This board wont believe it but people around him says he is lifetime natural. More power to him.

[emeric delczeg]

Im
Going to guess the gym owner in Texas introduced them to Ronnie? That guy seem to be no stranger to the game and kind of took RC under his wing

Correct, he give him a free membership to his gym, in return Ronni had to start competing in bodybuilding.

 

[Dugbet]

This past weekend the BEN WEIDER NATURAL PRO has just been celebrated.

These champions are naturals, or at least they've passed some kind of drug test.

If you had to bet on which of the 3 champions (open, classic and 212) is closer to the limits of human genetics, which would you do?

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

My answer is that Salazar represents average genetics, that is, very few people can look more massive with that level of condition without drug use.

Lenny might be achievable for a few genetic prodigies, but is not plausible for most.

No one, absolutely no one can look like Abdullah naturally, and he doesn't even have a supreme condition.

 

[totalrecomp]

So your assuming that all great athletes used aas? Look at ricky Williams, the guy was a genetic freak he took a year off to smoke weed and meditate in the mountains then come back and was trucking new England Patriots in the championship game where little gym rat ray rice could Barley muster a Yard.

The names are irrelevant. We see in football all the time the jacked muscular built up guys...Cushing. Ghosting...Boston.. Tebow..Brady Quinn. These guys can't compete with the genetic freaks, the great athletes.

Randy moss the best wr of all time was skin and bones. Kevin Durant couldn't bench 225. Bozworth was an ox, he got humiliated on the field

My point..success in sports has nothing to do with aas use it has everything to do with generics. Tren test gh aren't making anyone compete with Michael Jordan.

We romanticize aas in sports I'm not sure why. Bill romanowski was juiced to the gills and he was a slug. Lawrence Taylor would run circles around him before he got out of his stance.

You do realize there is this HUGE space between holier than thou natural and "juiced to the gills" right? You don't have to be a hulking mass of muscle to make use of drugs for PERFORMANCE enhancement. Lacking an overly muscular physique is a terrible gauge to use for natural assumptions in pro sports.

I think the majority of use at pro levels, IMO, is more for the recovery benefits vs putting on large amounts of muscle.

I think at the highest level it is of course genetics first and foremost but combine those top tier genetics with some assistance and we have reality. Not sure why it is an either-or argument. When the top 1% are competing against other top 1% it's not going to be avacado ice cream(props if you know the reference hint 102.9) that will close or widen the performance gap.

 

[Knight9]

So your assuming that all great athletes used aas? Look at ricky Williams, the guy was a genetic freak he took a year off to smoke weed and meditate in the mountains then come back and was trucking new England Patriots in the championship game where little gym rat ray rice could Barley muster a Yard.

The names are irrelevant. We see in football all the time the jacked muscular built up guys...Cushing. Ghosting...Boston.. Tebow..Brady Quinn. These guys can't compete with the genetic freaks, the great athletes.

Randy moss the best wr of all time was skin and bones. Kevin Durant couldn't bench 225. Bozworth was an ox, he got humiliated on the field

My point..success in sports has nothing to do with aas use it has everything to do with generics. Tren test gh aren't making anyone compete with Michael Jordan.

We romanticize aas in sports I'm not sure why. Bill romanowski was juiced to the gills and he was a slug. Lawrence Taylor would run circles around him before he got out of his stance.

You are special man..LOL. No, YOU are assuming that great athletes at the top of their physically violent sport were clean in likely the dirtiest era known to us. My issue is that you are bringing up these names - including Ricky Williams as if you are certain they never took PED's. Randy Moss is not the best receiver of all time..Jerry Rice is. However, you are correct - he was a specimen that was fast, tall and had hands as well as athletic ability/eye-hand coordiantion.

To your 'point', I can also tell you that you are wrong because there are many examples in sports where a great athlete's success was amplified by PED's. Ever hear of Barry Bonds? He is possibly the best hitter of all time but he would not have reached the peaks he did without THG, The Cream and other drugs in his regimen. Do you think it is a coincidence that MANY baseball players who were proven to have used PED's or accused had monstrous years during and after their prime? Do you think they caught all of them? No - I am certain they didn't. Several players 'down sized' and others stats normalized when things started to tighten up due to the gov't getting involved and testing being implemented.

Your examples are terrible. Lawrence Taylor was a wild ass MF. You have no idea if he took PED's or not but I wouldn't be surprised if he would bang a syringe full if it was available to him and he was convinced it would give him an edge. Who is to say he never did? Who is to say Jordan never did? NOT YOU! And I am also not saying either necessarily did - I am just saying you can't randomly say who did or didn't - especially while we have seen many at the top of their respective sport (who were already great) become even better with PED's. No one even focused on this before 2005 or so. That leaves about 25yrs where these top athletes could be dabbling in whatever they want without the media or anyone else prying into their business.

One other thing - cocaine is a PED when you're a super athlete like LT.

 

[qbkilla]

Lol, you seem emotionally invested in this by your reply like you want to believe that juice makes or breaks athletes.


