TRIBESTAN - Good read from Emeric

[emeric delczeg]

Thank Emeric and are you still selling it or does Phil have it?

I don`t retail the Tribestan, I sell the Tribestan to Europa and BOSS they are my distributors. Phil should have it on his website, soon.

 

[aeliop]

I have it

Thank Emeric and are you still selling it or does Phil have it?

I have it as well.


**broken link removed**

 

[mule]

obviously great stuff if you fly planes lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ynfCydAcQ&NR=1

 

[mule]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/soph/trib.html

and even cheaper at

**broken link removed**

has ever ordered from this supplement market place, that is a great price for the tribestan. is this place legit?

 

[KillerStack]

There is no solid evidence that Tribulus or Tribestan does anything wrt testosterone or lutenizing hormone etc, in humans. The sexual effects are likely through other mechanisms.

IMHO.

J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23.
The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.
Neychev VK, Mitev VI.

Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

 

[emeric delczeg]

There is no solid evidence that Tribulus or Tribestan does anything wrt testosterone or lutenizing hormone etc, in humans. The sexual effects are likely through other mechanisms.

IMHO.

The study was conducted on young healthy man what do you expect?. There are studies on man and women with sexual problems. It is a good study published in the Jurnal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, volume 9, number 2, 2003, pp.257-265.

 

[Newman]

The study was conducted on young healthy man what do you expect?. There are studies on man and women with sexula problems. It is a good study published in the Jurnal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, volume 9, number 2, 2003, pp.257-265.

Good catch Emeric.

I was almost convinced that everything I had read here about Tribestans' effectiveness was a bunch of lies.

If it wasn't for you pointing out that important detail, I might have been fooled.

To be honest, I can't see it being too useful on cycle, but as PCT, it sounds pretty good.

 

[KillerStack]

The study was conducted on young healthy man what do you expect?. There are studies on man and women with sexula problems. It is a good study published in the Jurnal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, volume 9, number 2, 2003, pp.257-265.

Do you have a link to the study?

Tribestan is sold as a testosterone booster to young, healthy men. Never seen it marketed as a PCT aid or to old men only. Not that there is any evidence it will do anything after a steroid cycle either.

See this promo material from tribestan.com:

Since the body's natural testosterone promotes protein synthesis and positive nitrogen balance, the benefits for the professional or the recreational athlete engaged in active training and workout, are muscle cell growth and increased body strength as well as faster recuperation and recovery from muscular stress.

Tribestan administration leads to increased muscle mass in active sports by activating the enzyme associated with energy metabolism. At the same time it has also been reported to have the ability to stimulate some functions associated with the increase of the body's natural endogenous testosterone and lutenizing hormone (LH) levels.

It claims to increase test AND muscle mass in normal athletes. No such evidence exists.

Only "study" I've seen where it supposedly increased testosterone and LH is the original Bulgarian study. All these old Eastern Block studies are suspect to me. You had Russian studies showing ecdysterone was as potent as dbol and so on.

If you can find the study you talk about please post it.

 

[Macro]

tribulus can increase erectile response and libido.

it does not increase LH or testosterone.

1: J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23. Links
The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.Neychev VK, Mitev VI.
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

Forensic Sci Int. 2008 Jun 10;178(1):e7-10. Epub 2008 Feb 20. Links
Short term impact of Tribulus terrestris intake on doping control analysis of endogenous steroids.Saudan C, Baume N, Emery C, Strahm E, Saugy M.
Swiss Laboratory for Doping Analyses, Institut Universitaire de Médecine Légale, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Vaudois and University of Lausanne, Chemin des Croisettes 22, 1066 Epalinges, Switzerland.

