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Tom Prince on Kidney Issues and 90s Bodybuilding

LATS

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I have said this in the past but tom was the most impressive guy I ever saw off season.. he was 5'8 or a bit higher and a lean 300 pounds.. widest guy I ever coukd imagine.. in person it was cartoonist to say the least
 

Kaladryn

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The best bodybuilders are small-framed people who build a lot of muscle. If you stop training/anabolics and focus completely on health and cardio, you will return to your original size. Also, age. I don't see the problem here.

BTW he posted some of his real prep cycles, they aren't that heavy.
 

TrippplePPP

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Not sure if you guys seen the Aaron Hernandez special on netflix. In this they have Aaron talking about Toradol (strong antiinflammatory) like it was a rec drug like speed or coke. It gave me a different persoective on what can be used/abused to perform.
 

Flex500

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I'm suspicious about the NSAID doses. Tom isn't stupid, I don't even think it will likely do anything positive to OD them like that. And why take so many NSAIDs if you are on narcotics like Nubain or Oxy? Unless there's some combo pills with with narcs/NSAIDs - then I could see such reckless ODing, just to get to the narc.
I know some idiots who have taken whole tubes of APAP/codeine effervescent tabs just to get a codeine high. What a miserable way to go if the liver shuts down.

I don't remember if Tom said he had genetic FSGS, but if he did, from what I can tell, there's a secondary form of it connected to anabolic use, not just genetics. All these bodybuilders with FSGS, yeah I think it's probably not just poor luck.

I hear you and do agree but, I ran track in college and high school and would get shin splints so bad I'd take 6 to get through practice and for an all day meet would need 6-10. I did that pretty mindlessly from about my junior year in high school through college. If he was in so much pain he could hardly train it honestly gets very easy to slam 6-16 advil or more without thinking twice. I know it seems like a lot but if you are competing in any event (or even just every day life) it gets real easy if it provides pain relief.
 

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I agree. NSAIDs are said to hinder training adaptations too. But at the same time, do you know how common NSAID use is in say track & field and other athletics? Pretty much everyone relies heavily on these, at least periodically, all prescribed by team doctors. One high jumper said he was on them his whole career as well as decades after. My powerlifter friend has been on daily diklofenac for 12 years straight. His doc knows his whole story but has no problem filling his script again and again. I have also seen mentions of long term painkiller use actually increasing pain, something to do with becoming hypersensitive to pain or the receptors upregulating or whatever.


Too funny I made my last post before I even read this one!! Literally for 6 years I was slamming advil. My shin splints would get so bad I could hardly walk. At the end of my career I was taking at least 6-8 to get through a two hour practice and 10-15 on saturdays.
 

opietaylor

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The best bodybuilders are small-framed people who build a lot of muscle. If you stop training/anabolics and focus completely on health and cardio, you will return to your original size. Also, age. I don't see the problem here.

BTW he posted some of his real prep cycles, they aren't that heavy.


You mean the ones where he would claim to come off completely for a couple weeks during a precontest run?
 

Bio

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I'm suspicious about the NSAID doses. Tom isn't stupid, I don't even think it will likely do anything positive to OD them like that. And why take so many NSAIDs if you are on narcotics like Nubain or Oxy? Unless there's some combo pills with with narcs/NSAIDs - then I could see such reckless ODing, just to get to the narc.
I know some idiots who have taken whole tubes of APAP/codeine effervescent tabs just to get a codeine high. What a miserable way to go if the liver shuts down.

I don't remember if Tom said he had genetic FSGS, but if he did, from what I can tell, there's a secondary form of it connected to anabolic use, not just genetics. All these bodybuilders with FSGS, yeah I think it's probably not just poor luck.


In the video he states how he found out he had FSGS. It was two weeks after the kidney transplant and his body began to attack the new kidney. That's when doctor's diagnosed him with it.

From what I've read, genetic FSGS is rare. Most cases of it are "induced".
 

