You have to get stronger

[Biggerp73]

From my first day lifting through at 13 years old all the way through my mid 30's I trained heavy as possible (6-12) reps while using a wide variety of techniques and an arsenal of exercises, and this allowed me to build crazy thickness, strength and impressive size. I'm now in my early 40's and am retaining the thickness and still adding a little mass when I eat for growth but have transitioned to a higher rep range. I'm a mesomorph with no injuries and great genetics but this is what i believe to be the best approach for those looking to learn from their (ahem) "elders"

So the lesson is lift heavy as shit and get huge and then focus on making slow improvements once your older () and already built up the base ?

 

[FK86]

People really need to embrace the higher reps as a staple in their training. LATS, I can remember you mentioning that sets of 15+ can actually aid in joint cartilage rejuvenation. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I really like the loading set/back off set method that Dante uses for exercises that aren’t rest-paused in DC. Jordan Peters’ training is pretty much almost based solely on that. He has Hollingshead training that way as well. I do two straight sets per body part in this manner. I’m not strong and only 33, so I can get away with a 6-10 rep range followed by a 12-16 rep range (up to 12 on the loading and 20 on the back off if using dumbbells or fixed barbells). I don’t know if it is intentional or not when they set it up this way but think of it as preventative maintenance. The loading set allows you greater mechanical tension, and the back off set lets you reap the benefits of strengthening the joints and cartilage in addition to the greater TUT for the muscle. I also wear elbow sleeves for almost all upper body exercises and knee sleeves for lower body exercises. If you saw the weights I lift, you’d scoff and say "why does he need sleeves for that?" I don’t, but I don’t want to need them.

I also believe that progression is key. We should try to use that word more often because some people still can’t seem to apply relativity to the words strength and heavy. If someone took up bodybuilding today and decided they only want to train in a 15-25 rep range because they don’t like low rep sets and added hundreds of pounds to their lifts in that rep range, they’d be a monster.

I spent five months this year doing only 12-20 reps on all work sets. I liked it and my logbook showed me it’s going to be fine when I get older and ditch the single digit reps altogether. Funny thing; you know what exercise is the absolute worst when getting up to 20 reps? It’s not the squats and deadlifts. It’s the alternate dumbbell curls. Because 20 reps is actually 40 reps and the lactic acid is insane in a muscle that small. The set seems to go on for eternity.

 

[showstopper83]

Where are these super jacked, world class heavyweight's that got their benching 205 and squatting 245 for a million reps?

If you want to have world class results... You take world class measures and pay the price.

Do you think Ray Lewis, Jerome Bettis, Patrick Willis and Ronnie Lott feel crisp and limber these days?

You gotta pay to play. If you love your sport and have an athlete's pride and champion's mindset, it's a small price to pay for greatness.

 

[maldorf]

This lifestyle will catch up to all of us, some more than others but what we do has a price. If you’re willing to pay that price so be it but don’t fool yourself into thinking that you won’t pay eventually.

One picture says it all:

 

[maldorf]

I Most bodybuilders probably can't even sprint down the block without pulling something Most have no flexibility and I barely see anyone stretch.

I remember once how I once threw a rock out of my back yard down our hill, threw it really hard and didn't just toss it like I usually did. I tore the shit out of my bicep. It was hurt for a month. Just threw a damn rock. I was only about 35 years old at the time too. When I was younger and not all bulked out I could throw shit as hard as I wanted to.

 

[Fit2Serve]

i played soccer year round for first 20 years of my life.
then bb'ing for next 20 years.
i get up from recliner like i am walking on glass and like an old man. knees and ankles hurt the most. my hips are gaining on em... i NEVER thought i'd be that old achy guy. like someone else said scared to know it feels like in another 10 years.
i have drastically reduced weight. prob by 50% lowered volume as well. i still dont wanna go to the gym just cuz i constantly ache. sucks.
-F2S

 

[maldorf]

i played soccer year round for first 20 years of my life.
then bb'ing for next 20 years.
i get up from recliner like i am walking on glass and like an old man. knees and ankles hurt the most. my hips are gaining on em... i NEVER thought i'd be that old achy guy. like someone else said scared to know it feels like in another 10 years.
i have drastically reduced weight. prob by 50% lowered volume as well. i still dont wanna go to the gym just cuz i constantly ache. sucks.
-F2S

LOL. The other day one of my daughters asked what she just heard when I got up from kneeling on the ground. My knees really popped and cracked when I stood up. I feel the same way as you, I feel like my lower back is made of glass. I call it my glass back.

