You have to get stronger

[nihilixm]

I will say I agree with OP about the topic and wanting to be huge...

BUT

I’d opt for a body like Frank Zane ANY DAY over any BBer physique... Physiques like Zane drops panties..

He's small.

If you have average genetics and his mass you would look like every lean 180lb er.

He can train like a retard and he likely did since he only got that little lean mass but he had good proportions due to genetics.

So yeah let's look at someone with no size just good proportion on how to train

Doesn't sound good to me Tbh

 

[Biggerp73]

well we can agree to disagree I guess, I stand by there are no absolutes when it comes to bodybuilding.

Respec :fo:d-smil

 

[showstopper83]

The strange thing to me is that I have heard people ask Ron in interviews if he could go back in time and change the way he lifted, would he do it? He says no, I wouldn't change a thing. I don't understand that. I guess like you said, he was #1 for a long time, and maybe to him that was the price he had to pay.

For most of us though, we are just another gym rat. Why pay such a high price just for that?

He's a champ and the greatest ever- why WOULD he wanna change a thing?

I would rather struggle physically later in life and be able to have lived my dream, left a legacy and been what every other competitor wishes they were.

Ronnie Coleman has NOTHING to be ashamed of, and if anything his current state is a reminder to everyone else who didn't have the guts to be what he was.

Dude's a straight warrior.

 

[RoyHobbs]

He's a champ and the greatest ever- why WOULD he wanna change a thing?

I would rather struggle physically later in life and be able to have lived my dream, left a legacy and been what every other competitor wishes they were.

Ronnie Coleman has NOTHING to be ashamed of, and if anything his current state is a reminder to everyone else who didn't have the guts to be what he was.

Dude's a straight warrior.

Agreed. Same as Joe Montana and his elbows. Ed Coan and his hips. Dave Tate (never a champion but still views it all the same) and all his joints. MLB pitchers and Tommy John.

That said I can see being in pain, joint issues, etc being the price you pay to be a champion but it's a slippery slope before you abuse drugs and use the same rationale and you're not changes quality of life in later years but shaving years (decades) off your life. To each their own I suppose even if we all dont agree with their decisions.

 

[maldorf]

He's a champ and the greatest ever- why WOULD he wanna change a thing?

I would rather struggle physically later in life and be able to have lived my dream, left a legacy and been what every other competitor wishes they were.

Ronnie Coleman has NOTHING to be ashamed of, and if anything his current state is a reminder to everyone else who didn't have the guts to be what he was.

Dude's a straight warrior.

I think though that he probably would have been just as good if he hadn't done those crazy sets of double and triples. He probably didn't need that powerlifter style of lifting to win the Olympia. The whole there is more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe not lifting like that would have saved his back, at least somewhat.

 

[NEMSZ]

He's small.

If you have average genetics and his mass you would look like every lean 180lb er.

He can train like a retard and he likely did since he only got that little lean mass but he had good proportions due to genetics.

So yeah let's look at someone with no size just good proportion on how to train

Doesn't sound good to me Tbh

I get that Zane wasn’t a mass monster but to make is seem like his physique is a dime a dozen is also pretty ridiculous.. Also, he has plenty of offseason pics where he walked around at 200lbs in single digits, his contest weight was 185lbs.. He still looked pretty fucking amazing and fit/ripped..

My posts agreed with OP that if you want to be a mass monster and as big as possible etc then you want to train heavier and eat more etc etc.. But my point of my post is, who do you attract more by doing so? A bunch of fucking dudes!

Let’s be honest, when you see a huge bber type guy walk into anywhere, whether it’s the gym or restaurant or down the beach, who looks and stares and goes up to them asking questions 98% of the time? The hot girls? No... A bunch of guys..

Let’s be real, unless a woman is in the fitness industry herself, very hard to find a 5’7-5’8 250lb guy attractive, because it’s fucking not..

And I live in Miami, a place where finding a 10/10 chick (or guy for that matter) is anywhere and everywhere.. THEY are a dime a dozen here.. And I always see the hottest women with either fit/ripped guys like a Zane physique or fat/fat old guys with money... Period.. lol

Anyway, not trying to derail the thread, but thought I’d clear up the point in my post as I don’t think you got it.. Want to be big? I agree with OP..

 

[Elvia1023]

I get that Zane wasn’t a mass monster but to make is seem like his physique is a dime a dozen is also pretty ridiculous.. Also, he has plenty of offseason pics where he walked around at 200lbs in single digits, his contest weight was 185lbs.. He still looked pretty fucking amazing and fit/ripped..