Bio

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Not sure if you guys seen the Aaron Hernandez special on netflix. In this they have Aaron talking about Toradol (strong antiinflammatory) like it was a rec drug like speed or coke. It gave me a different persoective on what can be used/abused to perform.

In football it was/is referred to as Vitamin T. It caused multiple players to have acute kidney failure. It's banned in Europe.
 

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You mean the ones where he would claim to come off completely for a couple weeks during a precontest run?
Come off? He was on 1.5g sust and 400mg deca, he certainly never came off during those two weeks. In fact, this detail about his cycle makes it even more believable, why would anyone lie about something like that? It was probably an attempt to resensitize mid-cycle. The cycle is extremely believable.
Week #1: 4 iu's GH/day; 4 x Sostenon 250 mg.; 200 mg. Deca Durabolin; 1 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day

Week #2: 4 iu's GH/day; 5 x Sostenon 250 mg.; 200 mg. Deca Durabolin; 1 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day

Week #3: 4 iu's GH/day; 5 x Sostenon 250 mg.; 200 mg. Deca Durabolin; 2 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; (pre a.m. workout) 2 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 200 mg. caffeine tab

Week #4: 4 iu's GH/day; 6 x Sostenon 250 mg.; 400 mg. Deca Durabolin; 2 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; (pre a.m. workout) 2 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 200 mg. caffeine tab

Week #5: 6iu's GH/day; 6 x Sostenon 250 mg.; 400 mg. Deca Durabolin; 2 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; (pre a.m. workout) 3 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 200 mg. caffeine tab

Week #6: 6 iu's GH/day; 6 x Sostenon 250 mg.; 400 mg. Deca Durabolin; 2 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; (pre a.m. workout) 3 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 200 mg. caffeine tab

Week #7: off; 5000 iu HCG/day; 2 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 4 clenbuterol/day (2 days on 1 day off); 300 mg. caffeine x 6 days/week (a.m. only)

Week #8: off; 2 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 4 clenbuterol/day (2 days on 1 day off); 300 mg. caffeine x 6 days/week (a.m. only)

Week #9: 6 iu's GH/day; 1200 mg. Test Cypionate; 600 mg. Deca Durabolin; 150 mg. Winstrol-V (50 mg. each M-W-F); 4 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 4 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 300 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)

Week #10: 6 iu's GH/day; 1200 mg. Test Cypionate; 600 mg. Deca Durabolin; 150 mg. Winstrol-V (50 mg. each M-W-F); 4 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 4 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 300 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)

Week #11: 6 iu's GH/day; 1200 mg. Test Cypionate; 600 mg. Deca Durabolin; 150 mg. Winstrol-V (50 mg. each M-W-F); 4 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 5 x Clenbuterol tabs, 300 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)

Week #12: 6 iu's GH/day; 1200 mg. Test Cypionate; 600 mg. Deca Durabolin; 150 mg. Winstrol-V (50 mg. each M-W-F); 4 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 5 x Clenbuterol tabs, 400 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)

Week #13: 6 iu's GH/day; 1200 mg. Test Cypionate; 600 mg. Deca Durabolin; 300 mg. Winstrol-V (100 mg. each M-W-F); 6 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 2 x 20 mg. Nolvadex tabs/day; 5 x 25 mg. Ephedrine tab, 400 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)

Week #14: 6 iu's GH/day; 1500 mg. Test Cypionate; 600 mg. Deca Durabolin; 300 mg. Winstrol-V (100 mg. each M-W-F); 6 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 2 x 20 mg. Nolvadex tabs/day; 6 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 400 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)

Week #15: off 6 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 2 x 20 mg. Nolvadex tabs/day; 6 x 25 mg. ephedrine tab, 400 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)

**Week #16: off; 6 x 50 mg. Teslac tabs/day; 2 x 20 mg. Nolvadex tabs/day; 10 x Clenbuterol tab (Sun, Mon, Tue only), 400 mg. caffeine tab (a.m. only)
**Day of contest was at the end of 16th Week.
 

alfresco

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From what a lot of you are saying it seems like an insult to injury situation. Kind of amazes me people think they can use things we use for muscle growth and throw a bunch of other questionable shit on top of it and end up ok. I don't TOUCH pain killers or NSAIDS of ANY type.
I only took ONE dose of pain killer after ripping my pec off the bone. Suck it up, pain is life

Pain tells you that you are not dead. Suffering is optional.

