Thyroid labs help

bigzzz · Jun 21, 2023

Black Beard said:
No, while on T3 at normal human doses, you will have lower nitrogen levels for the first 3 weeks which reverses on its own.

Nitrogen is one of the reasons AAS and HGH make us harder, pumped and 3D looking. Nitrogen and glycogen give you muscle hardness and shape

Hyperthyroidism messes with nitrogen and glycogen levels in skeletal muscle, that's why high dose T3 can make you flat.

Generally, T4 won't make you flat and optimal thyroid levels can improve protein synthesis. (Physiological doses 50-200 mcg daily)

Great, thanks!

Hyper-T · Jun 21, 2023

Your dose is likely on the low side for you bodyweight. 1.6 - 1.7mcg/kg bodyweight is a starting dose and many recommend 2mcg. That is of just t4 of course. Dessicated containing a mix of t3 and t4 can be better but everybatch you get will be different. The animals have seasonal variation in the amount produced and the ratios of t3 to t4. Usually if your tsh is in range the doctor is happy and doesn't adjust dose. 250mcg a day would likely put your tsh at 1.9 or 2 and you would feel much better.

qbkilla · Jun 21, 2023

Black Beard said:
Generally, +3 TSH and sub <1.2 Free T4 are clues of hypothyroidism, especially if 1. You have symptoms 2. Your Free T3 is also low.

Generally speaking though, on 3 IU GH i would expect something like a 1.02 ng/dl Free T4 with +3 pg/mL Free T3, i would also expect less energy directly from the 3 IU in some people.

Were you taking GH in the first two labs? GH will always drop Free T4 and increase free T3. Letting me know if you were on it for the first two labs will lead us in the right direction with what is going on.

Personally, after a while on daily GH, i can get some fatigue which goes away by switching to three times weekly for a while, so i switch back and forth.

I was on 3iu gh for all labs that's my standard dose. AAS is always 400mg, ...prop or half prop with something else added at times (200 prop 200 tren as example). All tests were in am fasted? Maybe get my own bloods and get t3 too? Doctor would not order t3.

Black Beard · Jun 21, 2023

Hyper-T said:
Your dose is likely on the low side for you bodyweight. 1.6 - 1.7mcg/kg bodyweight is a starting dose and many recommend 2mcg. That is of just t4 of course. Dessicated containing a mix of t3 and t4 can be better but everybatch you get will be different. The animals have seasonal variation in the amount produced and the ratios of t3 to t4. Usually if your tsh is in range the doctor is happy and doesn't adjust dose. 250mcg a day would likely put your tsh at 1.9 or 2 and you would feel much better.

Yep and my issue with NDT is that the ratio of T4 to T3 is not physiological in humans. Taking NDT will usually lower your Free T4 and Free T3 via negative feed back loop unless you take very high dosages which can make you hyperthyroid. Ideally, you take T4 only and convert enough (more likely when taking HGH) or a combo of T4 & T3 or T4 & NDT to achieve physiological levels of both hormones. (Like when you take very low dose testosterone like 30 mg per week; you will end up with levels lower than your natural baseline, both NDT and T3 can cause this)

qbkilla said:
I was on 3iu gh for all labs that's my standard dose. AAS is always 400mg, ...prop or half prop with something else added at times (200 prop 200 tren as example). All tests were in am fasted? Maybe get my own bloods and get t3 too? Doctor would not order t3.

I would give 5 IU MWF a shot for about 2 weeks and see how you feel. I bet you will feel amazing when that daily GH effect wears off. I usually feel better 1-2 days after skipping my daily GH dosage. Then you can increase to 7 IU MWF if it's working for you. You should get about the same IGF-1 increase with daily versus MWF as long as the weekly dose is about the same. Are you running AM or PM GH? SQ or IM? IM in the PM makes me extremely lethargic the next day unless it's 2 IU.

I would test your Free T3 always, because sometimes with lower Free T4 but with higher Free T3 to compensate, you can feel perfectly fine and excellent. I would try MWF GH for a week or two before messing with thyroid because it's very likely you just have daily GH fatigue which happens to me sometimes. This may be related to insulin resistance or GH/prolactin receptor stuff. If you try this, you should feel better within 2 days if it's your problem.

qbkilla · Jun 21, 2023

Black Beard said:
Yep and my issue with NDT is that the ratio of T4 to T3 is not physiological in humans. Taking NDT will usually lower your Free T4 and Free T3 via negative feed back loop unless you take very high dosages which can make you hyperthyroid. Ideally, you take T4 only and convert enough (more likely when taking HGH) or a combo of T4 & T3 or T4 & NDT to achieve physiological levels of both hormones. (Like when you take very low dose testosterone like 30 mg per week; you will end up with levels lower than your natural baseline, both NDT and T3 can cause this)

I would give 5 IU MWF a shot for about 2 weeks and see how you feel. I bet you will feel amazing when that daily GH effect wears off. I usually feel better 1-2 days after skipping my daily GH dosage. Then you can increase to 7 IU MWF if it's working for you. You should get about the same IGF-1 increase with daily versus MWF as long as the weekly dose is about the same. Are you running AM or PM GH? SQ or IM? IM in the PM makes me extremely lethargic the next day unless it's 2 IU.