My posts agreed with OP that if you want to be a mass monster and as big as possible etc then you want to train heavier and eat more etc etc.. But my point of my post is, who do you attract more by doing so? A bunch of fucking dudes!

Let’s be honest, when you see a huge bber type guy walk into anywhere, whether it’s the gym or restaurant or down the beach, who looks and stares and goes up to them asking questions 98% of the time? The hot girls? No... A bunch of guys..

Let’s be real, unless a woman is in the fitness industry herself, very hard to find a 5’7-5’8 250lb guy attractive, because it’s fucking not..

And I live in Miami, a place where finding a 10/10 chick (or guy for that matter) is anywhere and everywhere.. THEY are a dime a dozen here.. And I always see the hottest women with either fit/ripped guys like a Zane physique or fat/fat old guys with money... Period.. lol

Anyway, not trying to derail the thread, but thought I’d clear up the point in my post as I don’t think you got it.. Want to be big? I agree with OP..

I think most people on here don't pick their gym goals to just attract women. Maybe when they were 16 in school but not now unless they have some bad self esteem issues. Many on here have a passion for bodybuilding. This is not bodybuilding.com. Of course we want to attract women but it's much more than that. I have done many cycles/diets and I know it will probably/definitely go against me in regards to picking up women. But who cares. Plus I can attract women even if I am 260 with a bloated face. If someone can only attract women if they are ripped they have more issues than just physique ones.

Have you ever been big (haven't a clue what your stats are)? I have to say you are wrong if you think bodybuilders can't get women. If they have other things going for them then trust me they can get women. Granted a different type of girl may be more attracted to them but there are tonnes of girls who love big men even if they tell their small boyfriends they don't like it and it's "disgusting".

This is a thread about getting stronger. I would think anyone who trains hard over years has to get stronger as there is no other way. If you push it in the gym the weight should automatically go up over time. Granted we can't all just keep on getting stronger and there is a limit to things. Injuries and getting older are usually the most common reasons for bodybuilders who lose strength. In many ways I am actually a lot weaker now compared to the past due to my messed up lower back (can't push squats, dl's, barbell rows etc) but I definitely think I look better than when I used to push the weights in all those movements. I will still be trying to get stronger in the foreseeable future and I am looking forward to it.

 

[NEMSZ]

I think most people on here don't pick their gym goals to just attract women. Maybe when they were 16 in school but not now unless they have some bad self esteem issues. Many on here have a passion for bodybuilding. This is not bodybuilding.com. Of course we want to attract women but it's much more than that. I have done many cycles/diets and I know it will probably/definitely go against me in regards to picking up women. But who cares. Plus I can attract women even if I am 260 with a bloated face. If someone can only attract women if they are ripped they have more issues than just physique ones.

Have you ever been big (haven't a clue what your stats are)? I have to say you are wrong if you think bodybuilders can't get women. If they have other things going for them then trust me they can get women. Granted a different type of girl may be more attracted to them but there are tonnes of girls who love big men even if they tell their small boyfriends they don't like it and it's "disgusting".

This is a thread about getting stronger. I would think anyone who trains hard over years has to get stronger as there is no other way. If you push it in the gym the weight should automatically go over over time. Granted we can't all just keep on getting stronger and there is a limit to things. Injuries and getting older are usually the most common reasons for bodybuilders who lose strength. In many ways I am actually a lot weaker now compared to the past due to my messed up lower back (can't push squats, dl's, barbell rows etc) but I definitely think I look better than when I used to push the weights in all those movements. I will still be trying to get stronger in the foreseeable future and I am looking forward to it.

Yea I understand your point and wasn’t trying to derail the thread just explaining my original post...

I’m not a very tall guy 5’8.5” (yes the .5 counts! Lol) and have been what I feel is “bigger” @ 205-210lbs and I’ll just say I got more attention at 185-188lbs ripped than I did even at a decently lean 205-210lbs. Let’s be honest, I know fat guys who aren’t rich by any means who pull 10’s all day BUT it definitely makes things easier when you have the look and the talk/game to go with it.. I agree that it depends on a lot of factors to getting women, I’ve never had bad luck in that regard even when I was completely out of shape not working out for a year and drinking every night.. And besides women are easier to pick up here in MIA than getting groceries lol...

It was just OP said something about Zane so I made my point on him and MY PERSONAL preference.. For all the guys who want to be huge or have a goal or preference then cool man, I wasn’t trying to shit on anyone..

