This board wont believe it but people around him says he is lifetime natural. More power to him.

[bellicose]

I played D1 football for a few years here in Florida. There were some true freaks of nature there. Incredibly large frames, naturally lean, full muscle bellies, most had pathetic work ethics and ate like crap. Mostly black guys but there were a few monster white guys and a Samoan guy that went pro after his senior year.
Honestly most of the guys that I played with that went pro afterwards weren't the ones who had the great genetics but the ones that took their average genetics and worked their asses off.

 

[qbkilla]

I don't understand how you can sit there and just spout off that Strahan and White were natural when you have no inkling if they were or not..especially in those years/times.

So your assuming that all great athletes used aas? Look at ricky Williams, the guy was a genetic freak he took a year off to smoke weed and meditate in the mountains then come back and was trucking new England Patriots in the championship game where little gym rat ray rice could Barley muster a Yard.

The names are irrelevant. We see in football all the time the jacked muscular built up guys...Cushing. Ghosting...Boston.. Tebow..Brady Quinn. These guys can't compete with the genetic freaks, the great athletes.

Randy moss the best wr of all time was skin and bones. Kevin Durant couldn't bench 225. Bozworth was an ox, he got humiliated on the field

My point..success in sports has nothing to do with aas use it has everything to do with generics. Tren test gh aren't making anyone compete with Michael Jordan.

We romanticize aas in sports I'm not sure why. Bill romanowski was juiced to the gills and he was a slug. Lawrence Taylor would run circles around him before he got out of his stance.

 

[Dugbet]

I don't follow your post to be honest, I must have missed the point

If we take your high school class (assume you went to a large school) and we find the fastest guy and the slowest guy. We can juice up the slowest guy for a year and train him and tell the fastest guy to take it easy.

He will still be slower than the slower guy because hie superior genetics. No amount of juice and hard training can make the worst or the worst compete with the best of the best. The little train that thought it could, could not, and never will.

Ohh, you must be high because it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I have repeated the same argument 2 or 3 times, I will not do it again.

 

[Dugbet]

My point..success in sports has nothing to do with aas use it has everything to do with generics. Tren test gh aren't making anyone compete with Michael Jordan.

Taking drugs will not make you compose like Mozart or think like Aristoteles, nor play soccer like Messi or Ronaldinho.

But in today's pro sport, physical performance is paramount, also is resistance and recovery from injuries. The best athletes have to take drugs to keep up, regardless of their birth talent. They also have advanced medical treatments that you will never have (and that in a way should be illegal because some sports are allowed and not in others), which will include peptides or experimentation drugs that are not even on the list WADA ilegal drugs.

 

[thethinker48]

Agree with most of what you said.

Bonds Is a good example. Say when he was naturally he was a 90 out of 100 as a baseball player. he took juice, now he was a 96 out of 100. Was it due to the AAS making him stronger? Probably a little bit. It also probably allowed him to recover better. I'd also bet when he started take AAS he started training more serious, eating better, etc. Whoever introduced him to AAS I'd bet also had him doing better things diet and nutrition wise as well and he probably trained better.

But he went from a 90/100 to a 96/lets say.

Now lets take BJ surhoff ( a skinny player for the orioles). Say he was a 70/100, he could have taken juice and been a 75 or 77/100, but on juice he was still far inferior to bonds before bonds ever juiced.


If we take a random segment of 1000 men. We then take the top 5 bottom genetics and the top 5 best genetics.

The bottom 5 take a gram of tren, primo, test, GH, anavar and slin and hire the best trainer.

The top 5 they just hit the gym 4 or so times a week however they want and eat a decent diet.

The top 5 will still look better than the bottom 5, be stronger, get more women, etc.

Were talking the top 1 percent vs bottom 1 percent.

Drugs help, genetics help 10x more. In my opinion.

We can juice Andy dalton to the gills and then tell pat Mahomes he can't lift for 2 years and has to eat Burger King at least 1x a day, Andy Dalton still won't sniff pat maholmes jock strap lol

No doubt

But it doesn't mean that a genetically gifted person is morally floating above the rest of their peers when it comes to steroid use

 

[Bio]

So your assuming that all great athletes used aas? Look at ricky Williams, the guy was a genetic freak he took a year off to smoke weed and meditate in the mountains then come back and was trucking new England Patriots in the championship game where little gym rat ray rice could Barley muster a Yard.

The names are irrelevant. We see in football all the time the jacked muscular built up guys...Cushing. Ghosting...Boston.. Tebow..Brady Quinn. These guys can't compete with the genetic freaks, the great athletes.

Randy moss the best wr of all time was skin and bones. Kevin Durant couldn't bench 225. Bozworth was an ox, he got humiliated on the field

My point..success in sports has nothing to do with aas use it has everything to do with generics. Tren test gh aren't making anyone compete with Michael Jordan.

