**Very Serious MENTAL Health Dangers Prolonged Caber/ Prami Use **

[kloan]

Interesting.. I was curious about the long term interactions caber would have with dopamine levels.

 

[nixon0808]

I thought we talked about this in another thread before. Wasn't this at like 1mg per day dosage?
Or am I think of something else that was caber related

The dosage has little to do with it. The only thing dosage dictates is how fast this permenant damage with occur. You could take only .25mg a week of caber and becuase your agonising your dopamine receptors in a unnatural way and will hence have superphyilogical levels of dopamines attatching to those receptors, downreguation and eventually cell death will occur.

Nixon

 

[Simpllyhuge]

What about drugs like Zoloft that at higher dosages 100 and up have significant dopamine activity. I guess those would be a problem as well.

 

[TractionIssues]

The dosage has little to do with it. The only thing dosage dictates is how fast this permenant damage with occur. You could take only .25mg a week of caber and becuase your agonising your dopamine receptors in a unnatural way and will hence have superphyilogical levels of dopamines attatching to those receptors, downreguation and eventually cell death will occur.

Nixon

I get what youre saying here, but it is as if you are trying to say "any amount" of excess dopamine will instantly create receptor suicide. But that is not true. It's important to know how much dopamine could be created in excess and how, with what dosage. Because it can be completely possible that the increase for most people may not even be higher than what the most their brains can handle. Yes it might cause some small spikes, but will that be enough to cause serious damage or even shutdown your dopamine system for the rest of your life? Highly doubt it. By the way when researching this myself, the patients examined that "might" have a problem that "could have" come from caber regarding dopamine levels, were taking 2.5-5 grams per day over 3-5 years. That is 70x to 140x the amount usually taken for bb'ing purposes over many years, compared to a couple of weeks. If you can show actual knowledge and research of these studies that prove that it can be dangerous at the doses used by bb'ers, I would love to read about them.

 

[fitnessjess]

the dosages would make a difference. youre not going to see the same type of downregulation with .5 mg of prami as you would with 2 grams. higher doses equal a higher release of dopamine. its just like saying youd have the same effect on your receptors doing one line of coke a day as compared to a whole gram every day. i guess long term it could have the same effect but that could be the difference between 5 years and 30 years. but like i said before, who in a bodybuilding setting would be using prami or caber for that long?

 

[nixon0808]

What about drugs like Zoloft that at higher dosages 100 and up have significant dopamine activity. I guess those would be a problem as well.

Ok, so I had written a nice 4 paragragh explanation tying in SSRI's, dopamine agonists, cocaine, receptors and all this fancy talk and my computer shut down, so in my retyping Im going to be very short and sweet.

Basically what I was saying in my post was ssri's like zoloft (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and DRI's like cocaine (dopamine reuptake inhibitor) do not have the possibility to cause long term damage to their respective neurotransmitters nearly to the degree that serotonin agonists (MDMA) and dopamine agonists do (prami, caber) because of the way they work in the brain.

Reuptake inhibitors increase levels of neurotransmitters by keeping them from being "eaten up" so to speak by the body, so their respective receptors arnt dealing with superphysilogical levels which leads to downregulation and death.

This is why you don't see cell death with long term SSRI treatment which is the go to for a lot of practitioners. The body's serotonin level is essentially the same, it just stays active in the important parts of the brain much longer.

Agonists (think triggers release of) flood the brain with superphysilogical levels of dopamine and thats were the danger occurs in regards to downregulation and death.

My first explanation was a lot more thought out and clear, im in a rush if you have any questions let me know
Nixon

 

[Cerberus777]

I'm a former coke addict so I know what down regulation feels like. Taking caber at .5 2-3 times a week increases dopamine about as high as a good wining streak. So that would meen the Ravens have perment damage since they won the supper bowl?

Most the down regulation studies are on people who already have issues Parkinson's, RLS already have reseptor issue.

I take it 12weeks on 4 weeks off without issue

 

[builtbeast]

Post studies showing a permanent downregulation with the doses that most of us employ. You can speculate and spew whatever conjecture you want about any dose producing supraphysiological levels that then cause permanent damage. But show us proof. More needless speculation and scare mongering. Maybe I'll just use anecdotal evidence as well. Having ran dopamine agonists for 6 months at a time I was perfectly fine afterwards. :banghead:

 

[Fudd]

Food, sex, laughter, exercise, etc etc etc all release dopamine. Should we not do these things daily for more than 3 months at a time? I wouldn't worry about low dose prami/caber use.

