Trest and DHB 5x Stronger

[Type-IIx]

Any reason that you mention tren ACE and not just tren? Any difference in actual outcome of tren ace vs tren enanthate? I know its just a different ester, but yet I see many people react very different to tren a vs tren e - if so, does this also apply to ment a vs ment e?

This is an interesting problem. There is evidence that trenbolone acetate (17β-acetoxy-3-oxoestra-4,9,11-triene) is a more potent AR agonist than trenbolone (17β-hydroxy-4,9,11-estratrien-3-one) & that testosterone propionate is a weaker AR agonist than testosterone. The practical implications are confounded by the fact that the ester aggregates in depot at the injection site, such that injectable androgens form a depot (subject to dissolution, rate dependent upon length of esterified FA) ⇒ blood circulation ⇒ liver ⇒ Esterase (catalyzes hydrolysis of esterified compound) yielding the parent hormone in circulation. The question is the net effect of systemic circulation of some quantity of the esterified compound (that, ester & compound-dependently may have greater or lesser affinity & potency for the AR) than the parent hormone.

 

[Bobik]

Hm, so he means "widely commercially available" as "traditional." OK.

To your question:
1-Testo ("DHB"): considerations: often uses guaicol as a solvent, often increases C reactive protein & inflammation, potential hepatic strain (liver toxicity) due to reduction of the 1,2 double bond & likely resistance to 3β-HSD, and often unbearable PIP
MENT: potent AR activity but also very high potency aromatic product (7α-methylestradiol) so potent estrogenic effects, potent HPG axis suppression (I won't bore you with its mechanisms, but it's efficacious in male contraception for a reason), increases blood pressure dramatically
Masteron: potent hematopoietic agent (increases Hb/HCT), mild anabolic (weak muscle builder)
Primo: potent hematopoietic agent (""), " " (weak muscle builder)

Is it possible to rank a potent hematopoietic agents (increases Hb / HCT)? In my experience, Hb / HTC Nandrolone + TST increases me the most and Tren and Primo the least. Thnx

 

[Type-IIx]

Is it possible to rank a potent hematopoietic agents (increases Hb / HCT)? In my experience, Hb / HTC Nandrolone + TST increases me the most and Tren and Primo the least. Thnx

It's possible to say that nandrolone is more potent than primo in this (nandrolone is a VERY potent hematinic). There's no good data on tren. What's TST?

 

[Bobik]

Whats TST?

Thnx... TST = Testosterone

 

[qbkilla]

Seriously - if you care so much about your health, give it a rest with drugs completely. And if you do not compete, stay with the test, gh, insulin - even in high doses you can take them relatively safely, once a year you want to make a shape for the holidays, use var / winny, mast maybe a little tren for 6-8 weeks and it will be in reasonable and "healthy"

This is what I currently do.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thnx... TST = Testosterone

OK. Well, testosterone is a very mild hematopoeitic agent & tren seems to be as well, but no good data on tren.

 

[ELIMINATOR]

OK. Well, testosterone is a very mild hematopoeitic agent & tren seems to be as well, but no good data on tren.

That's very interesting. I think I listen and buy into too much of Broderick says, since he said that the testosterone family will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin the most, then the nandrolone family and last is the dht family except for anadrol which he said will raise H/H a a lot, since it acts more like the testosterone family.

 

[Type-IIx]

That's very interesting. I think I listen and buy into too much of Broderick says, since he said that the testosterone family will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin the most, then the nandrolone family and last is the dht family except for anadrol which he said will raise H/H a a lot, since it acts more like the testosterone family.

Common themes with these gurus include their belief that this "testosterone-19-nortestosterone-DHT" model is scientific. It's complete bro-science. Another one is an overreliance on rat models & believing the Hershberger Assay (anabolic:androgenic ratings) tells us anything useful. The HA was used in 1960s-1970s (and humorously, more recently with SARMs research, where unsurprisingly these fantastic-seeming compounds pan out as being less practically useful than stanozolol) research as a preliminary assay, that was then followed up with actual human testing. By the way, I still don't grasp how tren does not fit into Broderick's schema for "traditional" steroids. I'll digress.

