What's the crash like?

[jsr2188]

this is a newb question i know. but i am in fact still a newb. i know everyone is different but i'm wondering what coming off my first cycle will be like. i will find out myself soon enough but i'm curious to see if the crash is that much different from person to person. i'm 21 years old (i know) and i ran test E at 500mg a week for about 14 weeks. 14 weeks of injections. i am/was satisfied with this first cycle. my last shot was 10 days ago. i understand there is still some in my system. my question is, what can i expect now?

obviously i'll loose bodyweight because of loss of water retention. but will i go down 20 pounds on bench, deadlift, etc? Or will i just be stuck on the same weight on everything for awhile? again, i know everyone is different. i'm not looking for exact numbers here. just want to know what i have to look forward to so i'm not too discouraged when it happens because i'll be prepared. does the fact that i'm young and this is my first cycle, and the fact that my first cycle consisted of just test at just 500mg a week, make a difference in my recovery? i'm planning on eating like crazy and taking some creatine and maybe some glutamine to keep from loosing too much.

to me, this question isn't stupid, because i don't know the answer. i know i will find out myself soon enough. since this is my first cycle and now it's ended i obviously never experienced the coming off phase so i just would appreciate some feedback, with minimal flaming haha. i wonder if i'm overthinking here and if this won't be as bad as i'm expecting.

by the way, for PCT i have my nolva and clomid. one more thing, i understand "time on = time off" but do i really have to wait 3 months, would 2 be alright? thanks.

 

[oldfella]

Bro no one should flame you for this post! It is a legit question that does deserve and answer. The key to not crashing and burning is in your diet and training. Keep training intensly and heavy, keep eatring hard to drive your metabolism and even when you don't feel like training, if it is a training day go to it. This requires a hell of a lot of discipline and consistancy will see you over the hump. Try to keep a positive mental outlook at all times. The crash is what it is. And yes everyone is different. Just train as hard as you can safely and eat a good clean diet. You will be surprised at how well this strategy will work.

 

[alecaf]

bro HCG is great! get it and you won't crash. Here is what i did:
Example:
Wk 1-12 --> your cycle dose, then stop everything but the test
Wk 12-16 --> lower test to 150-250
Wks 8-16 --> HCG at 500 2x a week.
Then do your clomid and nolva, which in my case i didn't even do and libido was as good as 250wk and strength didnt go down by much. I also take more glutamine than normal when coming off. Then listen to your body and start when another cycle when ready. Listening to your body means asking questions to yourself such as: Are my energy levels normal? is my libido normal? hunger? Have I kept a steady weight?
Also blood tests would be great. check test levels and all the other shit steroids can affect.

 

[jsr2188]

well thanks guys these are the types of responses i was hoping for. i wish i had some HCG though. too late now. definitly for next time. there is quite a bit of "shrinkage" going on which is why i wish i had HCG even more. i understand when they're smaller they can't function at their best. will the clomid and nolva take care of that quickly though?

 

[buselmo]

you know when you are expecting an A+ in a university course and you get hit with a hard C-? you know that feeling? yeah, you'll be feeling like that a lot for no reason.

As OldFella said, you have to stick to training and diet even if you feel that you don't want to. just like the example above, you can just lose it and say "fuck it, it's not worth it... working hard to get a bad grade... i won't study as hard as i used to" and just get worse grades later on... same with this stuff... you will get the mentality of "why train hard and diet hard to lose everything in the end? i'm just gonna half ass it"... you will lose your gains and feel worse if you give in to that mentality.
just be strong and keep on training hard and dieting, and you'll be back to normal in no time

 

[Thor]

ALL GOOD ANSWERS

You will lose some strength yes, and you will lose some size, but you can save as much as possible by eating the same amount or MORE when you come off, also I would start the nolva and clo right after your last shot. and you can take 2 months OFF instead of 3 , but time on = time off is best.
BTW my answers come from my own experience, and there is no way to tell how much you will lose, but I used to eat less and lift less because I thought "well since I am off I dont need as much food" WRONG! Gotta feed the new muscle or you'll lose it. good Luck and don't sweat it, keep us posted.

 

[jsr2188]

when does time off start? does it start right after your last shot, 2 weeks after your last shot when the hormones are out of your system, or 5 weeks after your last shot after PCT?

 

[Baal]

I've always assumed it started after your last shot. As PCT = post cycle therapy implying the cycle is over.

 

[tatteredxangelx]

your going to feel like shit ... worst feeling in the world IMO ... going to feel like all your work for the past 3 months was worthless, but after you get past it and realize you were further along than where you were to begin with it wont be so bad anymore.

 

[Quad-smack]

It takes about 6 half-lives to get most everything out of your system. With test-e it will take about 45-60 days. IMO, any "crash" you feel at 2 weeks is psycho-somatic.
I have heard that as your anabolic levels fall, then your catabolic hormones (cortisol, etc.) elevate. One of the better and cheapest cortisol supressors is Vitamin C. Cortisol peaks in the morning so if you take 1g vitamin C with breakfast and another 500mg with lunch it will help.
BCAA's work wonders - try 5g BCAA's with about 20g dextrose to pop insulin & mTOR. Try that 2 or 3 times through the day.
Off cycle is also a good time to utilize creatine, such as kre-alkalyn.
Decrease your volume accordingly. Off cycle it is much easier to over-train.
Good luck.

