DC/Hanshaw Project ...Kaboom!

[little slice]

He got tired of instigators.

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PM does have a block function tho right?

 

[thebarbarian]

Great interview with Dusty on Advices radio. He mentions the project with DC.

https://www.advicesradio.com/track/episode-82

 

[jeroendebleser]

Always great to see a DC-thread

The standard DC 2-way split always worked like a charm for me. Best thing I ever did training-wise. Why oh why am I (and most of you are also steering clear of what worked best for you) not doing only what has worked best for me

 

[Fit2Serve]

The standard DC 2-way split always worked like a charm for me. Best thing I ever did training-wise. Why oh why am I (and most of you are also steering clear of what worked best for you) not doing only what has worked best for me

injury:lightbulb: would be main reason.

how many guys are pros and never once trained "DC"? a BUNCH
its a workout. bout any decent workout and nutrition/drugs/genetics will do.
did dusty ever become a pro? i always said if he did his career is over. just doesnt have the genetics to battle the genetic elite. hard worker tho... def took his physique far as it would go imo
-F

 

[jeroendebleser]

injury:lightbulb: would be main reason.

how many guys are pros and never once trained "DC"? a BUNCH
its a workout. bout any decent workout and nutrition/drugs/genetics will do.
did dusty ever become a pro? i always said if he did his career is over. just doesnt have the genetics to battle the genetic elite. hard worker tho... def took his physique far as it would go imo
-F

True on the injury/wear part and true also, almost none ever did that's a fact. But you can't deduct from that that what they are doing training-wise is going to work for someone with average or below average genetics (like me). It's been said in this thread before, most of the pro's would get growth out of mowing their lawns. I've done everything as far as training is concerned and only DC-training stood out as the single best way to train for me. With Big Beyond Belief a distant second.

Thus I always advise people to at least give DC-training a chance. I firmly believe most will be surprised at their results. (not all, never) Apart from DC-training, imo it doesn't matter much if at all. Everything else I've done works the same (or doesn't work well if you will).

Just my two cents

 

[tokon]

We seem to have lost DC as a contributor to this board?
If that's the case, it is truly a massively loss imo.

 

[PeptideFiend]

You are so in the freaking weeds its unbelievable! Let me clear you up on a few facts you got 100% wrong. You need to get out more obviously. I know your life revolves around Pro Muscle and you think this is the center of the universe but TN and my name was made outside of Pro Muscle....your not even remotely in the correct here. Like you couldnt be more wrong. My name was made on Hardcore Muscle Newsletter in the early 90's...then it continued to the internet in the late 90's thru cycles for pennies, AnimalKits, Muscle Mayhem and IntenseMuscle. Cycles for Pennies had something like 2 million views in a years time. I didnt even join Professional Muscle til 2003. I post over here because it really doesnt feel comfortable posting about juice stuff anywhere else. Do you see TN advertising here on Pro Muscle? No I dont....because the place a guy named Doggcrapp likes posting about ergo aids and TN sales have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Dont you think I would be advertising and asking to put banners up all over this board if it did? I am old school, I love message boards...its my preferred way of doing things....but people nowadays dont give a flying crap about message boards.....its facebook, instagram and snapchat.
My arrogant attitude....yea right. Do you EVER see me be disparaging to someone to start? Never. I react to things others say to start. You wont see me go on threads and say snippy shit to various people to rile things up, thats not my way of doing things. I will react to what someone else says though. MY one comment on this thread would be about that Dusty making more money than Pro's winning contests if it wasnt guys taking potshots at me first. (like the one that got deleted and the other one)
I like this board, I like posting over here....but man if you think this thing has anything to do with more than a many zeroed decimal point of TN sales or how people know me.....your disillusioned bigtime.

I first saw DC posts on animal's old board, I devoured every post DC MADE.

THANK YOU DC!

