TRT gurus promoting High E2

[Zarati]

I am a member in a few TRT groups and I see a few TRT gurus promoting high E2 these days.

They don't believe that should even care about E2 and that if someone is experiencing high e2 symptoms, they should just wait til their bodies get used to the high e2

What are your beliefs?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

its more than just "oh they think this...so what do you think?"
Everyone from Dante to weird crazy prep guys like Alex Kikel have looked at numerous studies as well as new anecdotal info.
This isnt just random coaches spouting off random stuff.

And from the info i've seen, it seems like way more BBers are playing in the way too low estrogen zone than the way too high estrogen zone.

 

[Gunsmith]

I am a member in a few TRT groups and I see a few TRT gurus promoting high E2 these days.

What "Gurus" , when you have fucktards like Ameen Alai calling themselves "Guru" it hard to take that word seriously.
I can't see how staying outside the natural normal range would be beneficial in anyway

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I see alot of bodybuilders driving their E2 down with ancillary drugs and i always tell them thats "way too low" you dont need to do that. There is a fine ratio of test to est that people to strive to be in. If NEEDED...I believe in microdosing exemestane 2x a day (morn nite) but when i say microdosing i mean microdosing....low single digit mg used and even then its all based on their testosterone levels

 

[Reno911]

IMO if you have supra physiologic Test levels I think it's just fine to have E2 a little higher. On 200mg Test a week, I don't think most people will have any "high estrogen" symptoms at with Estradiol in the 40-50 range. Now if a guys is more of a natural endomorph and more pear shaped with thicker skin, then maybe Estradiol should stay a little lower (20-25ish).

I think for most guys running 300mg Test or higher per week, they won't have any issues with Estradiol 50-60+ since their total Test levels will be 1500 or higher on those dosages. For me personally, I have never been able to dial in a good AI dosage (Arimdex or Aromasin) without tanking my estrogen. So now I stick with Nolvadex to just plug the receptor rather than crash Estradiol.

Also, for me adding a DHT compound like Mast, Primo, or Winny helps keep things in check. I know people debate this but my lab work over the years confirms that is works "for me". (Note: I try to stay away form Primo and Winny except 1x/year because of the negative affect on lipids).

 

[Deleted member 121863]

I don`t listen to "Guru`s". They are most often either self-proclaimed, or an IG whore, neither means a thing. I prefer medical professionals with real knowledge, RCT studies, you know, SCIENCE.

If the idea of TRT is to get a man back to normal healthy levels, why would that not be the same idea for estrogen?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I see alot of bodybuilders driving their E2 down with ancillary drugs and i always tell them thats "way too low" you dont need to do that. There is a fine ratio of test to est that people to strive to be in. If NEEDED...I believe in microdosing exemestane 2x a day (morn nite) but when i say microdosing i mean microdosing....low single digit mg used and even then its all based on their testosterone levels

I tried truly micro-dosing aromasin (exemestane) at 3mg and 2mg EOD and even that ended up crashing my estrogen after a few months. I think there's no real safe way to take aromasin long-term for me at least. Low estrogen sucks so bad, drains your energy, lowers your sex drive, kills your gains, just generally takes away the benefits of having high test.

Its tough because I personally get estrogen sides if I let my test dose increase without an AI. Then I have to add in nolvadex if I want to continue with the test dose at 300-400mg/week. And that brings with it some negatives. It sucks because when you feel dialed in on 400mg/week test - there's no better feeling. You feel like you can do anything lol, and the progressive overload on your exercises for sure comes with that feeling. But, I chalk up my situation to bad genetics and that I'm not meant to sustain high doses of drugs like pro bodybuilders are. Oh well. I stick to HRT and dry AAS like primo and I'm fine.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

And from the info i've seen, it seems like way more BBers are playing in the way too low estrogen zone than the way too high estrogen zone.