But we have to agree for the sake of reality that if you show 99% of women a picture of Chris Hemsworth shirtless and a pic of Phil Heath they’re gona pick Chris Hemsworth Lol.. Doesn’t mean there aren’t women in that 99% that are attracted to physiques like Phil, I’m sure there are... But to say there aren’t physiques that appeal to masses is incorrect..

I used to want to be huge myself and not that I have low self esteem but I do enjoy attention, I’ll admit that, and also health and functionality have become goals of mine.. I’d rather be 185lbs ripped, able to run 10 miles, can do pull ups and explosive workouts with no problems, have my health, be functional, flexible and competitive in athletics etc.. Those are my personal preferences and goals and if having a broader range of appeal comes with it then so be it lol..

So again, not trying to shit on anyone who wants to be huge at all.. I actually find it fascinating in a sense (not a fan of the health risks) but again to my point, I’m a guy lol...

 

[gungalunga]

Lift weights...grunt....eat....sleep.....repeat. Don t over think it, because when you do, it starts to become more of an obsession than just something that you enjoy doing.

 

[Elvia1023]

Yea I understand your point and wasn’t trying to derail the thread just explaining my original post...

I’m not a very tall guy 5’8.5” (yes the .5 counts! Lol) and have been what I feel is “bigger” @ 205-210lbs and I’ll just say I got more attention at 185-188lbs ripped than I did even at a decently lean 205-210lbs. Let’s be honest, I know fat guys who aren’t rich by any means who pull 10’s all day BUT it definitely makes things easier when you have the look and the talk/game to go with it.. I agree that it depends on a lot of factors to getting women, I’ve never had bad luck in that regard even when I was completely out of shape not working out for a year and drinking every night.. And besides women are easier to pick up here in MIA than getting groceries lol...

It was just OP said something about Zane so I made my point on him and MY PERSONAL preference.. For all the guys who want to be huge or have a goal or preference then cool man, I wasn’t trying to shit on anyone..

But we have to agree for the sake of reality that if you show 99% of women a picture of Chris Hemsworth shirtless and a pic of Phil Heath they’re gona pick Chris Hemsworth Lol.. Doesn’t mean there aren’t women in that 99% that are attracted to physiques like Phil, I’m sure there are... But to say there aren’t physiques that appeal to masses is incorrect..

I used to want to be huge myself and not that I have low self esteem but I do enjoy attention, I’ll admit that, and also health and functionality have become goals of mine.. I’d rather be 185lbs ripped, able to run 10 miles, can do pull ups and explosive workouts with no problems, have my health, be functional, flexible and competitive in athletics etc.. Those are my personal preferences and goals and if having a broader range of appeal comes with it then so be it lol..

So again, not trying to shit on anyone who wants to be huge at all.. I actually find it fascinating in a sense (not a fan of the health risks) but again to my point, I’m a guy lol...

Fair enough. I do actually agree as it's all fairly obvious. I even prefer the classic physique look by far but I do love bodybuilding and the pursuit of getting bigger. I recently downsized but the bug got me again but I won't be doing this for many more years. There is simply nothing healthy about weighing a lot in your 40's etc. So I 100% understand and agree with your point. Everyone has different preferences and rereading your post you are acknowledging that. I also plan to work on cardiovascular fitness, flexibilty etc as I even grow but I definitely won't be doing any 10 mile runs

 

[Fa Seeshus]

Max limit strength isn't the only type of strength.

As I'm getting older I'm focusing more on strength endurance and flexibility. Heck, even balance is a type of strength.

I think one of the main points of the OP is that we should always be progressing in some way, not just mindlessly pumping weights.

 

[buck]

Max limit strength isn't the only type of strength.

As I'm getting older I'm focusing more on strength endurance and flexibility. Heck, even balance is a type of strength.

I think one of the main points of the OP is that we should always be progressing in some way, not just mindlessly pumping weights.

I was recently talking with a guy in the gym about getting older and weaker. And he would correct me and tell me that you have to be strong to grow older. And as he is in a wheelchair I started to see his point better. Watching him load 45 lb.plates on the hammer strengh for his work out can ba a little inspiring.

 

[trainlikeaboss]

Original comment was “build the strength first”. Is it even possible to lift weights without building strength? Maybe unless you never lift more than a 5 lb dumbbell? 135 for 10 reps is all you can do or 315 it’s all heavy relative to your strength at the time. If you are challenging yourself I don’t think strength gains can’t be avoided. All rep ranges and forms of lifting will increase strength over time. Am I missing something?