 

[FK86]

injury:lightbulb: would be main reason.

how many guys are pros and never once trained "DC"? a BUNCH
its a workout. bout any decent workout and nutrition/drugs/genetics will do.
did dusty ever become a pro? i always said if he did his career is over. just doesnt have the genetics to battle the genetic elite. hard worker tho... def took his physique far as it would go imo
-F

People get injured for three reasons:

1. Poor form
2. Refusing to adapt
3. Age

Two and three tie together. If you're old and/or strong as fuck stop the 455 lb inclines for 6 reps on the first loop of your rest-pause set and knock it down to 315 or something and shoot for 15-20 so that you end up as high as 40 RP. DC isn't the only program that utilizes training to failure, yet everyone seems to whine about injuries just with DC. Something's odd there.

"but the pros..." argument; null and void.

Yes, Dusty became a pro and he's having a better career than most of the guys that do win shows.

 

[Bio]

injury:lightbulb: would be main reason.

how many guys are pros and never once trained "DC"? a BUNCH
its a workout. bout any decent workout and nutrition/drugs/genetics will do.
did dusty ever become a pro? i always said if he did his career is over. just doesnt have the genetics to battle the genetic elite. hard worker tho... def took his physique far as it would go imo
-F

Yes, he became an IFBB Pro at the 2014 North American Championships.

 

[n3mo0101]

DC was great for me, but recently I have started listening to and applying the techniques Ben Pakulski discusses. I feel like they are better for longevity and may be the "smarter" way to train, not necessarily the "harder" way to train. For instance, I can add weight to a T-bar row week in and week out in DC, but if adding weight isn't necessarily increases the load I apply to my lats because of my lever lengths, physiology, and mind-muscle connection, its sort of pointless if I'm using the exercise to train lats.

I'm not knocking DC training at all because it helped me put on some good size, but I feel like at this point in my lifting I have to work on really mastering the contraction of lagging body parts, even if that means reducing the load.

 

[thethinker48]

The biggest thing about DC training that helped a ton of people wasn't necessarily the routine, it was the principles; which in the long run allowed people to reach their maximum genetic size in accordance to their dose ([emoji846]).

You can run any routine in accordance with your recovery as long as you check these boxes.

Things like progressive overload which isn't just weight, reps and sets can also play a role here.

Caloric burden. Periods of down time and rest.

All of it plays a role in getting you larger.



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[TheOtherOne55]

DC was great for me, but recently I have started listening to and applying the techniques Ben Pakulski discusses. I feel like they are better for longevity and may be the "smarter" way to train, not necessarily the "harder" way to train. For instance, I can add weight to a T-bar row week in and week out in DC, but if adding weight isn't necessarily increases the load I apply to my lats because of my lever lengths, physiology, and mind-muscle connection, its sort of pointless if I'm using the exercise to train lats.

I'm not knocking DC training at all because it helped me put on some good size, but I feel like at this point in my lifting I have to work on really mastering the contraction of lagging body parts, even if that means reducing the load.

I understand what you are saying but DC AND Ben's techniques can be mixed together. They are not black and white and they can easily be worked together. An example of this is what Jordan Peters did this past off season.

He basically stated that he had gotten so damn strong, than he wasn't "feeling" anything anymore. He was essentially Powerlifting and trying to beat the log book. And that right there is where 90% of DC advocates fuck up. What did Jordan do? He checked his ego at the door, dropped the weight down significantly and started again. Slower, more TUT, more of a controlled negative....ALLL shit that Ben is huge on. But with that, Jordan will try and beat that poundage OR rep range in that controlled manner.

TOO many dudes say "DC is harder but its not for longevity." Bullshit.
They say that because they are slinging 405 on incline bench and not feeling their pecs WAITING to tear something. If they dropped it to 315, slowed the hell down and controlled everything, they'd have a mix of the best principles in hypertrophy and strenght progression. Go watch ANY video of Dr. Scott training and see how he handles his "loading sets" (the heavy shit in Fortitude)...

 

[Elvia1023]

I understand what you are saying but DC AND Ben's techniques can be mixed together. They are not black and white and they can easily be worked together. An example of this is what Jordan Peters did this past off season.

He basically stated that he had gotten so damn strong, than he wasn't "feeling" anything anymore. He was essentially Powerlifting and trying to beat the log book. And that right there is where 90% of DC advocates fuck up. What did Jordan do? He checked his ego at the door, dropped the weight down significantly and started again. Slower, more TUT, more of a controlled negative....ALLL shit that Ben is huge on. But with that, Jordan will try and beat that poundage OR rep range in that controlled manner.

