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Why do Pro's do so many sets?

PHIL HERNON

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THEN AGAIN....

If that question is toward me...I truly believe a pro is going to find himself a pro no matter what progressive training approach he takes. Every pro has training partners....and he flys right by them. Heck in one of Ruhls videos they show his training partner (not his wife at that time) and he is going step by step with Ruhl and Ruhl absolutely dwarfs the guy by 100 lbs. Ronnie Colemans training partner has repeatedly asked me to train him....to be honest....would it really make a huge difference? I dont think so unless he isnt recovering...Ronnie trains very progressively and heavy.....but Ronnies genetics are Ronnies which set him apart. Nothing i do is ever going to make that guy approach Ronnie....its not in the cards.

I think people egos in this sport dont allow them to enter a reality zone.....a zone where the bottom line is these prime things that separate us as individuals

genetic response to training

genetic ability to recover (Ronnies is insane...who else can train like he does 6 days a week hitting bodyparts 2x in that time and recover? The majority would get absolutely buried)

genetic response to drugs--this is the one that really f*&ks peoples heads up. Lets take you the individual reading this out of the equation then. Do you really truly think that if Phil Heath and Jim Carrey did the exact same regimen of training and super supplements that they would respond the same and end up making the same extreme gains in muscle mass? not a chance in hell so why is it so hard to comprehend that Phil Heath responds to training and supersupplements oh so much better than you the person reading this. I still vividly remember 2 guys in my gym back in the old days sharing a big lot of tabs of winstrol....they split them up evenly---and used the same low amount per day.....they both were about the same height and weight and both had trained a long time naturally--both ate the same because they were neighbors and would eat alot together...but you could tell one guy was very mesomorphic with round muscle bellies and one guy was just so so aka "Mr you see him at the mall every day of the year"

Mr meso gains 25 pounds and Mr mall gained about 2 pounds....halfway thru Mr Mall freaked when he saw the gains Mr meso was making and accused him of taking much more than he was daily....but they recounted (even steven) and there they were at the end running out at the same time.

Im so much a believer in that the 400 or so pro's could swap training routines between each other and pretty much (not exactly but pretty much) end up with that same elite size considering all else (eating, ergo aids, supps) are the same.


Two things are like death and taxes in this sport.....
1)genetics allow certain people to absolutely leapfrog past their training partners, everyone in their gym and then the masses.

2)the people that get leapfrogged get their ego's so bent out of shape that they accuse the guy in #1 of using everything under the sun (even though the truth might be the guy in #2 is abusing himself to the gills far past the guy in #1)

MAYBE GUY 1 HAD THE REAL WINSTROL V STOCKED AWAY AND WAS RUNNIN 5CC DAILY...........OK, I AM GUY 1!!!! I CONFESS!
 

b-boy

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MAYBE GUY 1 HAD THE REAL WINSTROL V STOCKED AWAY AND WAS RUNNIN 5CC DAILY...........OK, I AM GUY 1!!!! I CONFESS!
common phil you know the only reason you are bigger than me is because you were "juiced to the gills bro" ;) :D


man competing on a national stage the past few years really has enforced in my brain that genetics are everything! everyone looks good at nationals, but only the genetically gifted (that nail everything on that day) will get those top 5 spots.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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Phil you are the perfect example of all this.....I remember talking to many of the same guys in your heavyweight class back in the early 90's and alot of them kept asking me "Man what the hell does Hernon do? How the hell is he so damn round" and you had told me and that was your business and your business only (well i did tell them the "piss in a measuring cup and immediately fill it to the same level with water and drink it down" trick).....so I kept it between you and I and you and I only. Some (not all) but some (and Im very sure you know exactly whom I am talking about) were so worried about standing next to you that they went to levels unheard of (to this day I am still astonished of those levels) in anticipation to what they "thought" you might be doing. And one guy specifically couldnt match you roundness and size wise so he basically passed the genetic barrier by "bludgeoning himself with juice and GH to a pro card".....you beat him even though he was doing 10-20x what you did, thru genetic response, no matter what he tried to abuse himself to do and got your pro card.....he then continued on with what he was doing using amounts that would kill a bull elephant and beat Tom Prince for his pro card.
 

