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For those who do DC training

Aim to try that combo again when i gofor strength after plateauing on current higher volume training
 
The thing with bodybuilding moreso than with powerlifting, CrossFit, hybrid training….

The TRAINING in of itself doesn’t really matter. Subject whatever muscles to stress (enough to cause adaptation)….then have the required calories and milligrams to cause growth.

For hypertrophy…I could argue that diet/calories and milligram/drug load are literally just as important, maybe moreso…than the specifics of the training.

I mean it’s not rocket science to train a muscle with 12-20 sets a week very near failure. What IS a science is staying healthy enough to do that long term and manipulating the diet to be in a caloric surplus for long periods, maintaining insulin sensitivity, and knowing when to switch gears to pull off fluff when you’ve hit the wall on gains.
 
Ill just say some comments.

1) Part of the equation of bodybuilding is being highly in tune with your body and keeping injury prevention at bay. Every set, every workout, every night before sleeping you should put in as much thought about "is that exercise at that rep range safe for me?" as much thought you do about "gaining muscle".....I have noticed thru time and experience that certain people have this built into themselves. I have it in spades. I will go up in poundage on an exercise or even use an exercise for the first time only and quickly think "Thats it, no more doing this, I will injure myself with this, does not feel right on my "shoulder" or whatever...and that will truly be it. I am on to a new exercise. I dont take chances. Dusty Hanshaw has that built into himself too. Others do too, most bbers dont tho and trudge on and injure themselves without really thinking out exercises and rep ranges. Do not take chances in your training with potential injuries. Just because that guy over there uses 'skull crushers' for example, do not use it if you feel "hmmm this kind of feels like i could injure myself if i go up the ladder with this poundage wise"....Dont!

2) When in doubt raise the rep range! If anything ever feels unsafe but you really love the exercise, RESET IT! Raise the rep range. You can hypertrophy muscle from 5 to 30 reps. Reset it! lighten it up get 30 reps out of it and then work your way up in poundage and then down in reps if needed (slooowwwwlllllyyyy) over time. Again when in doubt, raise the reps.

3) The greatest human experiment ever done in bodybuilding is done every single day in gyms across the world by millions and millions of bodybuilders. Go to your gym today and look around....please I am asking you to. See that guy you say hi to all the time for the last 5 years? The majority of (non drug using) gym goers look the same as they did 5 years ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago and will look the exact same 2 years from now, 5 years from now and onward. What is the common mode of operation of all these millions of bodybuilders that look the same year after year? The majority of gym goers do not train hard and leave multiple "reps in reserve" in abundance. Its an epidemic. Unless they have elite genetics (black), or start using steroids (which confuses them in thinking that they know their shit training wise) they will always look exactly the same. The natural guys who get after it training wise progression wise and grind grind grind, make gains.....the 'multiple reps in reserve guys' who use steroids make that initial "20-30 lbs of muscle mass" EVERYBODY MAKES....and then you quickly see who is a fucking hardcore MF'er in the gym and who is not. The juiced guys who bomb away with progressive weights keep gaining past those "newbie steroid gains" everyone makes and those are the guys you see become the elite lifters in their gym/area/city/state/nationally. The non hard training 'multiple reps in reserve guys' are chronically stuck in that mid intermediate bodybuilder look and will never make it past that look. So what do those guys do? The accuse the massively big guys of using everything under the sun compound and dosage wise to make up for their shortcomings (even though a large amount of these slacker training guys will venture up into higher dosages and compounds themselves and not divulge that)