I would test your Free T3 always, because sometimes with lower Free T4 but with higher Free T3 to compensate, you can feel perfectly fine and excellent. I would try MWF GH for a week or two before messing with thyroid because it's very likely you just have daily GH fatigue which happens to me sometimes. This may be related to insulin resistance or GH/prolactin receptor stuff. If you try this, you should feel better within 2 days if it's your problem.

Thank you. I can say the tiredness has been for years to be honest, even at times when I didn't use gh. At first thought it was due to low sodium (drinking too much water) or lack of sleep but those have been corrected still tired. But I will try the change in gh usage. I do IM always. Am pre cardio on off days then before bed in weights days.

Black Beard · Jun 21, 2023

qbkilla said:
Thank you. I can say the tiredness has been for years to be honest, even at times when I didn't use gh. At first thought it was due to low sodium (drinking too much water) or lack of sleep but those have been corrected still tired. But I will try the change in gh usage. I do IM always. Am pre cardio on off days then before bed in weights days.

IM makes me tired as fuck AM or PM. The way i use it when i do MWF is SQ AM. I can't use IM anymore without serious mental and physical fatigue. IM gives you a really sharp unphysiological spike.

I'd give the MWF SQ AM a shot for a week or two and if no improvement, look at that thyroid. Low ferritin is also another common cause of fatigue i see, as well as low carb diet.

qbkilla · Jun 21, 2023

Black Beard said:
IM makes me tired as fuck AM or PM. The way i use it when i do MWF is SQ AM. I can't use IM anymore without serious mental and physical fatigue. IM gives you a really sharp unphysiological spike.

I'd give the MWF SQ AM a shot for a week or two and if no improvement, look at that thyroid. Low ferritin is also another common cause of fatigue i see, as well as low carb diet.

Thank you I will adjust. Ferretin was in range and iron I checked them. I do drink energy drinks (1-2 0 calorie) because I don't like coffee in the summer, not sure if that ties in lol. Carbs are between 100 on off days to 350 on workout days.

Black Beard · Jun 21, 2023

qbkilla said:
Thank you I will adjust. Ferretin was in range and iron I checked them. I do drink energy drinks (1-2 0 calorie) because I don't like coffee in the summer, not sure if that ties in lol. Carbs are between 100 on off days to 350 on workout days.

Is the energy drink providing the same amount of caffeine?

The answer is likely in the thyroid and/or the GH frequency. Generally a Free T4 of 1 or less with a low Free T3 (usually under 3.2) w/ symptoms is indicative of hypothyroidism and you had high TSH levels in the past, so that's another sign thyroid might be wonky, but we need Free T3 for the full picture, but IM GH and sometimes daily SQ destroys my energy

qbkilla · Jul 1, 2023

Thyroid Test Panel with TSH - HealthLabs.com

The best way to test thyroid function is to measure TSH, T3 uptake, T4 and T7. These tests help determine if your thyroid is functioning properly.

www.healthlabs.com

Would this be the test to get a look at thyroid? I see it has a t3 test, but does anyone know if that is the correct one?

RandomMachine · Jul 1, 2023

Just throwing out my recent experience with T3/T4 in the event that it helps anyone. I had bottom of the range free T3 and low total T4 using GH. Had been feeling pretty fatigued for awhile so I decided to see what bumping those levels up would do for me.

I tried T3 from 12.5 up to 37.5mcg along with T4 at 100mcg.

Not sure if I'm super sensitive to T3 or what. My resting heart rate on 100mcg of T4 is 60. Using T3 at the levels above raised it from 60 to 90. Huge increase in appetite as well. Would venture to say I felt weaker in the gym also. Like my muscles fatigued out early in a session. Never really felt any better fatigue wise. The only thing positive I found was that I didn't feel cold all the time anymore.

I had hoped just going down to T4 only for a few weeks would raise my TSH back up, but it's still at 0 on the most recent blood test. Everything I've read led me to believe it would have picked back up. Know I've read people here saying they had normal TSH levels on T4 only. Guess that doesn't pan out in my case.

nothuman · Jul 1, 2023

nothuman said:
I take a 25mcg/12.5mcg T4/T3 tab that I split in half and take in two doses each day. This is the best I have felt from a thyroid standpoint in years. TSH 1.4, FT4 1.2, FT3 3.2

Worth mentioning I felt like shit again after posting this.