TOO many dudes say "DC is harder but its not for longevity." Bullshit.
They say that because they are slinging 405 on incline bench and not feeling their pecs WAITING to tear something. If they dropped it to 315, slowed the hell down and controlled everything, they'd have a mix of the best principles in hypertrophy and strenght progression. Go watch ANY video of Dr. Scott training and see how he handles his "loading sets" (the heavy shit in Fortitude)...

Great post. I think too many get caught up in the poundages especially when seeing others lift huge weight (internet era). Trying to constantly beat the log book usually just gets you injured. You can't just keep increasing weight over years non stop. It has to be done in a sensible way. Now if someone tries to progress in strength slowly over years and basically doesn't ego lift just like you posted then they have a mix of the best principles. None of this is new and I see guys doing what others were years back. I recall some people basically dismissing slow reps years back and now they are all the rage in the world of bodybuilding. Everything comes back in circles as well and nothing is really new. Ben P is great and I have learnt a lot from him. I saw Dennis James doing similar things (training wise) years back and others (Milos Sarcev etc) before him.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Great post. I think too many get caught up in the poundages especially when seeing others lift huge weight (internet era). Trying to constantly beat the log book usually just gets you injured. You can't just keep increasing weight over years non stop. It has to be done in a sensible way. Now if someone tries to progress in strength slowly over years and basically doesn't ego lift just like you posted then they have a mix of the best principles. None of this is new and I see guys doing what others were years back. I recall some people basically dismissing slow reps years back and now they are all the rage in the world of bodybuilding. Everything comes back in circles as well and nothing is really new. Ben P is great and I have learnt a lot from him. I saw Dennis James doing similar things (training wise) years back and others (Milos Sarcev etc) before him.

I'm not a big fan of Ben P. He defines pseudoscience in a lot of his claims. Also continuously states he doesn't have good genetics despite being an Olympia competitor, going from 155 to 260 from 15 to 19 years old, and saying he started "weak as a kitten" to emphasize how he didn't have good genetics meanwhile he was squatting 700+lb at 20 years old. Shit like that really irritates me, just delusional.

As for his lifting principles, he gets some things right of course but other things he says are just flat out false.

 

[FK86]

Also continuously states he doesn't have good genetics despite being an Olympia competitor, going from 155 to 260 from 15 to 19 years old, and saying he started "weak as a kitten" to emphasize how he didn't have good genetics meanwhile he was squatting 700+lb at 20 years old. Shit like that really irritates me

I agree, stuff like that bothers me too. If you're even standing on an IFBB or NPC stage, you're ahead of 99% of people in the gym. I've read Dorian make similar statements. Yeah, you won six Mr. O's, but you didn't have good genetics. Sure, bud.

As for a lot (not all) of these trainers and their scientific approach; they are businessman. The more appealing and complicated something sounds the more someone is likely to think it's the holy grail.

I don't know what's in store for this project, but I hope it maintains it's kind of underground status.

 

[jeroendebleser]

I understand what you are saying but DC AND Ben's techniques can be mixed together. They are not black and white and they can easily be worked together. An example of this is what Jordan Peters did this past off season.

He basically stated that he had gotten so damn strong, than he wasn't "feeling" anything anymore. He was essentially Powerlifting and trying to beat the log book. And that right there is where 90% of DC advocates fuck up. What did Jordan do? He checked his ego at the door, dropped the weight down significantly and started again. Slower, more TUT, more of a controlled negative....ALLL shit that Ben is huge on. But with that, Jordan will try and beat that poundage OR rep range in that controlled manner.

TOO many dudes say "DC is harder but its not for longevity." Bullshit.
They say that because they are slinging 405 on incline bench and not feeling their pecs WAITING to tear something. If they dropped it to 315, slowed the hell down and controlled everything, they'd have a mix of the best principles in hypertrophy and strenght progression. Go watch ANY video of Dr. Scott training and see how he handles his "loading sets" (the heavy shit in Fortitude)...