4) I am not bitching here but the science based community has come along and stamped their "monikers", names and "taglines" on things that used to be known as "common sense". Ive trained for over 3 decades, I have used for lack of better words..."reps in reserve" constantly in my training for over 3 decades......I didnt know someone would ever dare put their name to it when it just seemed like I said "common sense"...with my personal training partners I have called it for decades "planned progression" or "controlled chaos"....Why the hell should I ever try to coin something as "Dante Trudels planned progression or controlled chaos" when its truly common sense?!. For example (and i have done this 10000 times at least) I do an exercise that I know i go up in weight at 25-30 reps (rest paused)....last week i got 17 reps rest paused, I know i dont have 25 reps rest paused in me to get past the plateau this week....I will look at my training partner and say " I think i got 20-22 in me this week and I think I can eke into 25 plus either the week after or the week after that, do you want to do "planned progression?"....he will say "yes" and we both will hit 20-22 even if its a little less than failure so as to make a planned attack at that 25-30 reps i need to go up to in weight weeks from now. Thats just "common freaking sense"....how the hell does someone get to put their name and moniker on that? Powerlifters have been doing that kind of planned progression in their training for decades to go up to a plateau. I would be personally embarrassed to name something that is "COMMON SENSE" after myself, I really would. I keep seeing the science based community doing this over the last 5-6 years. Taking staples that bodybuilders/powerlifters have been doing for eons, and taking it and putting their "ACTUAL NAME" on it, or naming it a moniker of their liking and championing it as their own. What? Huh? I dont get it, and i dont get it why people fall in line and dont think "uhhhh dude we all have been doing that for decades.....what the hell are you talking about?"

5) Rant over......agaion "When in doubt, raise the rep range" .... wait a second since all the guys above are doing it i am going to call that "Dante Trudels raise the rep range protocol" <-----everyone see how stupid that is and sounds?
 
I think after this I will pick one major exercise for each body part and try to progress on that exercise. Then the other ones can be higher reps and more volume. Like this


Back width
Pulldowns and progress on these

Then do maybe
Pullover Machine and go by feel
Underhand pulldown and go by feel

Back thickness

DB rows by feel
Cable rows by feel
Rack deads progress on a heavy and light set on these


Basically each bp will have one progressive overload movement. Then the others go by what you are feeling. Maybe 3 sets 20 or drop set whatever you feel that day.

Just an ideal im thinking of trying.
 
I think after this I will pick one major exercise for each body part and try to progress on that exercise. Then the other ones can be higher reps and more volume. Like this


Back width
Pulldowns and progress on these

Then do maybe
Pullover Machine and go by feel
Underhand pulldown and go by feel

Back thickness

DB rows by feel
Cable rows by feel
Rack deads progress on a heavy and light set on these


Basically each bp will have one progressive overload movement. Then the others go by what you are feeling. Maybe 3 sets 20 or drop set whatever you feel that day.

Just an ideal im thinking of trying.
This is how I treat mountain dog style of training when I cycle that in, when I'm not doing DC. I just can never fully ignore progressive overload in my training.

My first movement is always pump/activation. Then the second movement where we train strength/explosiveness, I have a pool of exercises I have that I use to track progression. On just that second exercise. Just to make sure I'm still moving in the right direction.Then my 3rd and 4th exercise(pump and stretch) I go by feel for that day.
 
I think after this I will pick one major exercise for each body part and try to progress on that exercise. Then the other ones can be higher reps and more volume. Like this


Back width
Pulldowns and progress on these

Then do maybe
Pullover Machine and go by feel
Underhand pulldown and go by feel

Back thickness

DB rows by feel
Cable rows by feel
Rack deads progress on a heavy and light set on these


Basically each bp will have one progressive overload movement. Then the others go by what you are feeling. Maybe 3 sets 20 or drop set whatever you feel that day.

Just an ideal im thinking of trying.


I did similar most training sessions last year

Hammer chest press: beat the log book
Seated dB OHp: Beat the logbook
Dead stop skulls: @DOGGCRAPP classic exercise….beat rhe log book.

Then cycle through 1 more exercise of each body part…..something like a chest fly movement, a middle or rear delt move, then a single arm tricep move.

If you’re sick and twisted, you do a DC set for your first three, then you do a muscle round for the second exercise. It’s a good way to completely trash a 1/3 of your body in an hour.
 
This is how I treat mountain dog style of training when I cycle that in, when I'm not doing DC. I just can never fully ignore progressive overload in my training.

My first movement is always pump/activation. Then the second movement where we train strength/explosiveness, I have a pool of exercises I have that I use to track progression. On just that second exercise. Just to make sure I'm still moving in the right direction.Then my 3rd and 4th exercise(pump and stretch) I go by feel for that day.


I found that if I picked a week I liked in one of his programs…say week 3 legs…..I’d repeat week 3 over and over…chipping away and adding a few pounds or reps to each exercise. When I stalled….i picked a different week and started over.

