What's the least amount of hGH necessary to see gains over peptide use?

[Landmonster]

Assume that a bodybuilder had never tried hGH, and only had experience with peptides. He has been using the standard GH protocol of (ModGRF 100mcg + GHRP-2 100mcg) @ 5 times a day.

For most people, this costs about $100 a month.

Given that peps aren't exactly cheap, the smart bodybuilder questions his allocation of resources.

If he quit using peptides entirely, how many i.u.s of Growth Hormone would it take to replace them, and see new gains?

Alternatively, are GH peptides able to be used synergistically alongside hGH to produce even better gains? Or, would he better off spending all his money on hGH alone?

 

[sammy555]

With slin hgh. Trust me on that. Even 4iu gh daily with slin gives great results

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[raw33man]

4+ ius, at least 4 months

 

[sammy555]

Bear in mind gh isn't anabolic any way so it depends what you mean by gains. Run it with slin your sees results real fast. Do fasted cardio and it will start working from day 1. Is All a question of context. Just shoot gh ed no slin or gear and your very slowly lean up but it's s lot quicker and cheaper just to diet. GH bulking is great for keeping fat off

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[Landmonster]

By gains, I mean, assume someone is running the same dose of AAS alongside either peptides or hGH.

I was hoping it would be synergistically anabolic with the AAS.

 

[Landmonster]

As a follow up question.... how soon should someone integrate hGH into their AAS use?

How many AAS cycles are "necessary" before hGH is useful? Or are they both useful from day 1?

 

[Knight9]

Everyone wants to compare apples to oranges...

Everyone wants to speak and be spoken to in absolutes...


Why dont you explain your situation and then ask if you should use GH and then inquire how much you should use?
If an 19 yr old asked me if he should use GH...I would say no.
If a 38 yr old asked me if he should use it and can benefit from it...I would say yes.

 

[Landmonster]

Everyone wants to compare apples to oranges...

Everyone wants to speak and be spoken to in absolutes...


Why dont you explain your situation and then ask if you should use GH and then inquire how much you should use?
If an 19 yr old asked me if he should use GH...I would say no.
If a 38 yr old asked me if he should use it and can benefit from it...I would say yes.

I didn't think GH peptides and rhGH were "apples and oranges" exactly. GH peptides cause your body to produce your natural growth hormone, whereas rhGH is just synthetic exogenous growth hormone.

They are both a means to the same end, yes?

Where I'm running into problems it that peptides do not seem to be delivering the real-world results I was hoping for.

I'm 30, I started using peptides about 6 months ago due to a few suppositions:
1) GH peptides were cheaper than hGH
2) GH peptides were deemed "safer" than hGH, since A) you were producing only what your body was capable of making, and B) you were producing all the natural forms of hGH, not just 1 form.
3) GH peps were easier and more legal to obtain than hGH.


Foolishly or not, I started using them prior to any AAS use. I worked up to using ModGRF and GHRP-2 5x a day.


I had very stiff and painful joints, swollen hands, carpal tunnel symptoms, etc. I gained about 10lbs of weight... and the side effects slowly dissipated. I noticed a slight bit of fat loss, but nothing shocking. The best thing was that my strength increased across the board, and I was setting dramatic PRs on all my lifts. That size and strength leveled off after a while, and I haven't ever experienced any new gains or fat loss yet, but the size and weight gain have remained.


After several months of peptide use, I decided to "take the plunge" and do my first AAS cycle. I was willing to accept more risks. I did Test/Deca/Dbol... and my strength and size increased again to where I am now.

The peps are costing are costing about $100 a month, and I can't tell if they are doing much anymore.

I'm wondering if I should have just used hGH to begin with, or switch over to it now.


I've been training 12 years, and I was at a plateau before peptide or AAS use. I'm not some total noob who doesn't know how things affect their body.

 

[Landmonster]

Also, money isn't really an issue here.

I just want to avoid wasting it wherever possible.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I didn't think GH peptides and rhGH were "apples and oranges" exactly. GH peptides cause your body to produce your natural growth hormone, whereas rhGH is just synthetic exogenous growth hormone.

They are both a means to the same end, yes?