Still adjusting my dosages to feel better. Now trying 100mcg T4 with 12.5mcg

@Black Beard any advice? Off thyroid hormones, I had a normal TSH (1.5) and FT4 (1.4) but a lower FT (2.7) and heavily symptomatic. Idk if you care about rT3 but that was always around 20-24.

I have a ton of knowledge when it comes to thyroid but I can never seem to find a dose I can maintain the elimination of symptoms on.

nothuman · Jul 1, 2023

Black Beard said:
Shutdown is person dependent, but yes, taking exogenous T3 will lower your endogenous Free T4/Free T3. T3 is more suppressive than T4. Taking low doses of T4 usually adds to your own production, but T3 can sometimes lower both your Free T4/Free T3 via negative feed back loop, like taking very low dose testosterone can make you end up with lower levels than you started with.

I've seen some people take 5-15 mcg without shutdown, it depends on the person. If you take it, you need to test your Free T4/Free T3 before and after you start, and note that T4 has a half life of about 7 days, so the shutdown can take a few weeks to see on paper.

I have seen my FT3 go down from taking too much T3 when I was on T3 monotherapy. Most people don’t know this can happen so you’re one of the few people I’ve seen acknowledge this can actually happen

Black Beard · Jul 1, 2023

nothuman said:
Worth mentioning I felt like shit again after posting this.

Still adjusting my dosages to feel better. Now trying 100mcg T4 with 12.5mcg

@Black Beard any advice? Off thyroid hormones, I had a normal TSH (1.5) and FT4 (1.4) but a lower FT (2.7) and heavily symptomatic. Idk if you care about rT3 but that was always around 20-24.

I have a ton of knowledge when it comes to thyroid but I can never seem to find a dose I can maintain the elimination of symptoms on.

Generally, most will be symptom free with Free T4 1.4-1.8 ng/dL and with 5-15 mcg T3.

If that doesnt solve it, it's most likely something else causing the symptoms

Its a myth that RT3 blocks receptors, its basically inert. It's the smoke, not the fire. In illness, stress or inflammation states, the body will divert more T4 into RT3 instead of T3.

What are your main symptoms you suspect might be thyroid?

Black Beard · Jul 1, 2023

qbkilla said:
Thyroid Test Panel with TSH - HealthLabs.com

The best way to test thyroid function is to measure TSH, T3 uptake, T4 and T7. These tests help determine if your thyroid is functioning properly.

www.healthlabs.com

Would this be the test to get a look at thyroid? I see it has a t3 test, but does anyone know if that is the correct one?

Absolutely not, you only need TSH FREE T4 FREE T3

Bonus if you want to test antibodies tpo, etc

Black Beard · Jul 1, 2023

RandomMachine said:
Just throwing out my recent experience with T3/T4 in the event that it helps anyone. I had bottom of the range free T3 and low total T4 using GH. Had been feeling pretty fatigued for awhile so I decided to see what bumping those levels up would do for me.

I tried T3 from 12.5 up to 37.5mcg along with T4 at 100mcg.

Not sure if I'm super sensitive to T3 or what. My resting heart rate on 100mcg of T4 is 60. Using T3 at the levels above raised it from 60 to 90. Huge increase in appetite as well. Would venture to say I felt weaker in the gym also. Like my muscles fatigued out early in a session. Never really felt any better fatigue wise. The only thing positive I found was that I didn't feel cold all the time anymore.

I had hoped just going down to T4 only for a few weeks would raise my TSH back up, but it's still at 0 on the most recent blood test. Everything I've read led me to believe it would have picked back up. Know I've read people here saying they had normal TSH levels on T4 only. Guess that doesn't pan out in my case.

Hey, you might be one of the people who only needs T4. Many people wont need T3, and they will feel poorly on it. Optimal thyroid hormone levels will improve muscle function, too much and too little will decrease strength, endurance, explosiveness and recovery.

Use T4 only, every 4 weeks test FREE T4 , increase dose until you get into the optimal range 1.4-1.8 ng/dL. If you still have symptoms, add 5-10 mcg T3. (Must test Free T4 not total)

Thyroid hormones are analogous to coffee; there is a sweet spot, too little and no effect , too much and you willl feel like shit; stressed and anxious. (Both can work partially through beta receptors; adrenaline noradrenaline)

qbkilla · Jul 1, 2023

Black Beard said:
Absolutely not, you only need TSH FREE T4 FREE T3

Bonus if you want to test antibodies tpo, etc

It looks like they have a t3 and free t3, so I would want the free t3 correct?