I love the variability and enjoyment of MD programs, but it gives my OCD ass nightmares when I try to keep track of what was my last triple drop Bulgarian split squat numbers 3 weeks ago lol
 
I found that if I picked a week I liked in one of his programs…say week 3 legs…..I’d repeat week 3 over and over…chipping away and adding a few pounds or reps to each exercise. When I stalled….i picked a different week and started over.

I love the variability and enjoyment of MD programs, but it gives my OCD ass nightmares when I try to keep track of what was my last triple drop Bulgarian split squat numbers 3 weeks ago lol
100% have been doing the same lately. For the same exact OCD reason. I find a week I like, and typically do 4 or more weeks of it. Then 4 weeks of another and progress that. I loosely got the idea from mountain dog trainer cris edmunds where he keeps his MD workouts pretty much the same for 8+ weeks. He might change some intensity techniques based on how he is feeling, but a lot of the heavy movements he just uses top set/back off sets to progress.
 
100% have been doing the same lately. For the same exact OCD reason. I find a week I like, and typically do 4 or more weeks of it. Then 4 weeks of another and progress that. I loosely got the idea from mountain dog trainer cris edmunds where he keeps his MD workouts pretty much the same for 8+ weeks. He might change some intensity techniques based on how he is feeling, but a lot of the heavy movements he just uses top set/back off sets to progress.


Yea I ain’t doing that god
Damn pyramid up a plate per side on the leg press without rest until you can’t, then come all the way back down lol

That one always made me
Sick to my stomach.
 
I did similar most training sessions last year

Hammer chest press: beat the log book
Seated dB OHp: Beat the logbook
Dead stop skulls: @DOGGCRAPP classic exercise….beat rhe log book.

Then cycle through 1 more exercise of each body part…..something like a chest fly movement, a middle or rear delt move, then a single arm tricep move.

If you’re sick and twisted, you do a DC set for your first three, then you do a muscle round for the second exercise. It’s a good way to completely trash a 1/3 of your body in an hour.
I did something similar on legs Wednesday. I done heavy leg press followed by a high set of 30 reps well I got. 28 and that was failure. Then straight in muscle rounds on the leg extension.
 
This is how I treat mountain dog style of training when I cycle that in, when I'm not doing DC. I just can never fully ignore progressive overload in my training.

My first movement is always pump/activation. Then the second movement where we train strength/explosiveness, I have a pool of exercises I have that I use to track progression. On just that second exercise. Just to make sure I'm still moving in the right direction.Then my 3rd and 4th exercise(pump and stretch) I go by feel for that day.
Same here brother. It drives me insane not logging something down to show some progress.
 
Ill just say some comments.

1) Part of the equation of bodybuilding is being highly in tune with your body and keeping injury prevention at bay. Every set, every workout, every night before sleeping you should put in as much thought about "is that exercise at that rep range safe for me?" as much thought you do about "gaining muscle".....I have noticed thru time and experience that certain people have this built into themselves. I have it in spades. I will go up in poundage on an exercise or even use an exercise for the first time only and quickly think "Thats it, no more doing this, I will injure myself with this, does not feel right on my "shoulder" or whatever...and that will truly be it. I am on to a new exercise. I dont take chances. Dusty Hanshaw has that built into himself too. Others do too, most bbers dont tho and trudge on and injure themselves without really thinking out exercises and rep ranges. Do not take chances in your training with potential injuries. Just because that guy over there uses 'skull crushers' for example, do not use it if you feel "hmmm this kind of feels like i could injure myself if i go up the ladder with this poundage wise"....Dont!

2) When in doubt raise the rep range! If anything ever feels unsafe but you really love the exercise, RESET IT! Raise the rep range. You can hypertrophy muscle from 5 to 30 reps. Reset it! lighten it up get 30 reps out of it and then work your way up in poundage and then down in reps if needed (slooowwwwlllllyyyy) over time. Again when in doubt, raise the reps.

