Tren Vs Nandralone for Organ Health

[TheSteamboat]

I think we all know the reputation tren has as far as being toxic; specifically for mental health.

However I saw some debate in a thread recently about the potential effects of nandralone on the heart. Whether there’s validity, I’m not sure. Curious what your guys personal experiences are as far as health impacts of either drug.

Not talking side effects here (mental, sleep, libido, etc) but actual health impact. Let’s assume the user had no issues with tren sides and no issue with deca/npp sides, which would you prefer to use if you were putting health first (obviously neither if health came first, but let’s say you were just trying to choose between the lesser of two evils)?

 

[Swifto]

I think we all know the reputation tren has as far as being toxic; specifically for mental health.

However I saw some debate in a thread recently about the potential effects of nandralone on the heart. Whether there’s validity, I’m not sure. Curious what your guys personal experiences are as far as health impacts of either drug.

Not talking side effects here (mental, sleep, libido, etc) but actual health impact. Let’s assume the user had no issues with tren sides and no issue with deca/npp sides, which would you prefer to use if you were putting health first (obviously neither if health came first, but let’s say you were just trying to choose between the lesser of two evils)?

No one can tell you.

Get bloods done on both and go from there.

Generally speaking, I'd assume Nandrolone is less toxic overall than Trenbolone, but as always, the dosage will determine that impact as well as genetics of the recipient.

You could look at macrodosing Tren at 10mg/ED+ to try and balance performance and side effects, we have a thread on it thats popular.

 

[TheSteamboat]

but as always, the dosage will determine that impact as well as genetics of the recipient.

Right, and I do imagine that one could get similar growth from lower dose tren as higher mg of nandralone, potentially…

 

[Alzadosghost]

Right, and I do imagine that one could get similar growth from lower dose tren as higher mg of nandralone, potentially…

Low dose tren certainly Dosnt make me grow anywhere near higher doses Deca durabolan. The scale won’t budge for me with tren. I just did 200mg a week of tren and I didn’t grow at all from it. My bodyfat was very low too so there wasn’t much recomping effect. I jump on 400-800mg a week of Deca I’ll stay lean and put on lots of size. That’s just me though.

 

[Swifto]

Right, and I do imagine that one could get similar growth from lower dose tren as higher mg of nandralone, potentially…

I dont really have experience with using Tren as part of offseason or bulking/growth phases. I've only used in when in a calorie deficit/cutting.

If it doesnt effect appetite, it could work I guess.

Add it to your bulking stack at 10mg/EOD or ED and see what happens with bloods and performance. I'll probably do the same this winter at 45mg per week.

 

[Fleezy]

However I saw some debate in a thread recently about the potential effects of nandralone on the heart.

If you’re referring to the study where nandrolone was 11x harder on heart tissue than testosterone

I believe that was a flawed study and has been debunked

 

[juggy38]

If you’re referring to the study where nandrolone was 11x harder on heart tissue than testosterone

I believe that was a flawed study and has been debunked

@Type-IIx touched on this once. I believe the gist was, there’s no fucking way to run the amount of deca to get blood levels equal to the levels in the study. But he did touch on decas effect on collagen synthesis, which could in theory cause more LVH than testosterone.

Regarding tren on growth phases….tren is the strongest anti-catabolic we have. Net protein accrual = muscle protein synthesis - muscle protein breakdown. 100mg tren a week on a growth phase can make sense, especially if you’re not a competitor competing soon. If you’re going to diet extremely hard after a growth phase, save the tren. If you’re a meathead who’s gonna grow, do a TRT washout, then try to grow again, go for it. (If you tolerate it)

 

[Fleezy]

@Type-IIx touched on this once. I believe the gist was, there’s no fucking way to run the amount of deca to get blood levels equal to the levels in the study. But he did touch on decas effect on collagen synthesis, which could in theory cause more LVH than testosterone.

Regarding tren on growth phases….tren is the strongest anti-catabolic we have. Net protein accrual = muscle protein synthesis - muscle protein breakdown. 100mg tren a week on a growth phase can make sense, especially if you’re not a competitor competing soon. If you’re going to diet extremely hard after a growth phase, save the tren. If you’re a meathead who’s gonna grow, do a TRT washout, then try to grow again, go for it. (If you tolerate it)

I believe it was Dr. Scott Stevenson who indicated that this study about the 11x more deleterious to human vascular structures was done on human cells in a petri dish

So the nandrolone never went through enzymatic changes and was thus far more androgenic than nandrolone actually is in our systems en vivo

 

[juggy38]

I believe it was Dr. Scott Stevenson who indicated that this study about the 11x more deleterious to human vascular structures was done on human cells in a petri dish

So the nandrolone never went through enzymatic changes and was thus far more androgenic than nandrolone actually is in our systems en viv

Definitely might have been Dr. Scott!!!

Petri dish environment would of been impossible to replicate in vivo

 

[bbxtreme]

The study people are likely referencing around nandrolone and heart is this one:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320511004012#:~:text=Nandrolone%20increased%20the%20cardiac%20collagen,the%20respective%20vehicle%2Dtreated%20groups.

Collagen increase and correlation to heart failure in rats.

Given most people could benefit from more collagen I’m not sure how much stock I would put into this.

If I have to pick between the two compounds based on which is less hard on the heart I personally would choose nandrolone any day of the week.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

@Type-IIx touched on this once. I believe the gist was, there’s no fucking way to run the amount of deca to get blood levels equal to the levels in the study. But he did touch on decas effect on collagen synthesis, which could in theory cause more LVH than testosterone.

I believe it was Dr. Scott Stevenson who indicated that this study about the 11x more deleterious to human vascular structures was done on human cells in a petri dish

So the nandrolone never went through enzymatic changes and was thus far more androgenic than nandrolone actually is in our systems en vivo

^^^ +who really runs NANDROLONE by itself??

..the study just does not "equate" to what we do

.

 

[trenned]

We don't know is the only real answer. No human studies on tren. Animal data showed tren might be better than test in some health aspects potentially for trt.

 

[Mufasa123]

Agree with above. Nandrolone is more studied than any other aas besides test itself. A single oddball mega dose (even for mass monster ifbb pros) petri study (like studying test without conversion to E2, DHT and a billion other things in the body) doesn't sway me much.

More to the point. I can and have run 750 test and 600 deca taking bloods well into peak phase without the slightest movement in liver, lipids, kidney or another reading (consistent any time I've run them lower or up to here). Tren even at moderate doses, say 300ish, hdl drops and liver values rise. Nothing mega (only a tad more than primo in hdl and only a few pts out on one liver value but CONSISTENT EVERY TIME I'VE RUN IT) so kind of tells me something and I consider this in my use accordingly.

And for the record I get on fine with tren, no night sweats, feel great, cardio impact at higher doses does show up, and sleep gets messed up if I don't move it up gradually the first few weeks but that's it. I like the stuff and feel good so no axe to grind.

 

[specter]

i know and follow one of the guys who was in the trial the did on guys with HIV in the 80's, he runs 100mg nandrolone 100mg test e every weak year round and has so ever since the 80's, he somtimes when he wants to grow a little double his doses, he is stil healthy as fuck and has no heart issues at all.