Tribulus terrestris is a nutritional supplement highly debated regarding its physiological and actual effects on the organism. The main claimed effect is an increase of testosterone anabolic and androgenic action through the activation of endogenous testosterone production. Even if this biological pathway is not entirely proven, T. terrestris is regularly used by athletes. Recently, the analysis of two female urine samples by GC/C/IRMS (gas chromatography/combustion/isotope-ratio-mass-spectrometry) conclusively revealed the administration of exogenous testosterone or its precursors, even if the testosterone glucuronide/epitestosterone glucuronide (T/E) ratio and steroid marker concentrations were below the cut-off values defined by World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). To argue against this adverse analytical finding, the athletes recognized having used T. terrestris in their diet. In order to test this hypothesis, two female volunteers ingested 500 mg of T. terrestris, three times a day and for two consecutive days. All spot urines were collected during 48 h after the first intake. The (13)C/(12)C ratio of ketosteroids was determined by GC/C/IRMS, the T/E ratio and DHEA concentrations were measured by GC/MS and LH concentrations by radioimmunoassay. None of these parameters revealed a significant variation or increased above the WADA cut-off limits. Hence, the short-term treatment with T. terrestris showed no impact on the endogenous testosterone metabolism of the two subjects.

 

[0o0o0o]

tribulus can increase erectile response and libido.

it does not increase LH or testosterone.

Well that being said, we do know what works HCG! Its proven and stays in your system for a good amt of time,

there are also other things such as LHRH which is also known as Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone aka GnRH, which sounds like what tribestan is suppose to be...however you don't want to mess with LHRH(GnRH) supplementing cause your LH levels to be annihilated forever...


good info about why one supplements HCG and not LH

LH is a glycoprotein. Each monomeric unit is a sugar-like protein molecule; two of these make the full, functional protein.
Its structure is similar to the other glycoproteins, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), and human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). The protein dimer contains 2 polypeptide units, labeled alpha and beta subunits that are connected by two disulfide bridges:

* The alpha subunits of LH, FSH, TSH, and hCG are identical, and contain 92 amino acids.

* The beta subunits vary. LH has a beta subunit of 121 amino acids (LHB) that confers its specific biologic action and is responsible for interaction with the LH receptor. This beta subunit contains the same amino acids in sequence as the beta sub unit of hCG and both stimulate the same receptor, however, the hCG beta subunit contains an additional 24 amino acids, and both hormones differ in the composition of their sugar moieties.

The different composition of these oligosaccharides affects bioactivity and speed of degradation. The biologic half-life of LH is 20 minutes, shorter than that of FSH (3-4 hours) or hCG (24 hours).

 

[Max32]

personally, I have seen more effects from Tribulus Alatus (spelling?) It is a newer form of trib that has human studies to back, and a bit pricey I might add...

 

[0o0o0o]

here is some good stuff

ZMA

Zinc and Magnesium are commonly depleted from your body. Studies suggest that supplementing with 30mg of Zinc and 450mg of Magnesium per day can elevate testosterone levels.

The most talked about study is the following. Lorrie Brilla, PhD, a sports performance researcher at Western Washington University, recently reported that ZMA significantly increase free testosterone levels and muscle strength in NCAA football players. These ZMA study results were presented by Dr. Brilla on June 2, 1999, at the 46th Annual Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine in Seattle, WA, and were published in the official ACSM journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol. 31, No. 5, May 1999.

 

[Newman]

Tribulus can increase erectile response and libido.

It does not increase LH or testosterone.

Well, that's crappy. I had hoped it was a good PCT enhancer...

Oh well, at least it might help thwart deca dick...

 

[dieselbuilder]

here is some good stuff

ZMA

Zinc and Magnesium are commonly depleted from your body. Studies suggest that supplementing with 30mg of Zinc and 450mg of Magnesium per day can elevate testosterone levels.

The most talked about study is the following. Lorrie Brilla, PhD, a sports performance researcher at Western Washington University, recently reported that ZMA significantly increase free testosterone levels and muscle strength in NCAA football players. These ZMA study results were presented by Dr. Brilla on June 2, 1999, at the 46th Annual Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine in Seattle, WA, and were published in the official ACSM journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol. 31, No. 5, May 1999.