Juice can close the gap, but the best athletes are the best because they have superior genetics. Anyone who disagrees with that simple logical statement...I'll just pass...I can't even comprehend your thought process to be honest.

We disagree, next thread

 

[airman]

This past weekend the BEN WEIDER NATURAL PRO has just been celebrated.

These champions are naturals, or at least they've passed some kind of drug test.

If you had to bet on which of the 3 champions (open, classic and 212) is closer to the limits of human genetics, which would you do?

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

My answer is that Salazar represents average genetics, that is, very few people can look more massive with that level of condition without drug use.

Lenny might be achievable for a few genetic prodigies, but is not plausible for most.

No one, absolutely no one can look like Abdullah naturally, and he doesn't even have a supreme condition.

In 2019 I had the same coach as Lenny. Went down to Columbus a couple times to lift for the weekend and seen him at the gym. I believe he is natural. He is older, has been powerlifting and working out for decades. He loks much bigger in pictures than in real life. Don't get me wrong, he looks amazing, but some people look a lot better/bigger in contest photos.

His coach (Mike Davies) used to tell me Lenny has never even touched clen and wouldn't know what it was. This is also the same coach, when I showed him a few other 'natural competitors' laughed and called them out right away saying "too round, too bubbly' etc...

Now I could be compeletly wrong , and he has everyone fooled. I usually tend to be very spkeptical. But with Lenny, I'm leaning towards believing.

I'm very happy for him that he made it to the Olympia stage, it's an amazing feat. But I think he is going to get destroyed there, and we will see the difference between a 'natural pro' and standard pro.

 

[Berst]

There are some here who have followed bodybuilding here for many decades, just like yourself, and have somewhat differing perspectives based on what they've seen. Very few experienced guys will discount the importance of genetics - they are everything in bodybuilding. The guy in the first post, yeah okay, he might be clean, but we've seen so many other liars. Remember Lockett who you thought was clean due to his strange physiognomy? He said steroids went against his religion pretty much, he would never ever take them. Then his old lady calls the cops on him for domestic abuse and steroid use LoL.

I still would like to see some pics of these black guys with 20" arms while ripped without ever touching a weight and looking like pro bodybuilders. I've read they are everywhere in the US.

BTW, on another forum some said 405 front squats were very commonplace in high school gyms in the US. All the football players could do it. I asked for perhaps some videos of these feats. They couldn't even find one. I'm not saying it hasn't happened but this is just an example of how people exaggerate. I suspect the same wrt to the black guys who look like pros without training. They have great genetics but people exaggerate.

This is a brilliant post.

I find it staggering the amount of BS talked about bodybuilding and strength, even on a board like this.

260lbs ripped in jail natural and barely training LOL ok
People all over the country with 20 inch arms lean and natural
HS kids front squatting 405
Etc

Even taking into account that people like to exaggerate, I think it is weird.

 

[heavyhitter]

You are special man..LOL. No, YOU are assuming that great athletes at the top of their physically violent sport were clean in likely the dirtiest era known to us. My issue is that you are bringing up these names - including Ricky Williams as if you are certain they never took PED's. Randy Moss is not the best receiver of all time..Jerry Rice is. However, you are correct - he was a specimen that was fast, tall and had hands as well as athletic ability/eye-hand coordiantion.

To your 'point', I can also tell you that you are wrong because there are many examples in sports where a great athlete's success was amplified by PED's. Ever hear of Barry Bonds? He is possibly the best hitter of all time but he would not have reached the peaks he did without THG, The Cream and other drugs in his regimen. Do you think it is a coincidence that MANY baseball players who were proven to have used PED's or accused had monstrous years during and after their prime? Do you think they caught all of them? No - I am certain they didn't. Several players 'down sized' and others stats normalized when things started to tighten up due to the gov't getting involved and testing being implemented.

Your examples are terrible. Lawrence Taylor was a wild ass MF. You have no idea if he took PED's or not but I wouldn't be surprised if he would bang a syringe full if it was available to him and he was convinced it would give him an edge. Who is to say he never did? Who is to say Jordan never did? NOT YOU! And I am also not saying either necessarily did - I am just saying you can't randomly say who did or didn't - especially while we have seen many at the top of their respective sport (who were already great) become even better with PED's. No one even focused on this before 2005 or so. That leaves about 25yrs where these top athletes could be dabbling in whatever they want without the media or anyone else prying into their business.

One other thing - cocaine is a PED when you're a super athlete like LT.

Lance Armstrong doesn’t exactly have an amazing physique….but he got busted too

 

[rAJJIN]

I bought androstene ata young age because of Mark McGwire
Lol androstene

 

[Knight9]

Lol, you seem emotionally invested in this by your reply like you want to believe that juice makes or breaks athletes.


Juice can close the gap, but the best athletes are the best because they have superior genetics. Anyone who disagrees with that simple logical statement...I'll just pass...I can't even comprehend your thought process to be honest.

We disagree, next thread

Try reading it again because that is clearly not what I said.