 

[Fit2Serve]

LOL. The other day one of my daughters asked what she just heard when I got up from kneeling on the ground. My knees really popped and cracked when I stood up. I feel the same way as you, I feel like my lower back is made of glass. I call it my glass back.

i also have big flat feet i mean zero arch. so i constantly battle with plantar facsiitis and i am telling u it aint no joke. shit hurts.

my daughter (9 years old) just got into running. we put her in a running camp and every week they did the 1 mile as a race. so i trained with her for the 4 week camp, you train on your own during week then every sunday do the 1 mile race.
OMG, i pray she takes up swimming lol. i was achy as hell.. after 3 days in a row of running i told her i have to rest or i wont recover. just pathetic
i used to run 4 miles everyday. could run 3 miles in 21 minutes (had to to play college ball) now halfway thru 1 mile run i am begging for it to end
-F2S

 

[b-boy]

I think the necessity for progressive overload is an absolute. The only way to get around the necessity for progressive overload in terms of strength would be to engage in progressive overload in terms of dosage, calories, etc. But that only goes so far. I think it's pretty clear that the guys in this sport who have been the same size for years, could benefit from focusing on a powerlifting routine for a while, and then once they've built new strength, using that new strength to build more tissue when they transition back to a bodybuilding routine.

well we can agree to disagree I guess, I stand by there are no absolutes when it comes to bodybuilding.

 

[FrancisK]

One picture says it all:

God that is sad, at least he will be remembered for being at the top of the mountain and not what he is now. Will any of us be able to say that?

I was a good wrestler in college, not great but damn good I have the plastic trophies and scrap metal medals to prove it. My stomach is constantly feeling off, always been like that, doc says it’s from all that throwing up to make weight. This was only 15 years ago but they can have all the trophies and medals back if it means my stomach isn’t fucked anymore. It sucks being 35, single, successful and in shape but I would rather stay in bed on the weekends or even in the hotel on trips because my stomach is fucked up that night.

Everything has a price...

 

[maldorf]

God that is sad, at least he will be remembered for being at the top of the mountain and not what he is now. Will any of us be able to say that?

I was a good wrestler in college, not great but damn good I have the plastic trophies and scrap metal medals to prove it. My stomach is constantly feeling off, always been like that, doc says it’s from all that throwing up to make weight. This was only 15 years ago but they can have all the trophies and medals back if it means my stomach isn’t fucked anymore. It sucks being 35, single, successful and in shape but I would rather stay in bed on the weekends or even in the hotel on trips because my stomach is fucked up that night.

Everything has a price...

The strange thing to me is that I have heard people ask Ron in interviews if he could go back in time and change the way he lifted, would he do it? He says no, I wouldn't change a thing. I don't understand that. I guess like you said, he was #1 for a long time, and maybe to him that was the price he had to pay.

For most of us though, we are just another gym rat. Why pay such a high price just for that?

 

[maldorf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVVdlwf1iyM

 

[buck]

People like to think, especially those that don't work out that training is good for you. A little moderate amount of aerobics or lifting maybe. But the facts I have seen and felt are that people that use their body wear it out. i don't know anyone who has put in 10 much less 20+ years that talks about how great they feel or how they have never had an injury that has slowed them down. We like to challenge our self on some level for some reason, even if it is detrimental.

 

[maldorf]

People like to think, especially those that don't work out that training is good for you. A little moderate amount of aerobics or lifting maybe. But the facts I have seen and felt are that people that use their body wear it out. i don't know anyone who has put in 10 much less 20+ years that talks about how great they feel or how they have never had an injury that has slowed them down. We like to challenge our self on some level for some reason, even if it is detrimental.

I wonder too how much of it is built in from societal influences. Men are supposed to be big and strong. You don't see many women that do this to themselves.