3) The greatest human experiment ever done in bodybuilding is done every single day in gyms across the world by millions and millions of bodybuilders. Go to your gym today and look around....please I am asking you to. See that guy you say hi to all the time for the last 5 years? The majority of (non drug using) gym goers look the same as they did 5 years ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago and will look the exact same 2 years from now, 5 years from now and onward. What is the common mode of operation of all these millions of bodybuilders that look the same year after year? The majority of gym goers do not train hard and leave multiple "reps in reserve" in abundance. Its an epidemic. Unless they have elite genetics (black), or start using steroids (which confuses them in thinking that they know their shit training wise) they will always look exactly the same. The natural guys who get after it training wise progression wise and grind grind grind, make gains.....the 'multiple reps in reserve guys' who use steroids make that initial "20-30 lbs of muscle mass" EVERYBODY MAKES....and then you quickly see who is a fucking hardcore MF'er in the gym and who is not. The juiced guys who bomb away with progressive weights keep gaining past those "newbie steroid gains" everyone makes and those are the guys you see become the elite lifters in their gym/area/city/state/nationally. The non hard training 'multiple reps in reserve guys' are chronically stuck in that mid intermediate bodybuilder look and will never make it past that look. So what do those guys do? The accuse the massively big guys of using everything under the sun compound and dosage wise to make up for their shortcomings (even though a large amount of these slacker training guys will venture up into higher dosages and compounds themselves and not divulge that)

4) I am not bitching here but the science based community has come along and stamped their "monikers", names and "taglines" on things that used to be known as "common sense". Ive trained for over 3 decades, I have used for lack of better words..."reps in reserve" constantly in my training for over 3 decades......I didnt know someone would ever dare put their name to it when it just seemed like I said "common sense"...with my personal training partners I have called it for decades "planned progression" or "controlled chaos"....Why the hell should I ever try to coin something as "Dante Trudels planned progression or controlled chaos" when its truly common sense?!. For example (and i have done this 10000 times at least) I do an exercise that I know i go up in weight at 25-30 reps (rest paused)....last week i got 17 reps rest paused, I know i dont have 25 reps rest paused in me to get past the plateau this week....I will look at my training partner and say " I think i got 20-22 in me this week and I think I can eke into 25 plus either the week after or the week after that, do you want to do "planned progression?"....he will say "yes" and we both will hit 20-22 even if its a little less than failure so as to make a planned attack at that 25-30 reps i need to go up to in weight weeks from now. Thats just "common freaking sense"....how the hell does someone get to put their name and moniker on that? Powerlifters have been doing that kind of planned progression in their training for decades to go up to a plateau. I would be personally embarrassed to name something that is "COMMON SENSE" after myself, I really would. I keep seeing the science based community doing this over the last 5-6 years. Taking staples that bodybuilders/powerlifters have been doing for eons, and taking it and putting their "ACTUAL NAME" on it, or naming it a moniker of their liking and championing it as their own. What? Huh? I dont get it, and i dont get it why people fall in line and dont think "uhhhh dude we all have been doing that for decades.....what the hell are you talking about?"

5) Rant over......agaion "When in doubt, raise the rep range" .... wait a second since all the guys above are doing it i am going to call that "Dante Trudels raise the rep range protocol" <-----everyone see how stupid that is and sounds?
Thank you for posting this Dante.

One thing you say here and one of the reasons I respect you is unlike 95% of the people out there today you don't attach your name or identity to the training principles you espouse. You and JP exemplify the model of humility; just passing on knowledge. I try to do the same, even when I wrote a book on this style of training crediting everyone before me. I especially wanted to reach out to the Japanese audience and share what I have learned.

FWIW, at 54 I train this style, with a minimum of 10 reps before failure, sometimes 12 or even 15. I take my rest, get perhaps 3 more, then maybe 2 more.
If I was trying to get bigger (I'm not) I'd add that 1.25kg plate or add more reps, (reps probably going higher first as it is most certainly safer) whichever was most likely to let me progress that day or week.
When the weight refuses to move I'd first look at rest and recovery, including life stress. Then food, then finally gear. Some people probably think I am full of it, but I don't like running a lot of gear.
For me it's a health risk, wasted money, and makes me feel dependent on something that can be taken away (though if I continue living in Japan I have little worry there).
 
Training programs are funny. They all work, especially if it's your favorite one, you'll put 110% effort into it.
This ^^ 👏🏿👏🏿
 
Ill just say some comments.

