Use of insulin and GH

nuteboy · Oct 5, 2005

Does the use of insulin and GH produce permanent muscle gains?

Example, if a person had used GH and insulin with AAS and decides to stop using AAS, GH and insulin.

Considering he'd still workout and take his protein with other OTC supplements will that person have gained muscle that will stay with him?

PHIL HERNON · Oct 5, 2005

NO

nuteboy said:
Does the use of insulin and GH produce permanent muscle gains?

Example, if a person had used GH and insulin with AAS and decides to stop using AAS, GH and insulin.

Considering he'd still workout and take his protein with other OTC supplements will that person have gained muscle that will stay with him?

ABSOLUTELY NOT

nuteboy · Oct 5, 2005

Phil I sent you an PM. Take a look bro. Thanks

PHIL HERNON said:
ABSOLUTELY NOT

w8tlifterty · Oct 5, 2005

Phil, you think you could explain a little more...
I've always heard with GH, what you get is what you keep....
This is false i know, but maybe you could explain a little more, If ya have the time....

Thanks

nuteboy · Oct 5, 2005

This is what Phil said

Take a look. This is what Phil said as I get up to 285lbs and he said over the years of training some muscle should be kept. See his reply below.

OH, I THINK AT LEAST YOU WILL BE 235. YOU WONT STILL BE 285 THOUGH. YOU WILL KEEP SOME FROM THE HARD TRAINING YOU HAVE DONE OVER THE PASE FEW YEARS FOR SURE.

bigbaldbulldog · Oct 5, 2005

all is lost over time...anything gained fast is lost fast...but ithink you'll loose what you gained just over a longer slower period of time ...JMO..Goodluck and i hope you get and keep the gains you shoot for

manboy270 · Oct 6, 2005

After taking a year off 3 years ago, I can tell you I kissed a good 12-15lbs(I attributed to Ins/gh) good-bye, always coming up short when I resumed light use of the juice. Definitey not permanent in my case. Funny-I had heard the same story though--from the guy selling me the growth!!!

bigbadasian · Oct 6, 2005

Reply

|--[\\\]>-------- Majority of the top competitors that i've talked to have contributed much of the gains due to GH/slin combo. I wish i had more of a structured work schedule, i'd do the slin myself, but my days are so inconsistent(sp)

bigbaldbulldog · Oct 6, 2005

got have a plan do make good gains on this stuff boyzzzzz

jahras12 · Oct 7, 2005

never used either but my client I trained did and he cycled gh alone and he did great on it with nothing else added- got leaner and more muscular- but when he came off the leanness dissappeared a little- i think gh/slin is more of a finisher drug 30 y/o and above should use- only for the top elite imo- truthfully test can build some much denser and longer lasting muscle and you ll still have a lot of cash left over! but, nute you are way past that level so its your choice to drop it all or keep on it-

gorilla2015 · Oct 7, 2005

Nuteboy,

In my opinion the longer you hold the weight that you gained ( I am not sure how much you gained) and try to solidify it, you will come in with much more muscle than if you just gained the weight held it for a month a started dieting down. If you held that weight for a year or more and then stopped using everything you will hold new muscle as long as you trained and ate enough to maintain that new muscle . I disagree that GH will not build new muscle, It will if you take enough of it and take it long enough( 2-3 years ) . The cost for maybe 10- 15 lbs of permanent muscle( maybe more with slin added) is not worth it unless you have an unlimitted supply of cash. just my 2 cents

Qwert · Oct 7, 2005

gorilla2015 said:
Nuteboy,

In my opinion the longer you hold the weight that you gained ( I am not sure how much you gained) and try to solidify it, you will come in with much more muscle than if you just gained the weight held it for a month a started dieting down. If you held that weight for a year or more and then stopped using everything you will hold new muscle as long as you trained and ate enough to maintain that new muscle . I disagree that GH will not build new muscle, It will if you take enough of it and take it long enough( 2-3 years ) . The cost for maybe 10- 15 lbs of permanent muscle( maybe more with slin added) is not worth it unless you have an unlimitted supply of cash. just my 2 cents

You're dead on. The longer you can maintain your size & condition, the better chance you will have to have those gains soldified. I used to bulk/diet back to back & then take time off. As soon as I would go off, my gains would disappear. ONLY when I bulked for 3-4+ months & didn't diet afterwards, was when my gains were more solid. Now I do mini 7 day DNP diets within my longer 4-6 month cycles & my gains are much more long lasting.

nuteboy · Oct 7, 2005

For me guys I started using AAS at the age of 27. Before that I just used creatine and some androstein products. I started lifting weights at the age of 22yrs old.

At 22yrs old I weighed 177lbs. With just the use of creatine and OTC products such as androstein I gained 23lbs of muscle. At the age of 27yrs old I weighed 200lbs.

Not bad for natural building, huh? I mean 23lbs of solid muscle in five years. That's like 4.6lbs a year.

I wasn't even taking protein supplements, lol. Any way at the age of 27yrs old I started using AAS. I maxed my weight at 256lbs. Early this year I started using insulin ( with GH). I managed to reach 282lbs.