With rare rare exceptions, I do not take pain meds. Hell, even when I go to the dentist I
refuse Novacane. He just shakes his head. I must have a high tolerance for pain.

Tripp mentioned Toradol. Used it once years ago after a long and arduous hike and I hurt all
over when finished. My wife had some Toradol so I took one. It was a game changer.
It is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug on steroids. But it is extremely hard on your
body . . . use for 5 days max.

Getting back on topic, Tom must have really been suffering physically to take the alleged(?)
amounts of painkillers. I think he mentioned that he had some sort of genetic predisposition(?)
to something he may have already had, but only Tom know. He seemed very nice when
I saw an interview with him and Shawn Ray if you can stop Shawn from talking about himself ;)
 

Ruhlfreak55

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I agree. NSAIDs are said to hinder training adaptations too. But at the same time, do you know how common NSAID use is in say track & field and other athletics? Pretty much everyone relies heavily on these, at least periodically, all prescribed by team doctors. One high jumper said he was on them his whole career as well as decades after. My powerlifter friend has been on daily diklofenac for 12 years straight. His doc knows his whole story but has no problem filling his script again and again. I have also seen mentions of long term painkiller use actually increasing pain, something to do with becoming hypersensitive to pain or the receptors upregulating or whatever.

I had no idea about that, my opinion kind of comes from a vacuum, haven't been involved in any other sports. I just know I want to give myself the best chance to be able to bodybuild to the best of my ability AND come out the side.
 

qbkilla

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was it kidneys that did derrick Anthony in? he looked terrible towards the end, but I think I recall different rumors what was wrong with him
 

KillerStack

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was it kidneys that did derrick Anthony in? he looked terrible towards the end, but I think I recall different rumors what was wrong with him

He was on dialysis but he also had liver cancer. I think he went into cardiac arrest during a dialysis run. But I may be misremembering. I saw a video on getbig the other day circa 07, 08 where his stomach was extremely distended and the rest of him very deflated. My very amateur thought was that it was maybe ascites? I might speculate the sleeve on his elbow was to cover up blown out veins. Tom had those sleeves on during photoshoots as well.

 

KillerStack

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Come off? He was on 1.5g sust and 400mg deca, he certainly never came off during those two weeks. In fact, this detail about his cycle makes it even more believable, why would anyone lie about something like that? It was probably an attempt to resensitize mid-cycle. The cycle is extremely believable.

I think the coming off for 2 weeks before the show was a Chad Nicholls thing. Chicherillo was also in the Nicholls sphere and he said only an idiot would take any steroids at all the last 2 weeks. He also said no pro took a steroid shot every day, like who would do such an idiotic thing!

Bob blamed Tom's kidney damage on Nubain specifically. But Bob was no expert.
 

Reno911

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In football it was/is referred to as Vitamin T. It caused multiple players to have acute kidney failure. It's banned in Europe.

Yes, Toradol is the NFL's "dirty little secret". When you see guys get carted off the field and go into the tunnel then 10 minutes later they're back in the game you know it's the Toradol. Maddux, Glavine, The Big Unit, Schilling, and a bunch of MLB guys used to love the patch version on Toradol.

A guy from the gym I know pretty well played Big-10 college football in the early-mid 2000's. He said he "loved" Toradol and the team doctors were pretty generous about giving it out. He said you could literally have a compound fracture and not even realize your arm was broken.

But yes, very hard on the kidneys and many times will lead to opioid abuse due to the masking of the chronic pain and/or injuries.
 

Pusher

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Pain tells you that you are not dead. Suffering is optional.