1) Part of the equation of bodybuilding is being highly in tune with your body and keeping injury prevention at bay. Every set, every workout, every night before sleeping you should put in as much thought about "is that exercise at that rep range safe for me?" as much thought you do about "gaining muscle".....I have noticed thru time and experience that certain people have this built into themselves. I have it in spades. I will go up in poundage on an exercise or even use an exercise for the first time only and quickly think "Thats it, no more doing this, I will injure myself with this, does not feel right on my "shoulder" or whatever...and that will truly be it. I am on to a new exercise. I dont take chances. Dusty Hanshaw has that built into himself too. Others do too, most bbers dont tho and trudge on and injure themselves without really thinking out exercises and rep ranges. Do not take chances in your training with potential injuries. Just because that guy over there uses 'skull crushers' for example, do not use it if you feel "hmmm this kind of feels like i could injure myself if i go up the ladder with this poundage wise"....Dont!

2) When in doubt raise the rep range! If anything ever feels unsafe but you really love the exercise, RESET IT! Raise the rep range. You can hypertrophy muscle from 5 to 30 reps. Reset it! lighten it up get 30 reps out of it and then work your way up in poundage and then down in reps if needed (slooowwwwlllllyyyy) over time. Again when in doubt, raise the reps.

3) The greatest human experiment ever done in bodybuilding is done every single day in gyms across the world by millions and millions of bodybuilders. Go to your gym today and look around....please I am asking you to. See that guy you say hi to all the time for the last 5 years? The majority of (non drug using) gym goers look the same as they did 5 years ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago and will look the exact same 2 years from now, 5 years from now and onward. What is the common mode of operation of all these millions of bodybuilders that look the same year after year? The majority of gym goers do not train hard and leave multiple "reps in reserve" in abundance. Its an epidemic. Unless they have elite genetics (black), or start using steroids (which confuses them in thinking that they know their shit training wise) they will always look exactly the same. The natural guys who get after it training wise progression wise and grind grind grind, make gains.....the 'multiple reps in reserve guys' who use steroids make that initial "20-30 lbs of muscle mass" EVERYBODY MAKES....and then you quickly see who is a fucking hardcore MF'er in the gym and who is not. The juiced guys who bomb away with progressive weights keep gaining past those "newbie steroid gains" everyone makes and those are the guys you see become the elite lifters in their gym/area/city/state/nationally. The non hard training 'multiple reps in reserve guys' are chronically stuck in that mid intermediate bodybuilder look and will never make it past that look. So what do those guys do? The accuse the massively big guys of using everything under the sun compound and dosage wise to make up for their shortcomings (even though a large amount of these slacker training guys will venture up into higher dosages and compounds themselves and not divulge that)

4) I am not bitching here but the science based community has come along and stamped their "monikers", names and "taglines" on things that used to be known as "common sense". Ive trained for over 3 decades, I have used for lack of better words..."reps in reserve" constantly in my training for over 3 decades......I didnt know someone would ever dare put their name to it when it just seemed like I said "common sense"...with my personal training partners I have called it for decades "planned progression" or "controlled chaos"....Why the hell should I ever try to coin something as "Dante Trudels planned progression or controlled chaos" when its truly common sense?!. For example (and i have done this 10000 times at least) I do an exercise that I know i go up in weight at 25-30 reps (rest paused)....last week i got 17 reps rest paused, I know i dont have 25 reps rest paused in me to get past the plateau this week....I will look at my training partner and say " I think i got 20-22 in me this week and I think I can eke into 25 plus either the week after or the week after that, do you want to do "planned progression?"....he will say "yes" and we both will hit 20-22 even if its a little less than failure so as to make a planned attack at that 25-30 reps i need to go up to in weight weeks from now. Thats just "common freaking sense"....how the hell does someone get to put their name and moniker on that? Powerlifters have been doing that kind of planned progression in their training for decades to go up to a plateau. I would be personally embarrassed to name something that is "COMMON SENSE" after myself, I really would. I keep seeing the science based community doing this over the last 5-6 years. Taking staples that bodybuilders/powerlifters have been doing for eons, and taking it and putting their "ACTUAL NAME" on it, or naming it a moniker of their liking and championing it as their own. What? Huh? I dont get it, and i dont get it why people fall in line and dont think "uhhhh dude we all have been doing that for decades.....what the hell are you talking about?"