Now if I stopped using EVERYTHING and took two or three years off I don't think I'd go back to 200lbs as I was at the age of 27. I'm now 33yrs old.

If I continue to workout and take protein and OTC products I should at least walk around at 220lbs, yes or no?

Remember I built 23lbs of solid muscle drug free. In fact, I think had I not taken any drugs and continued to train naturally I would have at least reached 210 or 215lbs of solid muscle at my current age of 33.

I was still growing and the OTC supplements was working. But hey when I started the AAS my weight jumped quick.

I think if you started lifting "naturally" and built a frame "NATURALLY" and began AAS at a late age ( as I did) once you stop you can walk around at a good muscle weight which should be over 200lbs.

OTC supplements do work. I mean remember I wasn't even taking protein during my early to mid 20's and I gained 23lbs of natural muscle. Going from 177lbs to 200lbs.

I think guys who start using AAS at an early age ( as teenagers) don't allow themselves to naturally grow.

During my early years ( and remember I'm 6-foot with long arms) naturally I could bench 300lbs and squat 385lbs for reps.

This was all NATURAL. I mean I'm not saying I'm a natural Ronnie Coleman however it says I was probably better than the average guy.

Naturally I already had 17.5" arms. Not too bad and above average, right?

Kahn · Oct 7, 2005

Nuteboy, I think the 23 lbs you gained would have been done without anything but training. As far as what you'll keep, I think the 220 mark is very reasonable. I went along the lines you did and hold 210 clean from a starting weight of 172. I never played with gh or insulin and never will but I see that you can change your standing weight if you keep it higher than normal for a good length of time. I can't imagine being 170anything again. At 40, I'm giving big another shot this yr. I'll hold the weight through next summer with all our tricks and maintain what I can, hoping to be bigger than average through my 40's. Then, you know, have a couple more kids and take a run at the Olympia.

jahras12 · Oct 7, 2005

kahn is right- after being over 260lbs from stupid bulking over the last couple of years and gaining fat and a lot of muscle I finally stayed lean in the offseason and kept my shape and kept gaining right- although not naturally , but even if i came off i dont think I would ever be "small" again- just too much time put in to lose those gains- yes you will lose size, but you will lose more size from not training or not eating than not taking drugs- just think about that-also I dont want to be nosey but what were your dosages on both the gh and slin and why the sudden change of mind to come off?

nuteboy · Oct 7, 2005

jahras12 said:
kahn is right- after being over 260lbs from stupid bulking over the last couple of years and gaining fat and a lot of muscle I finally stayed lean in the offseason and kept my shape and kept gaining right- although not naturally , but even if i came off i dont think I would ever be "small" again- just too much time put in to lose those gains- yes you will lose size, but you will lose more size from not training or not eating than not taking drugs- just think about that-also I dont want to be nosey but what were your dosages on both the gh and slin and why the sudden change of mind to come off?

When doing AAS I'd go as high as 750mgs of Test ( per week), one tab of A50 and 300mgs of Deca.

When using insulin and GH I'd go as high as 10IU of slin per day ( four days a week for four weeks) and 2Ius of GH per day for 6 days a week ( for four weeks).

I'd like to come off to have a kid. I'm thinking about a year or two. Gotta try to get that little girl ( or boy).

jahras12 · Oct 7, 2005

this is what i though- pregnancy- but i have personally been around people who were doing shows and on year round and had kids, but also better safe then sorry- just my two cents- but the dosages look moderate and very respectable for your size- love to see that not a lot of gear is necessary for a huge physique-

jon

nuteboy · Oct 7, 2005

jahras12 said:
this is what i though- pregnancy- but i have personally been around people who were doing shows and on year round and had kids, but also better safe then sorry- just my two cents- but the dosages look moderate and very respectable for your size- love to see that not a lot of gear is necessary for a huge physique-

jon

Yeah I want at least one kid. I'd prefer a little girl so I can spoil her and be the big dad with the muscles, lol.

I never took much during cycles as this will sound funny but I hate needles, lol.

Kahn · Oct 7, 2005

The kid is not going to be a problem. Shit, Lee Labrada had a kid and so did Arnold after his juicing days. Mine is a little girl. Being big daddy is kind of fun. I'm just big enough that I catch other dads eyeballing me(and they average ten yrs younger). The make a muscle stuff is funny, too. Their dads don't like that shit. 19" pipes will punk a dude out(especially when mom goes wow and grabs it). Hey, its tuff being us isn't it?

nuteboy · Oct 7, 2005

Kahn said:
The kid is not going to be a problem. Shit, Lee Labrada had a kid and so did Arnold after his juicing days. Mine is a little girl. Being big daddy is kind of fun. I'm just big enough that I catch other dads eyeballing me(and they average ten yrs younger). The make a muscle stuff is funny, too. Their dads don't like that shit. 19" pipes will punk a dude out(especially when mom goes wow and grabs it). Hey, its tuff being us isn't it?

LOL, hell yeah I'd agree. Too funny about the 19" arms.