With rare rare exceptions, I do not take pain meds. Hell, even when I go to the dentist I
refuse Novacane. He just shakes his head. I must have a high tolerance for pain.

Tripp mentioned Toradol. Used it once years ago after a long and arduous hike and I hurt all
over when finished. My wife had some Toradol so I took one. It was a game changer.
It is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug on steroids. But it is extremely hard on your
body . . . use for 5 days max.

Getting back on topic, Tom must have really been suffering physically to take the alleged(?)
amounts of painkillers. I think he mentioned that he had some sort of genetic predisposition(?)
to something he may have already had, but only Tom know. He seemed very nice when
I saw an interview with him and Shawn Ray if you can stop Shawn from talking about himself ;)


'took one'? you sure you're not talking about TRAMadol? TORadol is usually an injection.. works like Advil, and it works surprisingly freaking well. Honestly, i got more relief from Toradol injections after my hip surgery(s) than i did the 2mg IV diluadid every other hour and 1g oral oxycodone i got round the clock. The Toradol i could actually 'feel' physically, the opiates were just a mental/emotional "mmm ahhhh" feeling. Toradol made my body feel "smooth" (imagine how you'd describe deca making your knees and elbows feel).

i just with Tom would finally come out and talk about the recreational drug/coke/oxy IV use. we've all noticed the huge purple tracks up his biceps and big purple abcess-looking things in the crooks of his elbows. not to mention him being such a pompous asshole back then. Chris COrmier came out and talked about his 'hard times', even talked about crack ffs. c'mon tom, just tell us about the rec drug use... i'd assume he's clean these days. maybe some young kids would benefit from hearing about it. i know i would've, since i was sucked into the whole rec-drug bbing scene and introduced to Nubain at 18 by a somewhat well known bodybuilder/fitness model-loser... one of those guys who youd see in the magazines and think he was 'famous' and found out he used Nubain and he said it was completely fine (i could write a book on that dirtbag). had i known the TRUTH back then and had someone tell me what NOT to do because they'd already made the mistakes, i might not've gone down the road i did and the last 20yrs would've been a lil more productive.
 

alfresco

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'took one'? you sure you're not talking about TRAMadol? TORadol is usually an injection.. works like Advil, and it works surprisingly freaking well. Honestly, i got more relief from Toradol injections after my hip surgery(s) than i did the 2mg IV diluadid every other hour and 1g oral oxycodone i got round the clock. The Toradol i could actually 'feel' physically, the opiates were just a mental/emotional "mmm ahhhh" feeling. Toradol made my body feel "smooth" (imagine how you'd describe deca making your knees and elbows feel).


Did not know about the injection. Thanks for that. Maybe my wife had the injection first,
I don't remember but what I do remember is the magic pill and how all my pain went away.
 

totalrecomp

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Agreed. People who make mistakes still deserve sympathy.
I work in respiratory therapy, or did, and so many people have the "screw them" attitude towards smokers because they "did it to themselves." That may be so, but the overwhelming majority of people at the hospital are there because of what they did or did not do to/for themselves. No one says screw the fatty with heart failure and diabetes because they did it to themselves! At least not publicly.
 

johnjuanb1

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Come off? He was on 1.5g sust and 400mg deca, he certainly never came off during those two weeks. In fact, this detail about his cycle makes it even more believable, why would anyone lie about something like that? It was probably an attempt to resensitize mid-cycle. The cycle is extremely believable.
This looks like a nice cycle.
 

nothuman

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I work in respiratory therapy, or did, and so many people have the "screw them" attitude towards smokers because they "did it to themselves." That may be so, but the overwhelming majority of people at the hospital are there because of what they did or did not do to/for themselves. No one says screw the fatty with heart failure and diabetes because they did it to themselves! At least not publicly.

EXACTLY. Why does everyone with cancer get sympathy and not people who suffer problems from steroids or drugs? It's almost always self inflicted someway or another. There is nothing worse than being hopeless dealing with something really bad and feeling alone.
 

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