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[TheOtherOne55]

Original comment was “build the strength first”. Is it even possible to lift weights without building strength? Maybe unless you never lift more than a 5 lb dumbbell? 135 for 10 reps is all you can do or 315 it’s all heavy relative to your strength at the time. If you are challenging yourself I don’t think strength gains can’t be avoided. All rep ranges and forms of lifting will increase strength over time. Am I missing something?


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I can agree with you, but i think most people end up not realizing a that A. they aren't pushing themselves to push more weight or B. they dont ever challenge their own workout intensity TO push more weight.

I admit that for years I just kinda stayed at the same weights per workout. You just get used to benching 3 plates, but you are rotating your exercises sporadically and never really realize you are never trying 325 or 335 or 345 and so on. I worked out to get tired and get a nasty pump thats it. And with that approach, my weight sat in the same range for years. Basically, a decently lean 245.

The minute i started tracking everything: my food, my weights, my workouts—everything took off. "Well i did 315 for 8 two weeks ago. So let me try 325 for 8." Just small shit like that made my gains explode. And i feel like most people just dont do that. Tracking takes a little bit more effort and for whatever reasons, lots of BBers think they can just go in and lift intuitively....yeah u can, if youre Paul Dillet...but if youre everyone else, USE this advantage

 

[Biggerp73]

I can agree with you, but i think most people end up not realizing a that A. they aren't pushing themselves to push more weight or B. they dont ever challenge their own workout intensity TO push more weight.

I admit that for years I just kinda stayed at the same weights per workout. You just get used to benching 3 plates, but you are rotating your exercises sporadically and never really realize you are never trying 325 or 335 or 345 and so on. I worked out to get tired and get a nasty pump thats it. And with that approach, my weight sat in the same range for years. Basically, a decently lean 245.

The minute i started tracking everything: my food, my weights, my workouts—everything took off. "Well i did 315 for 8 two weeks ago. So let me try 325 for 8." Just small shit like that made my gains explode. And i feel like most people just dont do that. Tracking takes a little bit more effort and for whatever reasons, lots of BBers think they can just go in and lift intuitively....yeah u can, if youre Paul Dillet...but if youre everyone else, USE this advantage

That is exactly what I am talking about

 

[LATS]

I think most people on here don't pick their gym goals to just attract women. Maybe when they were 16 in school but not now unless they have some bad self esteem issues. Many on here have a passion for bodybuilding. This is not bodybuilding.com. Of course we want to attract women but it's much more than that. I have done many cycles/diets and I know it will probably/definitely go against me in regards to picking up women. But who cares. Plus I can attract women even if I am 260 with a bloated face. If someone can only attract women if they are ripped they have more issues than just physique ones.

Have you ever been big (haven't a clue what your stats are)? I have to say you are wrong if you think bodybuilders can't get women. If they have other things going for them then trust me they can get women. Granted a different type of girl may be more attracted to them but there are tonnes of girls who love big men even if they tell their small boyfriends they don't like it and it's "disgusting".

This is a thread about getting stronger. I would think anyone who trains hard over years has to get stronger as there is no other way. If you push it in the gym the weight should automatically go up over time. Granted we can't all just keep on getting stronger and there is a limit to things. Injuries and getting older are usually the most common reasons for bodybuilders who lose strength. In many ways I am actually a lot weaker now compared to the past due to my messed up lower back (can't push squats, dl's, barbell rows etc) but I definitely think I look better than when I used to push the weights in all those movements. I will still be trying to get stronger in the foreseeable future and I am looking forward to it.

I agree... ya wanna get girls ?? Just dont train. I see the hottest girls with pooch belly skinny/fat guys all day.. dont need the gym for that. I never trained for women.. and yes most of the time its guys that approach ya. When I was 235 my wife hated it because girls were pretty unashamed ( of course this was 15vyears ago lol ) about approaching me.. when ya get to 275 it's the dudes coming to your table to talk lol.. but that being said my wife and many of her friends like big guys. It seems the older they get the more they appreciate it..

As for getting stronger. Yes. But you cant keep getting stronger. It's a perishable accomplishment. Then you need to find techniques and intensity variables to keep excelling.. but you still need to try and maintain your strength. Recently I looked at my old log books and saw my old strength numbers. I'm no where near that now lol.. cant even fathom trying to get back to that level. But I am bigger than I was. So .. but also fatter lol

 

[FrancisK]

I can agree with you, but i think most people end up not realizing a that A. they aren't pushing themselves to push more weight or B. they dont ever challenge their own workout intensity TO push more weight.

