so many guys on the internet atleast are against higher doses of test? Do you think someone can become a monster or a freak without high test?

It depends what you consider a freak

But modern ifbb status cant be achieved on this style
 

madg

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It was an interesting read and he seems to mention "health" a few times. No way is anyone going to have a healthy lipid profile while using Tren, Winstrol, Anavar, and 2.5mg of Letro daily. Most people would be lucky to have an HDL of 6 on those compounds combined.

Every trainer i have met says his way is the healthiest haha
 

madg

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I always like to read different perspectives, as there are many and they change over time.

This guy lost me when he called anavar androgenic and of course the estrogen is evil thing...

Not all is corect hawk like with all things in this game
 

madg

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This very old school is covered in this article. I have not seen anyone apply such practices and I am from Europe, specifically from Poland, and no one uses a low test here. Various trends were known, e.g. when gh15 was triumphant then many people tried, for example, low test and high trenbolone but most still use basic cycles.
As for the test, I do not know anyone from a super heavyweight who used less than 1.2-1.5 g. Average is 1.5g, guys who weigh 290+ pounds for offseason usually use 1.5-2g of test a week, and real freaks of 320+ pounds at 2.5-3.5g. And I know a lot of bodybuilders also from abroad, and really no one who is large in size does low test

This guys are now 55+ luki , we not talking modern BBing

And belive me many of these guys puting 300 lb monsters to shame
 

madg

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If you don't want to be a great bodybuilder, just play toxic drugs and experiment? there are people who prefer short esters and 7-8 week cycles, but then it looks like this

base that is on all the time
test 1g + 800mg EQ

7-8 week cycle (the above base is still here)
1-8 test prop 150mg ed
1-8 tren ace 100mg ed
1-6 androl 150mg ed

and we go back for 3-5 weeks to the "base" and then cycle again, any approach will work

Again this is for modern mass monster status

I never said you can be monster on this
 

madg

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First of all thank you Madg for share the info, we can agree or disagree but for sure open a debate.

I am from EU, nowaday everyone can enter on a forum or looking for info online, even if your english is awful we have tools like google translator. So right now globalization makes that every country takes a similar approach but years ago was different.

I'm not old (I think so) but I started on a "hardcore" gym 12 years ago. I was a teenager then but people in that gym was friendly and supportive. They talk abut what they used to do. Keep in mind that I am not talking about national competitors just "common" gym goers and some amateur bodybuilder.

In my country was kind of easy to buy on a pharmacy primobolan, deca, proviron, winstrol and sometimes test (testoviron). So people do a lot of deca, winstrol and primo. Proviron here and there and test sometimes but Deca, winstrol and primo all three together or two of them was the basic. Because that was easy to find and because AI were expensive and high dose of test without AI tends to bloat.

Now people do the same that you can see in any forum, reddit and whatever.

Hello my brother , this is true you write

High test came with the internet boards and steroid ban

Dealers can make more from selling test ,its the cheapest raw

In 80s ppl was taking test only if not have money lol
 

madg

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FYI:

Scroll down to see the article posted here:


From the first part of what's posted in the link there, it was from someone who went by "RealGains."

-S

Hello scot, is an honor talking to you

This is from netherlands trainer , realgains just posted it
 

madg

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Well, I believe he was only talking about 2-3 weeks cycles so not a long time with crashed lipids potentially. I don't think I could make it 3 weeks on that dose of AI without sides, my joints hurt just thinking about it lol.

I believe blood work access was much different than now, at least in the USA. Most states as you all know allow us to get labs when we want without dr. orders. I am not sure if the situation was as easy in europe during the 90's. What I am getting at is there was a chance lots were walking around with horrible lipids and had no idea.

Exactly!

3 weeks on tren +var+winny+ npp or 16 weeks on high test + ai ??

