Using an antiestrogen?

[Researchstop]

So with aromasin reducing estrogen, raising test, and raising GH would it be reasonable to concider using a daily 12.5mg dose of aromasin as a bridge between cycles?

Yes, it's pretty common actually. Keep in mind though that although Exemastane (Aromasin) is going to raise your Test levels, it's only going to raise them to the high side of normal and it will not substitute for using low dose Test (250mg/wk) to bridge.

 

[roodogg]

Letro is very harsh on your lipid profile not sure about long term usage of aromasin. I have used aromasin for pct only and arimidex during supplementation

 

[jdchaffin]

Yes, it's pretty common actually. Keep in mind though that although Exemastane (Aromasin) is going to raise your Test levels, it's only going to raise them to the high side of normal and it will not substitute for using low dose Test (250mg/wk) to bridge.

I was under the impression that a dose of 100mg/week of test would put someone with low test into the upper 25% of what is called "normal"
Is that incorrect?
The claim that aromasin can produce results up to 200mg/week equivalent would seem to be higher than what most of us would hope for.

 

[jdchaffin]

I'm not the most adept at reading these research articles but I thought this one claimed that doses of 25-50mg/week of test e put men into what was a "normal" range.

Title: Daily testosterone and gonadotropin levels are similar in azoospermic and nonazoospermic normal men administered weekly testosterone: implications for male contraceptive development
Author: Matsumoto, Alvin M.; Bremner, William J.; Amory, John K.; Anawalt, Bradley D.
Abstract: Weekly intramuscular administration of testosterone esters such as testosterone enanthate (TE) suppresses gonadotropins and spermatogenesis and has been studied as a male contraceptive. For unknown reasons, however, some men fail to achieve azoospermia with such regimens. We hypothesized that either 1) daily circulating serum fluoroimmunoreactive gonadotropins were higher or testosterone levels were lower during the weekly injection interval, or 2) monthly circulating bioactive gonadotropin levels were higher in nonazoospermic men. We therefore analyzed daily testosterone and fluoroimmunoreactive gonadotropin levels as well as pooled monthly bioactive and fluoroimmunoreactive gonadotropin levels in normal men receiving chronic TE injections and correlated these levels with sperm production. After a 3-month control period, 51 normal men were randomly assigned to receive intramuscular TE at 25 mg (n = 10), 50 mg (n = 9), 100 mg (n = 10), 300 mg (n = 10), or placebo (n = 12) weekly for 6 months. After 5 months of testosterone administration, morning testosterone and fluoroimmunoreactive follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels were measured daily for a 1-week period between TE injections. In addition, fluoroimmunoreactive and bioactive FSH and LH levels were measured in pooled monthly blood samples drawn just before the next TE injection. In the 100-mg and 300-mg TE groups, mean monthly fluoroimmunoreactive FSH and LH levels were suppressed by 86%-97%, bioactive FSH and LH levels by 62%-80%, and roughly half the subjects became azoospermic. In the 1-week period of month 6, daily testosterone levels between TE injections were within the normal range in men receiving placebo, or 25 or 50 mg of weekly TE, but were significantly elevated in men receiving 100 or 300 mg of weekly TE. At no point during treatment, however, were there significant differences in daily testosterone or fluoroimmunoreactive gonadotropin levels, or monthly bioactive gonadotropin levels between men achieving azoospermia and those with persistent spermatogenesis. This study, therefore, demonstrates that neither monthly nor daily differences in serum testosterone, or fluoroimmunoreactive or bioactive gonadotropins explain why some men fail to completely suppress their sperm counts to zero with weekly TE administration. Innate differences in the testicle's ability to maintain spermatogenesis in a low-gonadotropin environment may explain persistent spermatogenesis in some men treated with androgen-based contraceptive regimens.
URI: http://hdl.handle.net/1773/4372
Date: 2001-11

 

[Researchstop]

I was under the impression that a dose of 100mg/week of test would put someone with low test into the upper 25% of what is called "normal"
Is that incorrect?
The claim that aromasin can produce results up to 200mg/week equivalent would seem to be higher than what most of us would hope for.

Let me start with, there is no formula. What gives me an 800 T level might give you a 400 T level. In that study you're not looking at the results of healthy men, you're looking at men who don't make Test. So they're different than both of us.
Since the average male produces 35mg/wk, 100mg of Enanthate, which I believe is 76mg of Test, (someone correct me if I remember this incorrectly) should yield considerably higher than normal range. But you know what? It depends on the day you measure it too. Enanthate peaks on the 2nd day so if you get tested on the 7th day your levels may be in the normal range.
There is clinical research that proves what you posted. 25mg/day of Exemestane = 200mg/wk of TE.

 

[Macro]

3-7 mg of test per day in adult males, though althetic males and those with lower aromatase levels likely fall in the 5-13mg range.