 

[TractionIssues]

So do you have any of those studies you say you read? I would still really like to see them. Because it would really be a shame if this was just an idea of yours that you took too seriously and now you started preaching this with no actual evidence. Big flashing title and all...

 

[pryde]

good discussion here

 

[Supa Diesel g33k]

Very good info and discussion here. Def explains some sides I get after using prami for a extended period of time.

 

[taslajrisi]

In my opinion alternating wouldn't make a difference. They're both very potent dopamine agonists. There's something very worrysome about pure Dopamine agonists(caber,prami) even as opposed to other dopaminergenic drugs (cocaine, speed, adderall etc) as far as long term damage to the dopamine system

Nixon

I have had a hard time taking these (or bromo) for a long time or at a high dose due to some sides. Selegiline (an MAOI) actually extends life and can be taken long term at low doses.

 

[triathloncoach]

This makes sense to me and my sample size of 1. I used to think it was just the Tren that was responsible for the adverse psychiatric sides, but I began to think about a year ago that the Prami made me feel badly as well. No more Tren or Prami for me. Whatever the studies may say. That is powerful stuff.

 

[Beaver]

Great Post!

A great post !

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Thanks I was asking because Zoloft is the or one of the only SSRIs that has a large increase in dopamine over 100 mg, Wellbutrin also but not close to
As much as Zoloft.

 

[nixon0808]

I'm a former coke addict so I know what down regulation feels like. Taking caber at .5 2-3 times a week increases dopamine about as high as a good wining streak. So that would meen the Ravens have perment damage since they won the supper bowl?

Most the down regulation studies are on people who already have issues Parkinson's, RLS already have reseptor issue.

I take it 12weeks on 4 weeks off without issue

You're right, like I said before, for a lot of users on here who's cycles don't consist of using caber for more than 2-3 months at a time should be fine regarding permenent damage. Yes there 100% will be some downregulation from 2-3 months consitent use, but the body is an amzaing creature and should be able to return them to within normal levels within weeks/months.

Users who run longer cycles or cruise and use caber/prami for a sustained amount of time are were permanent issues could start showing up.

Nixon

 

[nixon0808]

Post studies showing a permanent downregulation with the doses that most of us employ. You can speculate and spew whatever conjecture you want about any dose producing supraphysiological levels that then cause permanent damage. But show us proof. More needless speculation and scare mongering. Maybe I'll just use anecdotal evidence as well. Having ran dopamine agonists for 6 months at a time I was perfectly fine afterwards. :banghead:

Look builtbeast, Im not trying to stir up any type of shit. If this information offends you, then by all means, disregard it and use caber for 5 years straight, I dont care. Im very knowledgeble in the area of neurochemistry and Im simply trying to HELP people understand these potent dopamine agonists.

Nixon

 

[nixon0808]

Food, sex, laughter, exercise, etc etc etc all release dopamine. Should we not do these things daily for more than 3 months at a time? I wouldn't worry about low dose prami/caber use.

Look, Im not going to try and argue with someone that is obviously so far undereducated on neurochemistry, its simply a waste of my time. Do your research and then come back to me with an educated question.

Endogenous dopamine release (sex, laughter) is governed by the body and will not allow for superphysilogical levels becuase the body knows the perfect balence and does not want to have to downregulate itself. So you can eat, laugh and have as much sex as you want and you'll never reach superphysilogical levels.

The same even goes for precusers to dopamine such as tyrosine and l-dopa. You can take tub by tub of tyrosine and the body is only going to sythesize as much dopamine as it see's fit.

Now enter dopamine agonists. These drugs could care less the delicate balence the body "wants" and simply demands it to deploy more dopamine leading to problems with long term use.

Ive wasted way too much time explaining this to you. Please remove yourself from the rest of this thread.Nixon

 

[nixon0808]

This makes sense to me and my sample size of 1. I used to think it was just the Tren that was responsible for the adverse psychiatric sides, but I began to think about a year ago that the Prami made me feel badly as well. No more Tren or Prami for me. Whatever the studies may say. That is powerful stuff.

What made me start this topic is I feel so many people are ingnorant of what these drugs actually are. They simply think " oh nice, this will block my prolactin, great!!" I started this topic after seeing a thread on another forum with a guy asking if there whould be a problem to run caber for a year straight. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?! The thing is about 10 people replied without offereing any type of insight. Thats just scary. The ignorance is just beyond me.

Nixon