Where I'm running into problems it that peptides do not seem to be delivering the real-world results I was hoping for.

I'm 30, I started using peptides about 6 months ago due to a few suppositions:
1) GH peptides were cheaper than hGH
2) GH peptides were deemed "safer" than hGH, since A) you were producing only what your body was capable of making, and B) you were producing all the natural forms of hGH, not just 1 form.
3) GH peps were easier and more legal to obtain than hGH.


Foolishly or not, I started using them prior to any AAS use. I worked up to using ModGRF and GHRP-2 5x a day.


I had very stiff and painful joints, swollen hands, carpal tunnel symptoms, etc. I gained about 10lbs of weight... and the side effects slowly dissipated. I noticed a slight bit of fat loss, but nothing shocking. The best thing was that my strength increased across the board, and I was setting dramatic PRs on all my lifts. That size and strength leveled off after a while, and I haven't ever experienced any new gains or fat loss yet, but the size and weight gain have remained.


After several months of peptide use, I decided to "take the plunge" and do my first AAS cycle. I was willing to accept more risks. I did Test/Deca/Dbol... and my strength and size increased again to where I am now.

The peps are costing are costing about $100 a month, and I can't tell if they are doing much anymore.

I'm wondering if I should have just used hGH to begin with, or switch over to it now.


I've been training 12 years, and I was at a plateau before peptide or AAS use. I'm not some total noob who doesn't know how things affect their body.

If you're going for size and strength, one kit of riptropin a month will do crazy shit and you don't need insulin. 5ius, 5 on, 2 off preworkout put 30Lbs on me without dietary change. Strength goes way up along with nitrogen retention and vascularity. If you want a cleaner look then go with elitropin. Peptides are beneficial for sure but you try a kit of rips and then come back here and tell me how right I was. There is no comparison. I use peps with elis now to keep water retention semi in control, but give rips a try on their own and judge for yourself. You will blow up!

 

[Landmonster]

If you're going for size and strength, one kit of riptropin a month will do crazy shit and you don't need insulin. 5ius, 5 on, 2 off preworkout put 30Lbs on me without dietary change. Strength goes way up along with nitrogen retention and vascularity. If you want a cleaner look then go with elitropin. Peptides are beneficial for sure but you try a kit of rips and then come back here and tell me how right I was. There is no comparison. I use peps with elis now to keep water retention semi in control, but give rips a try on their own and judge for yourself. You will blow up!

I'm going for maximum lean mass.


I highly doubt Rips alone could put 30lbs on me. How long of a period are you talking about?

Also what's the deal with 5 on, two off? Is that a health tactic that people do, or a money-saving tactic?

 

[Knight9]

I'm going for maximum lean mass.


I highly doubt Rips alone could put 30lbs on me. How long of a period are you talking about?

Also what's the deal with 5 on, two off? Is that a health tactic that people do, or a money-saving tactic?

Then use Elis.
5 on, 2 off gives you a kit a month and is in your price range.
GH>Peptides

 

[Michaelthomasj]

I'm going for maximum lean mass.


I highly doubt Rips alone could put 30lbs on me. How long of a period are you talking about?

Also what's the deal with 5 on, two off? Is that a health tactic that people do, or a money-saving tactic?

I love when people ask questions and when they don't hear what they want answer it for themselves. Why would you "highly doubt" you could gain 30lbs. and im assuming it would be in combination with aas. Either way ... he is telling you first hand his experience, and the protocol that worked for him.

 

[Landmonster]

I love when people ask questions and when they don't hear what they want answer it for themselves. Why would you "highly doubt" you could gain 30lbs. and im assuming it would be in combination with aas. Either way ... he is telling you first hand his experience, and the protocol that worked for him.

Well, in combination with an unknown amount of AAS, sure.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I'm going for maximum lean mass.


I highly doubt Rips alone could put 30lbs on me. How long of a period are you talking about?

Also what's the deal with 5 on, two off? Is that a health tactic that people do, or a money-saving tactic?

I gained 30Lbs in 30 days. I was on my usual aas dose and same diet. Rips put a lot of water in the muscle cell much like creatine. You get very strong and look incredibly full and vascular. The negative side is water is also stored in the intestines giving you a bloated turtle shell stomach. Such is life.