Massive G

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I can remember starting serious bb'ing at 18. I was lucky I guess. I had a coach an advanced competitor (he actually had been trained by Dickerson in 1983-84) that owned my gym and set me up with a routine.

It was very advanced 3 on 1 off push pull 5 exercises 15-20 sets for large groups 4 exercises 10-12 sets for small each body part had a heavy and light day meaning first heavy work out rep ranges would be 4-8 max and light days 10-15. I have no idea how I made gains on that program because a lot of the sets were taken past failure with forced reps and many sets all out per
bodypart.

AS I grew stronger I adapted to doing less sets and eventually ended up doing like a yates style routine (which really wasn't much different that what I was adapting too) as I saw his video in 1996 or so and realized he wasn't doing "one" set to failure per boadypart and Mentzer never did either.

Anyway I guess I was lucky that I adapted as I got stronger to do less sets -especially on secondary exercises in which I was already warmed up anyway and stayed away from a lot of the machines and did the free weights.

Over training is the scourge of body building -how many guys have you seen year after year train their asses into the ground every session and I mean so hard it about kills them day after day week after week and they never really change they always look the same. That's the spot most people are in-with genetics as well as the training mentality of more is better.

One of the most irritating statements I see in bb'ing is "There is no such thing as over training -only under eating!" :rolleyes: and "eat. lift. sleep. repeat." :rolleyes:

YOU need to adapt a program to your recouperative abilities to grow maximally with in your genetics. Drugs or no drugs. ETC
 

PHIL HERNON

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FUNNY

Phil you are the perfect example of all this.....I remember talking to many of the same guys in your heavyweight class back in the early 90's and alot of them kept asking me "Man what the hell does Hernon do? How the hell is he so damn round" and you had told me and that was your business and your business only (well i did tell them the "piss in a measuring cup and immediately fill it to the same level with water and drink it down" trick).....so I kept it between you and I and you and I only. Some (not all) but some (and Im very sure you know exactly whom I am talking about) were so worried about standing next to you that they went to levels unheard of (to this day I am still astonished of those levels) in anticipation to what they "thought" you might be doing. And one guy specifically couldnt match you roundness and size wise so he basically passed the genetic barrier by "bludgeoning himself with juice and GH to a pro card".....you beat him even though he was doing 10-20x what you did, thru genetic response, no matter what he tried to abuse himself to do and got your pro card.....he then continued on with what he was doing using amounts that would kill a bull elephant and beat Tom Prince for his pro card.

AT THE TIME I FELT LIKE 1500 MG TEST WEEKLY AND 50 MG WV EOD WAS GONNA KILL ME......I THOUGHT I WAS TAKING MORE THAN ANYONE.
 

TooPowerful4u

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Phil you are the perfect example of all this.....I remember talking to many of the same guys in your heavyweight class back in the early 90's and alot of them kept asking me "Man what the hell does Hernon do? How the hell is he so damn round" and you had told me and that was your business and your business only (well i did tell them the "piss in a measuring cup and immediately fill it to the same level with water and drink it down" trick).....so I kept it between you and I and you and I only. Some (not all) but some (and Im very sure you know exactly whom I am talking about) were so worried about standing next to you that they went to levels unheard of (to this day I am still astonished of those levels) in anticipation to what they "thought" you might be doing. And one guy specifically couldnt match you roundness and size wise so he basically passed the genetic barrier by "bludgeoning himself with juice and GH to a pro card".....you beat him even though he was doing 10-20x what you did, thru genetic response, no matter what he tried to abuse himself to do and got your pro card.....he then continued on with what he was doing using amounts that would kill a bull elephant and beat Tom Prince for his pro card.