I admit that for years I just kinda stayed at the same weights per workout. You just get used to benching 3 plates, but you are rotating your exercises sporadically and never really realize you are never trying 325 or 335 or 345 and so on. I worked out to get tired and get a nasty pump thats it. And with that approach, my weight sat in the same range for years. Basically, a decently lean 245.

The minute i started tracking everything: my food, my weights, my workouts—everything took off. "Well i did 315 for 8 two weeks ago. So let me try 325 for 8." Just small shit like that made my gains explode. And i feel like most people just dont do that. Tracking takes a little bit more effort and for whatever reasons, lots of BBers think they can just go in and lift intuitively....yeah u can, if youre Paul Dillet...but if youre everyone else, USE this advantage

I agree with this, I have a relative who is my height but weighs probably 100lbs less he looks like a strong wind would knock him over. Well he started going to the gym about a year ago and keeps getting frustrated he isn’t getting results. I know him he’s a lazy do the bare minimum person and bitches like an entitled little girl, always has, so finally when I asked him about his workouts they were no different. So yea I agree, if you’re not pushing yourself then don’t waste your time.

But that is relative, it’s not a never ending summit to the peak. You’re eventually going to get a point where you reach your peak and come down, as in you’re not going to find a new peak your entire life. I am definitely stronger now then i was when I was a teenager but I sure as hell cant train now like i did when I was a teenager and 10 years from now will I be as strong as I am now? I highly doubt it so I’ll have to adapt I can’t just keep chasing a peak, that isn’t feasible and I will destroy my body doing that.

 

[LK3]

"heavy" is relative imo.

When Phil Hernon was my trainer i told him in the beginning, i am not very strong for as big as i am. felt kinda ashamed about it lol.
but he flipped it, his reply," that's good, you dont have to lift as heavy to grow, so less likely to get injured."

405lbs feels like 405lbs to you, to me it feels like 505... i never did and never will do reps with 405 on anything but legs lol but i LOOKED like i could:star-w:rs
-F2S

sort of in that idea i keep trying to make myself weaker and hold that weakness at a size so i can use light weights to grow. lol

thats what you do with limited weights and injuries!:lightbulb:

 

[trainlikeaboss]

I can agree with you, but i think most people end up not realizing a that A. they aren't pushing themselves to push more weight or B. they dont ever challenge their own workout intensity TO push more weight.



I admit that for years I just kinda stayed at the same weights per workout. You just get used to benching 3 plates, but you are rotating your exercises sporadically and never really realize you are never trying 325 or 335 or 345 and so on. I worked out to get tired and get a nasty pump thats it. And with that approach, my weight sat in the same range for years. Basically, a decently lean 245.



The minute i started tracking everything: my food, my weights, my workouts—everything took off. "Well i did 315 for 8 two weeks ago. So let me try 325 for 8." Just small shit like that made my gains explode. And i feel like most people just dont do that. Tracking takes a little bit more effort and for whatever reasons, lots of BBers think they can just go in and lift intuitively....yeah u can, if youre Paul Dillet...but if youre everyone else, USE this advantage

No offense but you started tracking food and workouts and training harder and made gains? No shit... Nothing new.


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[nihilixm]

9

I get that Zane wasn’t a mass monster but to make is seem like his physique is a dime a dozen is also pretty ridiculous.. Also, he has plenty of offseason pics where he walked around at 200lbs in single digits, his contest weight was 185lbs.. He still looked pretty fucking amazing and fit/ripped..

My posts agreed with OP that if you want to be a mass monster and as big as possible etc then you want to train heavier and eat more etc etc.. But my point of my post is, who do you attract more by doing so? A bunch of fucking dudes!

Let’s be honest, when you see a huge bber type guy walk into anywhere, whether it’s the gym or restaurant or down the beach, who looks and stares and goes up to them asking questions 98% of the time? The hot girls? No... A bunch of guys..

Let’s be real, unless a woman is in the fitness industry herself, very hard to find a 5’7-5’8 250lb guy attractive, because it’s fucking not..

And I live in Miami, a place where finding a 10/10 chick (or guy for that matter) is anywhere and everywhere.. THEY are a dime a dozen here.. And I always see the hottest women with either fit/ripped guys like a Zane physique or fat/fat old guys with money... Period.. lol

Anyway, not trying to derail the thread, but thought I’d clear up the point in my post as I don’t think you got it.. Want to be big? I agree with OP..

99% of People will not have Zane genetics so will just look small/bad at that body weight even if lean.

what happens when buck 80 5'9 Zane puts on a shirt (you know to talk to girls since they don't Rly look at oiled up dudes trying to pick up) and stands next to a 6'2 dude that's 250 lbs as per your example?