5) Rant over......agaion "When in doubt, raise the rep range" .... wait a second since all the guys above are doing it i am going to call that "Dante Trudels raise the rep range protocol" <-----everyone see how stupid that is and sounds?
❤❤❤❤❤❤ Love this ^^^👍🏿
 
Thanks Dante. I actually backed off lower reps and now shoot for higher reps. My problem is age related body wise, while my brain and heart are still young.
 
Yea I ain’t doing that god
Damn pyramid up a plate per side on the leg press without rest until you can’t, then come all the way back down lol

That one always made me
Sick to my stomach.

So that's the kind of set that is interesting to me. I've done it. It's fun in the painful twisted way. It's definitely exhausting mentally and physically. But for all that time and effort is it doing more for you than a single ball busting 30 rep widowmaker on the same leg press where you think you're done after 15 smooth piston style reps and you're legs are about to give out but you hold it and take a couple breaths and each time hit another 3,3,2,2,2,1,1,1 til you hit absolute failure.

Does it do more or just tire you out more? Do all those not to failure reps just tire you out and take away a few stimulating reps from the heaviest weight you reach? So instead of hitting 11 with 8 plates per side you hit 9. Which is the more productive set for growth?

Isn't the key to growth load+mechanical tension? Or like Dante says the best position that lets you handle the most weight progressively and safely over time?

That's without taking into account which of either fatigues CNS more and impedes recovery preventing a more frequent next session...

@Hatchet probably said it best... whichever you believe in most you'll give the most to and in turn get the most out of.
 
So that's the kind of set that is interesting to me. I've done it. It's fun in the painful twisted way. It's definitely exhausting mentally and physically. But for all that time and effort is it doing more for you than a single ball busting 30 rep widowmaker on the same leg press where you think you're done after 15 smooth piston style reps and you're legs are about to give out but you hold it and take a couple breaths and each time hit another 3,3,2,2,2,1,1,1 til you hit absolute failure.

Does it do more or just tire you out more? Do all those not to failure reps just tire you out and take away a few stimulating reps from the heaviest weight you reach? So instead of hitting 11 with 8 plates per side you hit 9. Which is the more productive set for growth?

Isn't the key to growth load+mechanical tension? Or like Dante says the best position that lets you handle the most weight progressively and safely over time?

That's without taking into account which of either fatigues CNS more and impedes recovery preventing a more frequent next session...

@Hatchet probably said it best... whichever you believe in most you'll give the most to and in turn get the most out of.

I think John truly believed in just ball busting pain and destruction to grow legs.

Rape the women, pillage the town, burn the crops. Cluster sets+widowmaker + triple drop set on leg press to kick off the day.
 
So that's the kind of set that is interesting to me. I've done it. It's fun in the painful twisted way. It's definitely exhausting mentally and physically. But for all that time and effort is it doing more for you than a single ball busting 30 rep widowmaker on the same leg press where you think you're done after 15 smooth piston style reps and you're legs are about to give out but you hold it and take a couple breaths and each time hit another 3,3,2,2,2,1,1,1 til you hit absolute failure.

Does it do more or just tire you out more? Do all those not to failure reps just tire you out and take away a few stimulating reps from the heaviest weight you reach? So instead of hitting 11 with 8 plates per side you hit 9. Which is the more productive set for growth?

Isn't the key to growth load+mechanical tension? Or like Dante says the best position that lets you handle the most weight progressively and safely over time?

That's without taking into account which of either fatigues CNS more and impedes recovery preventing a more frequent next session...

@Hatchet probably said it best... whichever you believe in most you'll give the most to and in turn get the most out of.

warm up well and do a 50 rep set. lol
its brutal!
to get an idea on weight i think the idea was to take half the amount you can do for 10-12 solid reps and rep that bitch out to 50.
if youre doing 8 plates for 11 that means 4 for 50. which is totally doable. i get better then the 50% ratio, but due to injuries ive been doing higher reps for a while.
50 rep squats are horrible too!
 

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