Was this study that one done by Victor Conte (BALCO)

I found this:

"This study was funded by SNAC Systems Inc. (the patent holders) and one of the study's authors (Victor Conte) has equity in this company."

It said the study funded by SNAC Systems Inc was done in 1999....same study?

Also read this:

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/n1/abs/1602899a.html

 

[emeric delczeg]

Well, that's crappy. I had hoped it was a good PCT enhancer...

Oh well, at least it might help thwart deca dick...

It is good for PCT. Tribestan is a non hormonal preparetion, so I am not surprised that has no effect on people with normal hormonal levels, the Tribestan was created and studied for people with problems. There are pharmacological studies on methods characterizing the stimulating effect on spermatogenesis, effect on dna-synthesis in germinative cells, efect on leyding and sertoli cells of testis, effect on concentration motility and survival of spermatozoa, effect on libido sexualis.

And there are clinical studies on the preparation Tribestan in women with endocrine infertility or menopausal syndrome.

So if you have any of this symptons after or during your AAS cycols, than Tribestan would be a good choice.

 

[Newman]

It is good for PCT. Tribestan is a non hormonal preparetion, so I am not surprised that has no effect on people with normal hormonal levels, the Tribestan was created and studied for people with problems. There are pharmacological studies on methods characterizing the stimulating effect on spermatogenesis, effect on dna-synthesis in germinative cells, efect on leyding and sertoli cells of testis, effect on concentration motility and survival of spermatozoa, effect on libido sexualis.

And there are clinical studies on the preparation Tribestan in women with endocrine infertility or menopausal syndrome.

So if you have any of this symptons after or during your AAS cycols, than Tribestan would be a good choice.

Sorry, Emeric, I'm so sleep deprived that I totally forgot that you had already mentioned that Tribestan is for restoring reduced function, not enhancing normal function.

 

[Swifto]

tribulus can increase erectile response and libido.

it does not increase LH or testosterone.

1: J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23. Links
The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.Neychev VK, Mitev VI.
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

Forensic Sci Int. 2008 Jun 10;178(1):e7-10. Epub 2008 Feb 20. Links
Short term impact of Tribulus terrestris intake on doping control analysis of endogenous steroids.Saudan C, Baume N, Emery C, Strahm E, Saugy M.
Swiss Laboratory for Doping Analyses, Institut Universitaire de Médecine Légale, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Vaudois and University of Lausanne, Chemin des Croisettes 22, 1066 Epalinges, Switzerland.

Tribulus terrestris is a nutritional supplement highly debated regarding its physiological and actual effects on the organism. The main claimed effect is an increase of testosterone anabolic and androgenic action through the activation of endogenous testosterone production. Even if this biological pathway is not entirely proven, T. terrestris is regularly used by athletes. Recently, the analysis of two female urine samples by GC/C/IRMS (gas chromatography/combustion/isotope-ratio-mass-spectrometry) conclusively revealed the administration of exogenous testosterone or its precursors, even if the testosterone glucuronide/epitestosterone glucuronide (T/E) ratio and steroid marker concentrations were below the cut-off values defined by World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). To argue against this adverse analytical finding, the athletes recognized having used T. terrestris in their diet. In order to test this hypothesis, two female volunteers ingested 500 mg of T. terrestris, three times a day and for two consecutive days. All spot urines were collected during 48 h after the first intake. The (13)C/(12)C ratio of ketosteroids was determined by GC/C/IRMS, the T/E ratio and DHEA concentrations were measured by GC/MS and LH concentrations by radioimmunoassay. None of these parameters revealed a significant variation or increased above the WADA cut-off limits. Hence, the short-term treatment with T. terrestris showed no impact on the endogenous testosterone metabolism of the two subjects.

Agreed.

Not this again...