 

[buck]

I wonder too how much of it is built in from societal influences. Men are supposed to be big and strong. You don't see many women that do this to themselves.

They used to be more into anorexia and bulemia, but clothes makeup, botox and implants seem to be more there style.

 

[Beti ona]

You can't completely avoid the possibility for injuries, not even by focusing on the pump and training light weight. But you can train smart, do warm ups and stretches, active recovery, protective work, etc, to make heavy training just about as safe as any other form of training.

That sounds good, many people in the industry, young and strong, promote that thought.

But most will not be able to escape the pain and injury if they lift hard for decades, no matter how many preventive measures you take.

 

[Beti ona]

They used to be more into anorexia and bulemia, but clothes makeup, botox and implants seem to be more there style.

Anorexia and bulimia are not very lucrative, and whoever suffers its poorly perceived by society. On the other hand, botox, implants, etc... are a great business and girls receive many compliments for their appearance, of boys and girls.

 

[FK86]

Coleman’s form is terrible and I don’t want to hear that he found what worked for him and that’s what it took to win eight Olympia titles. He is a genetic god like Haney, Oliva, and Wheeler and would’ve grown doing anything. I’m not saying those ridiculous weights aren’t dangerous and he very likely could have still sustained injuries. But he 100% should’ve performed his repetitions in a safer manner to minimize the risk. He didn't respect the weights so the weights didn't respect him. He should’ve been doing his t-bar rows like Hanshaw or Sandoe. I think Dusty is 38 or 39 lifting insane weights and his form is very controlled and tight. If you’re going to juice and have your muscles get stronger at a faster rate than your tendons and ligaments, then you should be even safer and taking more precautions in your training. Does that imbalance ever balance out? Coleman’s a nice guy, a legend, and an inspiration to many, but that doesn’t give him a free pass from stupidity. Even now he’s still posting videos on Instagram of him working out with the same form that contributed to fucking him up while his colleagues like Levrone and Cutler are walking around fine. I think they’ve each had some injuries as well, but they’re not wheelchair bound and both threw around heavy iron for decades.

 

[method2madness]

So the lesson is lift heavy as shit and get huge and then focus on making slow improvements once your older () and already built up the base ?

As long as you take all reasonable precautions against injury, specifically PNF (Proprioceptive Neuromuscular Facilitation) and other stretching and prepping techniques as often as possible then yes, I would say that is the take away at least from my experience; while keeping in mind that everyone's 'heavy' will be relative to their abilities.

 

[Fit2Serve]

Coleman’s form is terrible and I don’t want to hear that he found what worked for him and that’s what it took to win eight Olympia titles. He is a genetic god like Haney, Oliva, and Wheeler and would’ve grown doing anything. I’m not saying those ridiculous weights aren’t dangerous and he very likely could have still sustained injuries. But he 100% should’ve performed his repetitions in a safer manner to minimize the risk. He didn't respect the weights so the weights didn't respect him. He should’ve been doing his t-bar rows like Hanshaw or Sandoe. I think Dusty is 38 or 39 lifting insane weights and his form is very controlled and tight. If you’re going to juice and have your muscles get stronger at a faster rate than your tendons and ligaments, then you should be even safer and taking more precautions in your training. Does that imbalance ever balance out? Coleman’s a nice guy, a legend, and an inspiration to many, but that doesn’t give him a free pass from stupidity. Even now he’s still posting videos on Instagram of him working out with the same form that contributed to fucking him up while his colleagues like Levrone and Cutler are walking around fine. I think they’ve each had some injuries as well, but they’re not wheelchair bound and both threw around heavy iron for decades.

VERY valid point!
We all know Jay was a mass monster just like Ronnie. They battled it out for YEARS, jay was right there neck and neck. and like u say, one can walk and had minimal if any terrible injuries while the other can barely walk and likely in chronic pain for rest of his life.
imo jay DEFINITELY did it the right way. he was near as big as ronnie, and alot bigger than everyone else and can walk.
kinda trumps that whole must lift til your nose bleeds mentality
i'd be very happy with jays career and current health
-F2S