Definitely the best training post I've read in a while. You should always 'feel' it where you're supposed to feel it and it's a classic mistake I myself have been guilty of many times already although not with DC-training specifically. I found the deliberately controlled negative Dante calls for to take care of that aspect for the most part.

 

[FK86]

I found the deliberately controlled negative Dante calls for to take care of that aspect for the most part.

When YouTube blew up in the early 2000's and we started seeing videos of everyone train, I was shocked at all the bad form. It's always been instinctual to me to do every movement controlled for the very reason of avoiding injury. When you move something around the house, like furniture, it's always done carefully. Nobody sprints towards their couch and tries to pick it up as fast as they can. I don't know why people wouldn't apply that same concept to weight training.

Watching Tom Platz squat, and drop into the hole faster than the elevator in 'Speed' makes me cringe every time. Those sissy hack squats he does too hurt my knees just watching it.

 

[Lou]

Definitely the best training post I've read in a while. You should always 'feel' it where you're supposed to feel it and it's a classic mistake I myself have been guilty of many times already although not with DC-training specifically. I found the deliberately controlled negative Dante calls for to take care of that aspect for the most part.

I also think this is key, and watching JP videos should show someone how you can train heavy, intense and appropriately.

Once has to remember that we are talking about powerbuilding, not powerlifting. You should always progressively overload the target muscles, which translates in increases in weight/load, but not necessarily in increasing weight for a movement. Its easy to start using more muscles when the weight starts to get heavier in a movement, which can actually reduce the load and tension on the target muscle. This is desirable in powerlifting (you can lift more weight as you distribute the weight over more muscles) but counterproductive in powerbuilding (you are progressively losing tension on the target muscle).

Controlling the eccentric is a must, otherwise you are missing a big part of the mechanical stimulus, and you likely would need to do more sets for trying to compensate. A controlled, slow negative helps in the former scenario, as it helps in overloading the target muscle instead of moving a lot of more weight with more non-targeted muscles.

 

[jeroendebleser]

When YouTube blew up in the early 2000's and we started seeing videos of everyone train, I was shocked at all the bad form. It's always been instinctual to me to do every movement controlled for the very reason of avoiding injury. When you move something around the house, like furniture, it's always done carefully. Nobody sprints towards their couch and tries to pick it up as fast as they can. I don't know why people wouldn't apply that same concept to weight training.

Watching Tom Platz squat, and drop into the hole faster than the elevator in 'Speed' makes me cringe every time. Those sissy hack squats he does too hurt my knees just watching it.

I've found a bit of a discrepancy regarding this myself. In theory "The more force someone can apply at the highest velocity, the better his or her peak power outputs." In practice I lose too much of the stretch when I do reps too fast. But you can certainly move more weight this way so it works. I think the (outwardly) sloppy form is because those BB'ers were born to do weight training and they have a far superior mind-muscle connection than most of us so they can make full use of the maximal velocity. Ronnie Coleman training would be a prime example. But it's more risky as you said and it shows in Ronnie's current physical state.

I'm overall a guy that was not born to be doing this activity so it stands to reason I wouldn't do well not deliberately slowing at least the negatives down a bit. (tiny joints, born tall and lanky... your prototypical hardgainer)

 

[Lou]

I've found a bit of a discrepancy regarding this myself. In theory "The more force someone can apply at the highest velocity, the better his or her peak power outputs." In practice I lose too much of the stretch when I do reps too fast. But you can certainly move more weight this way so it works. I think the (outwardly) sloppy form is because those BB'ers were born to do weight training and they have a far superior mind-muscle connection than most of us so they can make full use of the maximal velocity. Ronnie Coleman training would be a prime example. But it's more risky as you said and it shows in Ronnie's current physical state.



I'm overall a guy that was not born to be doing this activity so it stands to reason I wouldn't do well not deliberately slowing at least the negatives down a bit. (tiny joints, born tall and lanky... your prototypical hardgainer)

One can grow *despite* doing a lot of stuff, specially if you have the genetics for it. So a genetically gifted guy might get away training like crap, specially if drugs are involved.

What you mention about velocity refers to the force-velocity curve on the concentric (not the negative), thus arguing for a more explosive concentric as it would produce more force.