You forgot the part about becoming a drug addict and killing someone....
 

betito

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You want to know how to gain mass? forget about the top pros, the guys who realy know how it´s done know it because their genetics were so bad that they didn´t gain shit unless they did everything perfect... and those guys don´t usualy win olympias or even get to the pros...
 

TooPowerful4u

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Thats who you were referring to? I thought you were talkin bout Ronnie......:) ......JK RONNIE!!!!!

Thats another subject all together! He took it to the extreme almost as bad as tight-ass, but at least he became 8x Mr. O!
 

DOGGCRAPP

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If that´s what´s neccesary to be a pro i will do it... twice a day


Cmon Betito you already told me you were running over hitchhikers as a relief of stress on busy tuesdays.
 

TooPowerful4u

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You want to know how to gain mass? forget about the top pros, the guys who realy know how it´s done know it because their genetics were so bad that they didn´t gain shit unless they did everything perfect... and those guys don´t usualy win olympias or even get to the pros...

Exactly! Most of the larger pro's woulda been large regardless. Best person to ask is the guy who was small and busted his ass every inch of the way and hit 10,000 walls in their gains and found a way to break them!
 

nosmas

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Phil you are the perfect example of all this.....I remember talking to many of the same guys in your heavyweight class back in the early 90's and alot of them kept asking me "Man what the hell does Hernon do? How the hell is he so damn round"

THATS FUNNY PHIL. I JUST MENTIONED THIS TO YOU THE OTHER DAY.
 

smootheavy

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Exactly! Most of the larger pro's woulda been large regardless. QUOTE]

I agree a friend of mine started out as a power lifter, by the time he was in college he had a solid foundation and is a perfect mesomorph...the guy grew no matter what he ate, trained, etc...He used to do 25 sets for chest, quads, etc...on a six day a week rotation and eat shit food Wendys late at night and stay hard and thick with a 32 inch waist while bulking at 6' and 260# with abs

My point is if your a freak your a freak...as for me, quality not quantity is the only thing that works for me
 

JETHRO TULL

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Yep, that was a question to you! lol. Great response too.

If that question is toward me...I truly believe a pro is going to find himself a pro no matter what progressive training approach he takes. Every pro has training partners....and he flys right by them. Heck in one of Ruhls videos they show his training partner (not his wife at that time) and he is going step by step with Ruhl and Ruhl absolutely dwarfs the guy by 100 lbs. Ronnie Colemans training partner has repeatedly asked me to train him....to be honest....would it really make a huge difference? I dont think so unless he isnt recovering...Ronnie trains very progressively and heavy.....but Ronnies genetics are Ronnies which set him apart. Nothing i do is ever going to make that guy approach Ronnie....its not in the cards.

I think people egos in this sport dont allow them to enter a reality zone.....a zone where the bottom line is these prime things that separate us as individuals

genetic response to training

genetic ability to recover (Ronnies is insane...who else can train like he does 6 days a week hitting bodyparts 2x in that time and recover? The majority would get absolutely buried)

genetic response to drugs--this is the one that really f*&ks peoples heads up. Lets take you the individual reading this out of the equation then. Do you really truly think that if Phil Heath and Jim Carrey did the exact same regimen of training and super supplements that they would respond the same and end up making the same extreme gains in muscle mass? not a chance in hell so why is it so hard to comprehend that Phil Heath responds to training and supersupplements oh so much better than you the person reading this. I still vividly remember 2 guys in my gym back in the old days sharing a big lot of tabs of winstrol....they split them up evenly---and used the same low amount per day.....they both were about the same height and weight and both had trained a long time naturally--both ate the same because they were neighbors and would eat alot together...but you could tell one guy was very mesomorphic with round muscle bellies and one guy was just so so aka "Mr you see him at the mall every day of the year"

Mr meso gains 25 pounds and Mr mall gained about 2 pounds....halfway thru Mr Mall freaked when he saw the gains Mr meso was making and accused him of taking much more than he was daily....but they recounted (even steven) and there they were at the end running out at the same time.