Same shit diferent day imo

In 3 weeks not much damage can be done
 

madg

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I remember RealGains. He started on the forums in the earlier 2000's. I knew him from EF (on their women's forum) and then from CEM. The 2-0n-2-off and 4-on-4-off cycles were popular in the 90's, then came back up again in the early-mid 2000's on the forums. They have some merit, but usually the writer's, or those pushing them, got into trouble when they started implementing them with the claim that the HPGA axis would be restored by the next blast, which was found impossible, at least for most, even with HCG/clomid, etc. I know Animal was part of dispelling them on both occasions, at least in part of HPGA recovery. I know the Minto study was used a lot for research purposes in all of it, as well as 1-2 others, during that time. I can't remember what happened to RG, he fizzled away with a lot of people from the forums. I think he started following Swale the last I heard (after CEM), and then i'm not sure what happened to him. He may of had a wife on the forums too, IIRC, but i'd have to follow up on that, lol.

Sorry Homon, just speaking out loud thinking back, I know you were just trying to point out who wrote what:)

Thats the guy , good man too
 

madg

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It doesn't make any sense the HPTA would recover, even with acetate esters the drug would build up enough with high doses guys would use on mini cycles that it's at least 2-3 weeks for the tren to be out of your system enough for recovery to even START. If not longer than 2-3 weeks, but according to the Euro-Gurus you're recovered and time to blast 100mg tren/day again. LOL

The short cycle with 3-5 weeks off is just a version of blast/cruise. The "cruise" is the off cycle which in actuality is a taper period where the drug is still ACTIVE but clearing.

There have been all sorts of theories about recovery and androgen receptor sensitivity and myostatin. It's all BS imo. Muscle takes years to grow. More time under an optimized hormonal environment is what you need to try to push to your genetic limit.

PS I love everything else Madg has posted and I think he is a valuable member of ProM

I love you too man and i like this kind of discusions
 

totalrecomp

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Exactly!

3 weeks on tren +var+winny+ npp or 16 weeks on high test + ai ??

Same shit diferent day imo

In 3 weeks not much damage can be done

Assuming we can get the lipids back to normal quickly and verify with labs.
 

maldorf

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Exactly mal !!

The guy who taught me this wasnt using more than 1,5 g after 15 years career!
I had evolved to where I was just "on" for about 6 weeks max and then cruised for 6 weeks. Back on. Then I had my heart attack. :confused:
 

homonunculus

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Hello scot, is an honor talking to you

This is from netherlands trainer , realgains just posted it

Hey Madg,

Thanks for the kind words!

The post I linked, as far as I can tell, was posted 2010 - quite a while ago now. (Maybe the netherlands trainer just recently put it up again somewhere else?...)

-S
 

MR. BMJ

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Hey Madg,

Thanks for the kind words!

The post I linked, as far as I can tell, was posted 2010 - quite a while ago now. (Maybe the netherlands trainer just recently put it up again somewhere else?...)

-S

I think the top part of your link was written by RG, but the second article appears to have been written by a different person (the one madg posted). RG wrote a few board mini articles back in the day (mid-2000's) on the same topic, but the second article on the link doesn't look like his writing. I'm not sure if RG continued following that protocol after following swale's recommendations years later. Would be interesting to see him pop up and give his thoughts, but i've not seen him in many many years...like 10-15 years now.
 

MR. BMJ

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Actually, it looks like the articles may have been copied from Anabolic-Enhancement. I was a MOD at A-E for a few years before LiftsIron changed the name to Peak-Muscle a few years back. Lifts was a MOD at Nandi's CEM forum, and those articles may have been initially posted there by RG....then Lifts probably just copied them to A-E after that years later. Just a guess. CEM has been closed down for years now:(
 

Rot-Iron66

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I only started using gear (TRT+) at age 50, after 38 years of training natty. So I'm a huge fan of low doses and short cycles.
Lots of good info in the article, very easy to ignore some of the older outdated stuff in there as well.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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I enjoy these articles like the one madg posted. Must be a decade ago now but i remember when Muscular Development Magazine was still legit.
 

juggy38

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So like they would do like 700mg NPP for 6 weeks, 6 weeks off, 600 tren Ace 6/6....what about the long esters like primo and EQ? 6 weeks also?
 

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