Agreed. But its cuz nobody wants bitch tits

 

[Fa Seeshus]

If you use raloxifene you can let the E2 levels go a little higher without having gyno issues. This has helped keep my good cholesterol levels up and my joints feel better. I can't remember the number without looking at the labs, but now my E2 is right in the normal range. Without the ralox I would be getting nip tenderness at that level.

 

[suppdude]

what dose ralox?

 

[beastmode121]

How much really your estrogen going to go up on a TRT dose? Not much

 

[jeroendebleser]

Regardless of other health-aspects, I feel like total shit if I take anything other than Proviron to lower my E2 so I say fuck that. There are many studies linking AI- and Nolvadex-usage in breast cancer patients to depression so me feeling like shit on them is no coincidence. I'd rather have my E2 way too high than feel like shit (or even worse, be depressed) because of an AI or Nolvadex. They're just not worth it imo.

 

[jeroendebleser]

How much really your estrogen going to go up on a TRT dose? Not much

It really shouldn't be necessary on TRT idd. But 'TRT' these days often seems to be more about getting your test levels as high as possible through legal/prescribed means rather than just getting them in the optimal range for health purposes.

 

[Rogue]

I am a member in a few TRT groups and I see a few TRT gurus promoting high E2 these days.

They don't believe that should even care about E2 and that if someone is experiencing high e2 symptoms, they should just wait til their bodies get used to the high e2

What are your beliefs?

To answer this question SPECIFICALLY.
If you have physical E side effects from TRT, address with a SERM immediately!
If your E is elevated in the range but NO physical side effects. This is SELF RESOLVING in most situations I have seen. Leave it.
E in its upper ranges WITHOUT physical side effect can be beneficial with a constant upper end of the spectrum bio-identical testosterone level.
Successful testosterone Optimization is proper estrogen management.
Not medical advise.

 

[lif22]

To answer this question SPECIFICALLY.
If you have physical E side effects from TRT, address with a SERM immediately!
If your E is elevated in the range but NO physical side effects. This is SELF RESOLVING in most situations I have seen. Leave it.
E in its upper ranges WITHOUT physical side effect can be beneficial with a constant upper end of the spectrum bio-identical testosterone level.
Successful testosterone Optimization is proper estrogen management.
Not medical advise.

Address with a serm and let it stay high?

 

[suppdude]

guys typically getting their bloodwork about 4-5 weeks into a cycle?

 

[muaythai123]

The Importance of Oestrogen in TRT - The Men’s Health Clinic

Micro-dosing Exemestane & Controlling Oestrogen – The Facts & the Why Oestrogens are steroid hormones, and there are various Oestrogens (1). Estradiol (E2) is the...

themenshealthclinic.co.uk

good estrogen post from UK TRT doc. The ratio of T/E is important ... due to environment , use of hcg etc you may need an AI to control e2 but everyone is different.

 

[MethodAir]

its more than just "oh they think this...so what do you think?"
Everyone from Dante to weird crazy prep guys like Alex Kikel have looked at numerous studies as well as new anecdotal info.
This isnt just random coaches spouting off random stuff.

And from the info i've seen, it seems like way more BBers are playing in the way too low estrogen zone than the way too high estrogen zone.

Yes, it's science based. Serum estradiol is largely meaningless:

-tissue aromatizes locally, maintaining estradiol concentrations typically far higher than serum
-serum estradiol can plateau and drop as testosterone continues to rise
-estrogen is neuroprotective while AI is neurodestructive

 

[Fa Seeshus]

what dose ralox?

I use 60mg but that is because I'm doing Ment also. On just a TRT dose of test you might get by with only 30mg and no AI at all.

 

[fitzchivalry]

Yes, it's science based. Serum estradiol is largely meaningless:

-tissue aromatizes locally, maintaining estradiol concentrations typically far higher than serum
-serum estradiol can plateau and drop as testosterone continues to rise
-estrogen is neuroprotective while AI is neurodestructive

This right here. More and more are becoming knowledgeable on this matter.

Unless, there is some sort of groundbreaking study in regards to estrogen, everything points to not controlling