The 5 on, 2 off serves multiple purposes. In theory, eod dosing leads to the same results long term as everyday dosing, only there is less receptor downgrade and less antibody build up. I was doing the 5 on,2 off, and in reality it was more that I took 5ius preworkout and nothing on off days, which worked out to 5 days a week, sometimes 4 days a week. Saving money is a plus as well.

 

[Landmonster]

All I'm really trying to get at with this thread is to understand how effective real rhGH is, compared to GH peptides.

I've only had experience at 5x a day of ModGRF/GHRP-2, I'm just wondering how much GH I'd need to use to meet or exceed those effects, and if the effects would be much more dramatic.


I'm not really expecting miracles from anything.

 

[Landmonster]

I gained 30Lbs in 30 days. I was on my usual aas dose and same diet. Rips put a lot of water in the muscle cell much like creatine. You get very strong and look incredibly full and vascular. The negative side is water is also stored in the intestines giving you a bloated turtle shell stomach. Such is life.

The 5 on, 2 off serves multiple purposes. In theory, eod dosing leads to the same results long term as everyday dosing, only there is less receptor downgrade and less antibody build up. I was doing the 5 on,2 off, and in reality it was more that I took 5ius preworkout and nothing on off days, which worked out to 5 days a week, sometimes 4 days a week. Saving money is a plus as well.

Ok. Well, that would be putting me around 315lbs then, lol.


Part of my question is whether a 2nd AAS cycle is too early to use hGH or not.

My 1st cycle was Test 500, Deca 300, Dbol 30, and GH peptides. This took me from 260lbs to 286lbs basically. Strength is way way up.

I was anticipating a 2nd cycle of higher doses of Test and Deca, dropping the orals, and adding hGH in lieu of the peptides.

I'm mainly just attempting right now to pack on as much raw muscle as humanly possible before I attempt to do any advanced/exotic roids or cutting stacks.

 

[johnjuanb1]

All I'm really trying to get at with this thread is to understand how effective real rhGH is, compared to GH peptides.

I've only had experience at 5x a day of ModGRF/GHRP-2, I'm just wondering how much GH I'd need to use to meet or exceed those effects, and if the effects would be much more dramatic.


I'm not really expecting miracles from anything.

Peptides are only capable of giving igf1 levels of the mid to high 300's. That works out to 2ius hgh a day. So to answer your question, anything above 2ius of quality hgh should give better results than peptides. This is only accurate for around 3 months due to the fact that your body will recognize chinese generic hgh as a foreign substance and produce antibodies to destroy it. At the 3 month mark on chinese generic hgh you will have to up your dose in order to achieve the same igf1 levels you were getting. The advantage of the peptides is no antibodies are produced against them. You may have to take a break from peptides for a week after a few months to resensitize the pituitary gland but that is all. With chinese generic hgh you will need 6 weeks off to clear out antibodies.

 

[Racepicks]

I've been training 12 years. I'm not some total noob who doesn't know how things affect their body.

Since you've been a member here for 6 years, obviously you're not a noob. There are not many members here that have the real life experience with HGH and Peptides that JohnJuan has. MT is right, if you don't want to listen to what other members say, then don't ask.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Ok. Well, that would be putting me around 315lbs then, lol.


Part of my question is whether a 2nd AAS cycle is too early to use hGH or not.

My 1st cycle was Test 500, Deca 300, Dbol 30, and GH peptides. This took me from 260lbs to 286lbs basically. Strength is way way up.

I was anticipating a 2nd cycle of higher doses of Test and Deca, dropping the orals, and adding hGH in lieu of the peptides.

I'm mainly just attempting right now to pack on as much raw muscle as humanly possible before I attempt to do any advanced/exotic roids or cutting stacks.

Test, deca, dbol is as good as it gets. I would try a different stack consisting of a different test ester, eq, and anadrol. This hits all 3 AAS receptors; test, progesterone, and dht. I don't think test and deca will be as good alone. Although, many top mass monsters swear by using only test and hgh while bulking; high doses of each.