 

[Type-IIx]

The argument on here I believe got misconstrued . I m not gonna say whether I claim to know what is stronger or by how much . I love trest and dhb. Never used them together . but to argue that something is t 5x stronger because you dont put on 5x the amount of muscle is foolish . 5g of test is 5x stronger than 1g . it doesnt mean 5g puts on 5x the amount of muscle mass than 1g . there are some ridiculous claims on paper about how powerful things are and there s guys on here that seem to get great results from low doses of trest . we re all different responders to different things and we ll never know till we try it ourselves .

Actually, claiming something is 5x stronger in a bodybuilding context must mean it is 5x more anabolic in human skeletal muscle. Your claim that "we can't know anything until we inject ourselves to test Broderick's ridiculous claim" notwithstanding, we can actually know things, measure things. If it's not even true that one of these (the most potent of the two, even) compounds is (as claimed) 5x more potent in AR potency in a relevant model, then it cannot be true, once accounting for human metabolism and the law of diminishing returns, that the statement "Trest and DHB 5x Stronger [more anabolic in human skeletal muscle]" is true. This is how reason and logic work, Mr. Shreddenbacher.

 

[ELIMINATOR]

Common themes with these gurus include their belief that this "testosterone-19-nortestosterone-DHT" model is scientific. It's complete bro-science. Another one is an overreliance on rat models & believing the Hershberger Assay (anabolic:androgenic ratings) tells us anything useful. The HA was used in 1960s-1970s (and humorously, more recently with SARMs research, where unsurprisingly these fantastic-seeming compounds pan out as being less practically useful than stanozolol) research as a preliminary assay, that was then followed up with actual human testing. By the way, I still don't grasp how tren does not fit into Broderick's schema for "traditional" steroids. I'll digress.

Yeah, I'm not sure. He hates tren since he can't handle it and thinks DHB and trest are like going deer hunting with a missle.

I have to be cautious of hemoglobin and hematocrit, so in your opinion what aas would be unwise to use, if any? Deca at 300 and test at 200 put me at a hematocrit of 54.

 

[cmryan]

That's very interesting. I think I listen and buy into too much of Broderick says, since he said that the testosterone family will raise hematocrit and hemoglobin the most, then the nandrolone family and last is the dht family except for anadrol which he said will raise H/H a a lot, since it acts more like the testosterone family.

He overgeneralizes in his Q&A's. In fairness, it can be a tough format to answer questions with any depth. In regards to the testosterone "family" having the greatest positive change upon HgB and HCT, I suppose boldenone being classified as one helps that argument but it's still a poor argument by his own inadvertent admission. If you listen to him discuss all the other aas, he generally admits little to no change.

 

[cmryan]

Yeah, I'm not sure. He hates tren since he can't handle it and thinks DHB and trest are like going deer hunting with a missle.

I have to be cautious of hemoglobin and hematocrit, so in your opinion what aas would be unwise to use, if any? Deca at 300 and test at 200 put me at a hematocrit of 54.

I honestly do not understand how he can believe DHB to be as potent as he claims. It's almost as if he's using a different drug altogether.

 

[ELIMINATOR]

He overgeneralizes in his Q&A's. In fairness, it can be a tough format to answer questions with any depth. In regards to the testosterone "family" having the greatest positive change upon HgB and HCT, I suppose boldenone being classified as one helps that argument but it's still a poor argument by his own inadvertent admission. If you listen to him discuss all the other aas, he generally admits little to no change.

I've just heard him say the dht family has the least impact on hemoglobin and hematocrit.

I honestly do not understand how he can believe DHB to be as potent as he claims. It's almost as if he's using a different drug altogether.

Yeah, idk. I've used 100 mg per week of dhb and I do think it's effective, but not really 5x effective. Maybe he means in terms of side effects?

 

[Mufasa123]

I've just heard him say the dht family has the least impact on hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Yeah, idk. I've used 100 mg per week of dhb and I do think it's effective, but not really 5x effective. Maybe he means in terms of side effects?

As far as hemo and crit Primo and Masteron (both dhts up to 600mg each and even combined at 600/400) do nothing to me. Neither does Var or winstrol that I've seen (350 weekly).

Where I've seen my biggest hits, and I'm sensative to these and always near top end of range even on 200mg test only cruise, is tren and to a lesser degree deca. Never noticed test do anything but test and my list of dhts really doesn't so I'd say test along at normal doses (say under 1 gram) doesn't move me either.

Base off myself alone and numerous tests over many years. I don't know this guy but between this and the 5x quote I'm skeptical of his info/knowledge. Might have some decent info but this...