 

[King-kong]

RS,
Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions from the members of the board. I just received your product (amazingly fast) for a research project on my dog. I had pain - I meant he had pain in the nip areas while on cycle - tren test eq. (ed aromasin), and wasn't sure if it was prolactin related or estrogen related. We ordered letro - and pramipexole. After one dose of each (only about .25-.30 ml of each) the pain is down to about half of what it was. He hates taking the letro but hope this will aid in the minimizing of a small lump - by feel only, not visible. The more I am thinking about it - since aromasin was taken the entire time it must be prolactin related. Should I drop the letro and just stick with the pramipexole? The letro has been known to remove lumps and that is why it was purchased as well. I would sure hate to see my dog lose his libido. --- Also wanted to note - some years back I ordered a research product elsewhere - that was for my fish - and the bottle came in and was small as anything. I was very impressed with the quantity of product and bottle size ---- thanks again.

 

[Researchstop]

No, don't stop the Letro. At 6.25mg your dog shouldn't have a libido problem. And the Prami is going drive up his libido like the crazy animal he is.

RS,
Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions from the members of the board. I just received your product (amazingly fast) for a research project on my dog. I had pain - I meant he had pain in the nip areas while on cycle - tren test eq. (ed aromasin), and wasn't sure if it was prolactin related or estrogen related. We ordered letro - and pramipexole. After one dose of each (only about .25-.30 ml of each) the pain is down to about half of what it was. He hates taking the letro but hope this will aid in the minimizing of a small lump - by feel only, not visible. The more I am thinking about it - since aromasin was taken the entire time it must be prolactin related. Should I drop the letro and just stick with the pramipexole? The letro has been known to remove lumps and that is why it was purchased as well. I would sure hate to see my dog lose his libido. --- Also wanted to note - some years back I ordered a research product elsewhere - that was for my fish - and the bottle came in and was small as anything. I was very impressed with the quantity of product and bottle size ---- thanks again.

 

[donjoy]

Hypothetically if one were to administer these research chems to a labrat, orally would work correct?

 

[jimmyjones]

Hypothetically if one were to administer these research chems to a labrat, orally would work correct?

These are oral and oral only, non injectibles

 

[nickman...]

so is it not a good idea to use nolvadex at 10mgs a day through out the cycle. Cycle is weaks 1-12 test e at 500 mgs a weak....
weaks 1-4 d bol at 50 mgs a day ....

 

[rubix]

I ran 500iu's HCG every 5 days beginning on week 4 `til the end of my cycle and kept A-Dex on hand for just in case. Best cycle ever; no crash, no depression, loss of libido, loss of gains (just 5 lbs water). Standard Clomid/Nolva for pct.

 

[SpudToStud]

so is it not a good idea to use nolvadex at 10mgs a day through out the cycle. Cycle is weaks 1-12 test e at 500 mgs a weak....
weaks 1-4 d bol at 50 mgs a day ....

there is no need for it unless you are 1.) Prone to gyno, 2.) seeing signs of gyno

Nolva will do nothing but help to stop gyno it is not an Anti-E like Aromasin for example. All it will do is block the E from reaching the breast tissue

personally id keep it on hand for when your natty test levles are so low and you stopped using your test inj, so durring first few weeks of PCT is when it is most commonly used

 

[ledawg]

Question for RS.....I'm going to do a 20 week cycle of Test E 250mg/wk and deca 200mg/wk. This cycle always works well for me. What would be a solid pct for a cycle like this? Also, do I need an AI like aromasin during the cycle? Thanks.

 

[Ironraider]

Bump...great thread...

Any more input?

 

[Macro]

Question for RS.....I'm going to do a 20 week cycle of Test E 250mg/wk and deca 200mg/wk. This cycle always works well for me. What would be a solid pct for a cycle like this? Also, do I need an AI like aromasin during the cycle? Thanks.

most people feel that 2:1 t:n is better. need is relative. the use of at low dose aromasin/exemestane would be advisable.

clomid 50mg- 3-4 weeks, no front load.

prami might be a good idea, at least to have on hand if issues from nandrolone present. depends on previous experience.... though as many know generally reccomend prami, whether you truly "need" it or not. GH benefits alone certainly make it a welcome addition to any cycle.

 

[jdchaffin]

most people feel that 2:1 t:n is better. need is relative. the use of at low dose aromasin/exemestane would be advisable.

clomid 50mg- 3-4 weeks, no front load.

prami might be a good idea, at least to have on hand if issues from nandrolone present. depends on previous experience.... though as many know generally reccomend prami, whether you truly "need" it or not. GH benefits alone certainly make it a welcome addition to any cycle.

Just a quick question. In the study showing prami increasing GH, was this present in all participants? I know there will be varying degrease of increase but I was wondering mostly if some people showed no increase.

 

[Researchstop]

Just a quick question. In the study showing prami increasing GH, was this present in all participants? I know there will be varying degrease of increase but I was wondering mostly if some people showed no increase.

The full study is in the AF Library.
http://www.afboard.com/library/prami-affects.pdf

 

[jdchaffin]

The full study is in the AF Library.
http://www.afboard.com/library/prami-affects.pdf

thanks!!
This is what I really appretiate about your posts.

 

[Macro]

thanks!!
This is what I really appretiate about your posts.

he's a helper