Black Beard · Jul 1, 2023

qbkilla said:
It looks like they have a t3 and free t3, so I would want the free t3 correct?

Yep, grab the cheapest panel or individual tests that only contain TSH, FREE T4, FREE T3. The rest is bullshit.

Crazy_jay · Jul 1, 2023

nothuman said:
Worth mentioning I felt like shit again after posting this.

Still adjusting my dosages to feel better. Now trying 100mcg T4 with 12.5mcg

@Black Beard any advice? Off thyroid hormones, I had a normal TSH (1.5) and FT4 (1.4) but a lower FT (2.7) and heavily symptomatic. Idk if you care about rT3 but that was always around 20-24.

I have a ton of knowledge when it comes to thyroid but I can never seem to find a dose I can maintain the elimination of symptoms on.

You've checked for auto immune disorders? You might never get your thyroid straightened out without having it removed.

My oldest brother has Addison disease(diagnosed as a teenager). In his late 20's, early 30's his thyroid wasn't working right, not sure all the details but he had to take a radiation pill to kill(or slow?) his thyroid. Same time my son was born and he wasn't allowed to hold him. Fast forward 14 years, his endocrinologist is still making adjustments to his thyroid medication. It has been reduced the last to times he's seen his doctor. I believe I read somewhere that the thyroid can actually recover for radiation treatment and start producing extra hormone again.

My middle brother, just a few weeks ago was diagnosed with Graves and hashimoto disease. Last year he went in for a physical, found he had low thyroid, started him on thyroid medication. Goes back for a check up and his thyroid numbers are off the charts high. They reduce his thyroid medication and his numbers still came back way too high. They discontinued medicine, ran more tests and found he had Graves and hashimoto. How do you treat a thyroid when you have to auto immune disorders and one causes hyperthyroidism and the other causes hypothyroidism?

Then there's me. I most definitely have thyroid issues. I have so many hypo symptoms. Last time I checked my thyroid, these were my numbers, tsh 2.7 (0.450-4.5), free t4 1.15 (0.82-1.77), free t3 4.8 (2.0-4.4). My symptoms get worse if my test levels are even marginally elevated. High test levels can cause excessive high free t3 causing the body to shutdown receptors causing hypothyroidism despite high free t3. Seems rare and with my brothers latest diagnoses, wonder if I don't actually have more going on than just testosterone levels. Being stuck never being able to run more than 80-100mg test/week seems to defeat the purpose of permanently shutting myself down, lol.

My brother tells me autoimmune disorders can be genetic...my mom has fibromyalgia, some classify it as autoimmune disorder. I should probably go get some bloodwork done.

Black Beard · Jul 1, 2023

Crazy_jay said:
You've checked for auto immune disorders? You might never get your thyroid straightened out without having it removed.

My oldest brother has Addison disease(diagnosed as a teenager). In his late 20's, early 30's his thyroid wasn't working right, not sure all the details but he had to take a radiation pill to kill(or slow?) his thyroid. Same time my son was born and he wasn't allowed to hold him. Fast forward 14 years, his endocrinologist is still making adjustments to his thyroid medication. It has been reduced the last to times he's seen his doctor. I believe I read somewhere that the thyroid can actually recover for radiation treatment and start producing extra hormone again.

My middle brother, just a few weeks ago was diagnosed with Graves and hashimoto disease. Last year he went in for a physical, found he had low thyroid, started him on thyroid medication. Goes back for a check up and his thyroid numbers are off the charts high. They reduce his thyroid medication and his numbers still came back way too high. They discontinued medicine, ran more tests and found he had Graves and hashimoto. How do you treat a thyroid when you have to auto immune disorders and one causes hyperthyroidism and the other causes hypothyroidism?

Then there's me. I most definitely have thyroid issues. I have so many hypo symptoms. Last time I checked my thyroid, these were my numbers, tsh 2.7 (0.450-4.5), free t4 1.15 (0.82-1.77), free t3 4.8 (2.0-4.4). My symptoms get worse if my test levels are even marginally elevated. High test levels can cause excessive high free t3 causing the body to shutdown receptors causing hypothyroidism despite high free t3. Seems rare and with my brothers latest diagnoses, wonder if I don't actually have more going on than just testosterone levels. Being stuck never being able to run more than 80-100mg test/week seems to defeat the purpose of permanently shutting myself down, lol.

My brother tells me autoimmune disorders can be genetic...my mom has fibromyalgia, some classify it as autoimmune disorder. I should probably go get some bloodwork done.

Are you using HGH?