We romanticize aas in sports I'm not sure why. Bill romanowski was juiced to the gills and he was a slug. Lawrence Taylor would run circles around him before he got out of his stance.

Yes, most! I know you're a younger guy but you should research drugs in sports. Read Steve Courson's book False Glory: Steelers and Steroids.
It's funny that you think LT didn't use steroids. He was willing to use cocaine and eventually crack cocaine during the season. Here's excerpt from an interview with LT...

I bring up The Original Whizzinator and Onterrio Smith, and L.T. smiles. I'm the first person to tell him the story and he loves it.

"Oh boy, I should've used that. Are you kidding me? Believe me, they know when you're trying to cheat. I've tried everything."

Personally I don't care who uses what to enhance themselves but it's pretty naive to make some of the comparisons you've made considering AAS use in pro sports is rampant.

 

[qbkilla]

Taking drugs will not make you compose like Mozart or think like Aristoteles, nor play soccer like Messi or Ronaldinho.

But in today's pro sport, physical performance is paramount, also is resistance and recovery from injuries. The best athletes have to take drugs to keep up, regardless of their birth talent. They also have advanced medical treatments that you will never have (and that in a way should be illegal because some sports are allowed and not in others), which will include peptides or experimentation drugs that are not even on the list WADA ilegal drugs.

If your saying the best athletes need to use the same recovery protocols as everyone else I agree. The generic elites are useless If they are injured.

If your saying they need aas to be strong, fast, quick enough to compete with their juiced generic inferiors, hard disagree

So maybe we agree.

Steve Kerr juiced to the gills can't hang with a natural Mike Jordan. I assume we agree for the most part although I will say I don't think the peptides that internet bros are buying are part of NFL athletes recovery protocols. Gh, the best doctors, physical therapists, the best doctors, ice baths, advanced massage yes.

 

[qbkilla]

Yes, most! I know you're a younger guy but you should research drugs in sports. Read Steve Courson's book False Glory: Steelers and Steroids.
It's funny that you think LT didn't use steroids. He was willing to use cocaine and eventually crack cocaine during the season. Here's excerpt from an interview with LT...

I bring up The Original Whizzinator and Onterrio Smith, and L.T. smiles. I'm the first person to tell him the story and he loves it.

"Oh boy, I should've used that. Are you kidding me? Believe me, they know when you're trying to cheat. I've tried everything."

Personally I don't care who uses what to enhance themselves but it's pretty naive to make some of the comparisons you've made considering AAS use in pro sports is rampant.

Definitely knew about Lt and the coke

Knowing LT, I believe he could have definitely dabbled in aas use. But I don't think he needed it he could have been the best (he was) without it.

Definitely remember hearing about the Steelers guys using them.

We also have guys like Sam Adams, Ted Washington, tony siragusa, Vince wilfork...these guys are just that much bigger than their peers I think drug free they are still going to be a brick wall out there no one can run on.

 

[maldorf]

It's definitely possible for a natural guy to be bigger and stronger than a guy that's been juicing and lifting hard for decades. There are natural kids in high school squatting incredible amounts that are much more than some adult bodybuilders/powerlifters that have been juicing for decades. I taught at a small high school and we had a boy on the football team that squatted over 600 lbs in a meet. He told me he had never used and I believed him. He looked natural. Just a big country boy. I'd been juicing for about 4 years and was squatting about 500 on a good day, been lifting for about 16 years too. It's not common, but the outliers are there. I do think many bodybuilders under estimate how important genetics are.

By the time you get to professional athletes, I think most use some form of performance enhancement.

 

[qbkilla]

Years ago the biggest guy in the gym who I'd spoke to a few times came up to me and asked me if I'd heard of something called dbol. He said someone told him about it but wasn't sure if he wanted to try it. Never saw him train hard but he looked like he did

Years before that I was at another gym and over time I realized that one of the members was a "guru" from the forums who used a good amount of aas and was considered someone knowledgable on aas use. This guy trained his ass off. To say his physique wasn't impressive would be an understatement. Genetics 101.

 

[Dugbet]

If your saying the best athletes need to use the same recovery protocols as everyone else I agree. The generic elites are useless If they are injured.

If your saying they need aas to be strong, fast, quick enough to compete with their juiced generic inferiors, hard disagree

So maybe we agree.

Steve Kerr juiced to the gills can't hang with a natural Mike Jordan. I assume we agree for the most part although I will say I don't think the peptides that internet bros are buying are part of NFL athletes recovery protocols. Gh, the best doctors, physical therapists, the best doctors, ice baths, advanced massage yes.

In most sports athletes have to get stronger and faster each year.

I don't think Jordan was natural. But he had the ambition and the mentality to improve every day. He had the dedication, the obsessive professionality. That is the most important thing, without that, drugs and genetics will not take you to the top.

Dorian seemed to be the same way, or Jay, Ronnie.

 

[qbkilla]

In most sports athletes have to get stronger and faster each year.