 

[Papa Van Smack]

its not big deal bro, i can understand why you're concerned, you're probably already going through it right now and you don't even know. I usually take supplements when i come off....NO explode, Size On, or some shit. I never take the supps w/ gear, i just eat, so they kind of help to offset the loss of gains.

 

[Lenny]

If assume and expect the crash, it will screw you up mentally. So, just keep training and eating enough to recover. Drop you volume and train hard. Do not stop eating, make sure to keep the meals coming to keep the metabolism firing. Stay focused and keep enjoy the training.

 

[abolish the weak]

500 mg/wk test e ,wont be bad for you. Especially as a beginner, it got worse for me after several cycles and longer cycles. Now, I found a wonderful trick to use to avoid crashing, it's called primobolan. Even if you can only get 1 bottle of it, use it for about 3-4 wks after you stop your test, totally makes u feel great and stops crashing

 

[jimmyjones]

Is it possible to retain 100% of your gains or is that unheard of? If you keep your training hard after cycle and diet is still good, what is normal percentage of gains that are kept?

 

[bigguns078]

Is it possible to retain 100% of your gains or is that unheard of? If you keep your training hard after cycle and diet is still good, what is normal percentage of gains that are kept?

Very good question... But what do you consider gains?? Muscle, total weight, strength????

As a bodybuilder i look mostly at muscle.. Say i did a 13 week cycle of test.. I started at 220.. Then ended at 240.. If i gain 5 lbs of muscle in that cycle and can keep 5 lbs i am very happy... Even if i keep 3 lbs.. That is pretty good.. The other 15 lbs of water, fat, etc.. I really don't care about..

Strength?? That i somewhat care about also... If before my cycle i was squatting 300lbs for 10 reps.. Then at the end of my cycle i was squatting 400lbs for 10 reps.. Considering i kept the same diet... Obviously my strength will go down a percentage.. (great topic to discuss.. how to maximize strength after cycle).. So say 2 months after my cycle i am squatting 375lbs for 10 reps.. I would be very happy with that result.... That would indicate i indeed gained some quality muscle because i am consistently stronger... Plus i now have the natural potential to gain muscle because i am consistently lifting more weight than before i started my cycle...

I don't know the exact science about muscle growth... (Maybe it is explained in full detail in another post..) But personally... When i start increasing my total poundages for a lift.. or introduce a new unique lift... i sometimes see new growth.. or muscle swell.. From personal example.. This offseason.. I introduced reverse grip smythe bench presses in my routine.. dc style... And after my first workout.. my outside tricep head was swollen and pumped like i have never seen.. Its that rare glorious time in the gym that you feel like a million bucks.. I think it if i stopped doing reverse grip smythe presses.. I would have never matured my muscle and that swell/pump would have been temporary.. But i continued to tax that exercise in my routine and got stronger on other tricep exercises... Now.. 3 months down the road.. I see permanent gains! My tricep head doesn't stick out like it did when it was fully pumped with blood and water, but i notice a definite permanent difference..

So from personal experience.. muscle growth starts to develop when a new stimulus is introduced (heavier weight or new unique exercise that works for me)... But for the muscle to keep the new gains and mature.. You must consistently use those poundages for some time so the body can adapt and permanently grow new muscle fibers/tissue.. not sure of the right technical term...

This only holds true.. If you are eating adaquate protein..

 

[klowndog]

Good post guns.

 

[tkav1980]

the crash Isnt purly mental but to think of it that way helps. yeah you have to do everything else right, keep the cals up, train hard, lower volume, but thinking of it as a mental barrier more than a physical one always helps me. stay away from the scale until a week or 2 until your next cycle. your best friend at this time will be a positive mental outlook.

 

[jsr2188]

well i must say some of these posts scare me haha. i'm not worried too much though. i'll just eat like crazy. maybe even more then i was eating while on. train hard and consistantly whether i want to or not, and i'll grab some BCAA and some glutamine anything that will help.

 

[alecaf]

another thing to consider is this, Emeric and Dave advocate taking lower dosages for longer times. Then, if you apply BaldNazis theory of "the longer you stay big, then your body will adapt to that size and find it easier top keep those gains", it will be reasonable to stay on for a couple of months (6 mnts) on a not so suppressive dose ie. 250-400wk with hcg the whole time. This way you keep your gains by prolonging the time you are the larger size (BN theory) while also staying at a low dose which will make your body bounce back easier.

Here is BN's theory which i find very reasonable:

Anyway, my theory is that the longer you stay at a higher bodyweight, in particular a massive muscular bodyweight, the body adapts to hold onto and keep this size. The longer you can keep it here new muscular memory takes place, and you will be able to get this level of mass again and keep more mass when you cut. I think I read this before but I wanted to hear what the consensus was.
from the thread http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36633

Also man, if you are young bouncing back is a lot easier than if you are 40+.