 

[cmryan]

I've just heard him say the dht family has the least impact on hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Yeah, idk. I've used 100 mg per week of dhb and I do think it's effective, but not really 5x effective. Maybe he means in terms of side effects?

I actually think it's fairly low on the side effect scale. Well, there's the pip that seems unavoidable to a degree. Some guys seem to tolerate it better and others not at all. The (temporary) increase in CRP was a bit alarming at first though. Beyond that, I can't say it does any undesireable things. I've found it to be more of a strength/performance drug than a drug suited to bodybuilding. In that it improves strength output with very little change in bodyweight. Just my personal observations though.

 

[ELIMINATOR]

I actually think it's fairly low on the side effect scale. Well, there's the pip that seems unavoidable to a degree. Some guys seem to tolerate it better and others not at all. The (temporary) increase in CRP was a bit alarming at first though. Beyond that, I can't say it does any undesireable things. I've found it to be more of a strength/performance drug than a drug suited to bodybuilding. In that it improves strength output with very little change in bodyweight. Just my personal observations though.

I do powerlifting and that's why I like it. I use it for the upregulation of neurological drive...the pip hasn't been an issue with me, but the lab I used looks to be no longer in business or was busted, so that might change.

 

[Thappy]

How many definitions could 5x stronger have? It literally means 5X STRONGER

i guess its like most things, whats written on paper doesnt always happen in real life. But it sure as shit stronger than test.

 

[nidnoy]

There is also a point of diminishing returns. People routinely use a gram of test, I have never heard of anyone using a gram of trest or dhb. I am sure it’s happened but it’s not common. Estro sides with Trest and painful pins of dhb limit the dose many can use. I think for those of us who are lower dosing these compound are great. But for those who are competing and using competitive doses those limitations may limit their usefulness. Can you imagine someone using 1500 mgs test and 600 mgs trest instead of deca? Or swapping 800 mgs of eq for 16 weeks of 8 painful pins of dhb for that time? I may be way off here though.

 

[luki7788]

There is also a point of diminishing returns. People routinely use a gram of test, I have never heard of anyone using a gram of trest or dhb. I am sure it’s happened but it’s not common. Estro sides with Trest and painful pins of dhb limit the dose many can use. I think for those of us who are lower dosing these compound are great. But for those who are competing and using competitive doses those limitations may limit their usefulness. Can you imagine someone using 1500 mgs test and 600 mgs trest instead of deca? Or swapping 800 mgs of eq for 16 weeks of 8 painful pins of dhb for that time? I may be way off here though.

I myself recently used 900mg dhb per week for about 12 weeks
@ musclefreak47 also uses 1050mg dhb for about 10 weeks

I myself have tried 700mg trest with 2100mg test week in the past but the aromatization was too high. You can use drugs such as DHB or MENT, but then you have to abandon the traditional model of cycles

 

[jaxino]

Yeah, I'm not sure. He hates tren since he can't handle it and thinks DHB and trest are like going deer hunting with a missle.

I have to be cautious of hemoglobin and hematocrit, so in your opinion what aas would be unwise to use, if any? Deca at 300 and test at 200 put me at a hematocrit of 54.

I still don't understand how can people give credit to this fake coach.
Mr i used 3g Primo and 300mg Test and i blow up? Yes sir, your big belly full of shit, mr 25% bf.

Broderick is just piss and wind.

He needs money, and wants to look smart, he has no job (despite he says he works for University).
Those people are ready to tell you half truth, and whatever is possible to look smarter than mainstream coaches.
Did you notice the gains that Mircea had with Broderick? ZERO.... What about Alex Kikel? ZERO.

Jesus guys wake up.... internet is FULL of fake gurus nowadays.... internet is full of fake shit.

The BIG GUYS that you see in your gym, don't follow a single one of their statements, and have gains over gains.

Bodybuilding is not healthy and never will be. Jeez you want to make your body run at 200km/h when it was made for 50km/h.
Taking drugs, be it 500mg ew or 5g ew, training, eating to grow, will make you die earlier.

All these coaches want to make bb healthy, gaining muscle healthy etc etc etc, because it looks cool!
Do you think that you can reach 250lb lean with 500mg and few iu HGH? Stop being so naive.
Even the top pros with top genes and top coaches can't do that.

Even after a statement like that "Trest/DHB is 5x times more potent than any other steroid" you don't think that those people are completly fake?