I don't think Jordan was natural. But he had the ambition and the mentality to improve every day. He had the dedication, the obsessive professionality. That is the most important thing, without that, drugs and genetics will not take you to the top.

Dorian seemed to be the same way, or Jay, Ronnie.

What about Johnny manzel. This kid partied and drank and didn't take his spot seriously and won the Heisman trophy.

Josh Gordon was a drug addict and alcoholic whose career was cut short because he couldn't pass a drug test. Suspended about 7 times so he never played.

But when he was able to play ( the times he did test clean) he was the second best receiver in the NFL.

Just pure genetics and talent.

Hard work and aas can make an athlete a better version of himself.

Some athlete's can half ass it and still dominate on talent alone.

John from IT could have juiced to the gills and worked his ass off and get laughed off the Field if he tried out for his d1 college team.

 

[KillerStack]

It's definitely possible for a natural guy to be bigger and stronger than a guy that's been juicing and lifting hard for decades.

Yes true. At the same time anabolics give a certain look that is hard or impossible to duplicate without drugs. Someone could weigh 130lbs with 13 arms but give him enough trenbolone for 6 weeks and it will show even if the scale doesn't move much.

An example. Zac Efron. What do you mean, he's a runt?! You can tell he's taken some hormones.

 

[Dugbet]

What about Johnny manzel. This kid partied and drank and didn't take his spot seriously and won the Heisman trophy.

Josh Gordon was a drug addict and alcoholic whose career was cut short because he couldn't pass a drug test. Suspended about 7 times so he never played.

But when he was able to play ( the times he did test clean) he was the second best receiver in the NFL.

Just pure genetics and talent.

Hard work and aas can make an athlete a better version of himself.

Some athlete's can half ass it and still dominate on talent alone.

John from IT could have juiced to the gills and worked his ass off and get laughed off the Field if he tried out for his d1 college team.

I only actively follow bodybuilding, and I realize some soccer results or summaries. I don't watch and care any other sports so I don't know those guys you mention.


From this point on the discussion turns to a deep and stupid well.

I hate talking about the obvious stuff.

 

[qbkilla]

I only actively follow bodybuilding, and I realize some soccer results or summaries. I don't watch and care any other sports so I don't know those guys you mention.


From this point on the discussion turns to a deep and stupid well.

I hate talking about the obvious stuff.

I don't follow bodybuilding but I do follow and did play sports. If you chose to believe the media driven narrative that anabolic steroid use is the difference in pro sports (and not genetics) you are free too. I agree it's probably stupid to have a strong opinion on something you have no knowledge of (sports) but it doesn't matter anyway if you don't watch them.

Agree to disagree. When I watch the Superbowl I'll consider the winner the best team with the best athletes who were the most clutch coached by the best coaches, not the team with the best drug regimen.

 

[Bio]

I don't follow bodybuilding but I do follow and did play sports. If you chose to believe the media driven narrative that anabolic steroid use is the difference in pro sports (and not genetics) you are free too. I agree it's probably stupid to have a strong opinion on something you have no knowledge of (sports) but it doesn't matter anyway if you don't watch them.

Agree to disagree. When I watch the Superbowl I'll consider the winner the best team with the best athletes who were the most clutch coached by the best coaches, not the team with the best drug regimen.

It's not one or the other as there are no drug free teams in football. It's a combination of both. Yes the more gifted athletes that use AAS or peptides or rec drugs or Adderall or the new undetectable drug or whatever else will have the advantage.

 

[Samson250]

It's not one or the other as there are no drug free teams in football. It's a combination of both. Yes the more gifted athletes that use AAS or peptides or rec drugs or Adderall or the new undetectable drug or whatever else will have the advantage.

Football, college football, basketball, baseball, tennis, golf or freaking chess. I just saw Tiger Woods on the Driving Range crushing balls to Jupiter.

 

[rAJJIN]

Ronni was working out naturally for years, and did his first few show naturally, jest lived there. He started taking more hormones a few month before his first Mr.O and much more after his first Mr.O.

Im
Going to guess the gym owner in Texas introduced them to Ronnie? That guy seem to be no stranger to the game and kind of took RC under his wing

 

[btails]

Football, college football, basketball, baseball, tennis, golf or freaking chess. I just saw Tiger Woods on the Driving Range crushing balls to Jupiter.

Funny thing is tiger was even taking hgh.

Anthony Galea, sports doctor to elite athletes, loses licence for nine months

Renowned Canadian sports doctor was widely known for a blood-spinning injury treatment, although prosecutors said some patients received human growth hormone, which is banned by major sports.

www.thestar.com

Should see Dr. Galea's practice... walls are COVERED with autographed pictures of athletes, including Mr. Jay Cutler.

 

[heavyhitter]

Im
Going to guess the gym owner in Texas introduced them to Ronnie? That guy seem to be no stranger to the game and kind of took RC under his wing

I would nearly guarantee that Brian Dobson was where Ronnie got his AAS info