Im so much a believer in that the 400 or so pro's could swap training routines between each other and pretty much (not exactly but pretty much) end up with that same elite size considering all else (eating, ergo aids, supps) are the same.


Two things are like death and taxes in this sport.....
1)genetics allow certain people to absolutely leapfrog past their training partners, everyone in their gym and then the masses.

2)the people that get leapfrogged get their ego's so bent out of shape that they accuse the guy in #1 of using everything under the sun (even though the truth might be the guy in #2 is abusing himself to the gills far past the guy in #1)

It's what I thought and it's nice to know that someone who is actually around pros has found this to be the truth. :)
 

smootheavy

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If that question is toward me...I truly believe a pro is going to find himself a pro no matter what progressive training approach he takes. Every pro has training partners....and he flys right by them. Heck in one of Ruhls videos they show his training partner (not his wife at that time) and he is going step by step with Ruhl and Ruhl absolutely dwarfs the guy by 100 lbs. Ronnie Colemans training partner has repeatedly asked me to train him....to be honest....would it really make a huge difference? I dont think so unless he isnt recovering...Ronnie trains very progressively and heavy.....but Ronnies genetics are Ronnies which set him apart. Nothing i do is ever going to make that guy approach Ronnie....its not in the cards.

I think people egos in this sport dont allow them to enter a reality zone.....a zone where the bottom line is these prime things that separate us as individuals

genetic response to training

genetic ability to recover (Ronnies is insane...who else can train like he does 6 days a week hitting bodyparts 2x in that time and recover? The majority would get absolutely buried)

genetic response to drugs--this is the one that really f*&ks peoples heads up. Lets take you the individual reading this out of the equation then. Do you really truly think that if Phil Heath and Jim Carrey did the exact same regimen of training and super supplements that they would respond the same and end up making the same extreme gains in muscle mass? not a chance in hell so why is it so hard to comprehend that Phil Heath responds to training and supersupplements oh so much better than you the person reading this. I still vividly remember 2 guys in my gym back in the old days sharing a big lot of tabs of winstrol....they split them up evenly---and used the same low amount per day.....they both were about the same height and weight and both had trained a long time naturally--both ate the same because they were neighbors and would eat alot together...but you could tell one guy was very mesomorphic with round muscle bellies and one guy was just so so aka "Mr you see him at the mall every day of the year"

Mr meso gains 25 pounds and Mr mall gained about 2 pounds....halfway thru Mr Mall freaked when he saw the gains Mr meso was making and accused him of taking much more than he was daily....but they recounted (even steven) and there they were at the end running out at the same time.

Im so much a believer in that the 400 or so pro's could swap training routines between each other and pretty much (not exactly but pretty much) end up with that same elite size considering all else (eating, ergo aids, supps) are the same.


Two things are like death and taxes in this sport.....
1)genetics allow certain people to absolutely leapfrog past their training partners, everyone in their gym and then the masses.

2)the people that get leapfrogged get their ego's so bent out of shape that they accuse the guy in #1 of using everything under the sun (even though the truth might be the guy in #2 is abusing himself to the gills far past the guy in #1)

Amen!
 

RONJON

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WOW great post ...ive tried tons of different styles of training...thankfully PHIL has got me on the right track and I like the program we are doing now

RONJON
 

lionsden

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Every video I see or article in muscle mags, etc.. you see these guys hitting like 12sets for chest, over 15sets for back,etc... and many train 2x per day. Everything i've heard on this board from the greats like DC and others I wont mention so I dont give away secrets, but they all recommened only 3sets per bodypart 1.5-2x per week. I wonder why so many of these guys are doing 10x that amount.

HBV is no secret, IMO the best Pro's of all time did not use DC methods.
 

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