You are too dense to realize I am saying the same thing. However, super athletes (whether generational talents or amazing athletes who worked to be great) also have looked for every edge they can and many of them over the years used PED's. I can say who on a long list that have been proven or accused, but it is you who apparently thinks that the ones who haven't had their name dropped were 100% natural. Maybe and maybe not but you certainly are not the authority on who was clean or dirty and you are forming your argument as if you can say with absolute certainty.

 

[11111]

This is a brilliant post.

I find it staggering the amount of BS talked about bodybuilding and strength, even on a board like this.

260lbs ripped in jail natural and barely training LOL ok
People all over the country with 20 inch arms lean and natural
HS kids front squatting 405
Etc

Even taking into account that people like to exaggerate, I think it is weird.

Berst, I hear what you're saying, but I don't think anybody in this thread is saying that these kind of genetic freak guys are "common." We're simply just saying that they do exist and are out there.

 

[qbkilla]

Try reading it again because that is clearly not what I said.

You are too dense to realize I am saying the same thing. However, super athletes (whether generational talents or amazing athletes who worked to be great) also have looked for every edge they can and many of them over the years used PED's. I can say who on a long list that have been proven or accused, but it is you who apparently thinks that the ones who haven't had their name dropped were 100% natural. Maybe and maybe not but you certainly are not the authority on who was clean or dirty and you are forming your argument as if you can say with absolute certainty.

Your a little worked up it's only a internet debate about sports. Maybe Im "dense" and didn't communicate clearly, or you didn't quite interpret clearly. Not sure the disconnect

Michal Jordan, Randy Moss, Josh Gordon, Shaq, Michiel Vick (the physically elite, who are the top 1% who make a mockery of their peers in the top 1%) may or may not have used PEDs. You don't know and I don't know. You can't prove they did, and I can't prove they didn't, nor do I care to.

Those top 1% the freaks who make a mockery of the other freaks (you could say they are in the top .1% rather than 1%, would have still been elite had they not used AAS because they were that much more skilled and dominant. That is MY point, not saying they are natural, saying they could have had the same success.

Force Michael Jordan to be natural, put the rest of NBA athletes on some juice regiment. The MVP is still Michael Jordan.

That is MY point, if you feel different'y so be it, but that is my view.

 

[buck]

This past weekend the BEN WEIDER NATURAL PRO has just been celebrated.

These champions are naturals, or at least they've passed some kind of drug test.

If you had to bet on which of the 3 champions (open, classic and 212) is closer to the limits of human genetics, which would you do?

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

Gallerys | NPC News Online

contests.npcnewsonline.com

My answer is that Salazar represents average genetics, that is, very few people can look more massive with that level of condition without drug use.

Lenny might be achievable for a few genetic prodigies, but is not plausible for most.

No one, absolutely no one can look like Abdullah naturally, and he doesn't even have a supreme condition.

I can easily believe that those guys are natural as far as mass. I have known many that are that size. The conditioning would be the tough part.

 

[Dugbet]

In 2019 I had the same coach as Lenny. Went down to Columbus a couple times to lift for the weekend and seen him at the gym. I believe he is natural. He is older, has been powerlifting and working out for decades. He loks much bigger in pictures than in real life. Don't get me wrong, he looks amazing, but some people look a lot better/bigger in contest photos.

His coach (Mike Davies) used to tell me Lenny has never even touched clen and wouldn't know what it was. This is also the same coach, when I showed him a few other 'natural competitors' laughed and called them out right away saying "too round, too bubbly' etc...

Now I could be compeletly wrong , and he has everyone fooled. I usually tend to be very spkeptical. But with Lenny, I'm leaning towards believing.

I'm very happy for him that he made it to the Olympia stage, it's an amazing feat. But I think he is going to get destroyed there, and we will see the difference between a 'natural pro' and standard pro.

I am skeptical also, but sometimes it amazes me what some veterans and experienced people come to believe.

We are all adults, we have eyes and brains, experience and knowledge of drugs and how works the world of sports and physique contests.

Only Lenny knows what he has used or not, but we must evaluate based on the probabilities. He may be perfectly natural, he is not an easy, but he is not impossible either. And that is the point.

Also, if someone shows off their natural status and flaunts it, earns money and fame ... it is a reason to distrust.

Lenny won his pro card in an untested show, but he competes in classic, where there is a weight limit but the most pleasant forms are rewarded. He doesn't weigh 40 pounds over his height, and neither look like marvel super hero.

 

[Dugbet]

Those top 1% the freaks who make a mockery of the other freaks (you could say they are in the top .1% rather than 1%, would have still been elite had they not used AAS because they were that much more skilled and dominant.

That's true for many sports because sports in general require skill or talent, not just strength or speed.

But take the case of Lance, he was a mediocre cyclist before his testicular cancer. He then miraculously recovered and started winning tours crushing the competition.

In bodybuilding, you have natural athletes who might respond like crap to drugs.

So it doesn't always work that way, the best athlete in a world without drugs does not have to be the best athlete in a world with drugs.

 

[qbkilla]

That's true for many sports because sports in general require skill or talent, not just strength or speed.

But take the case of Lance, he was a mediocre cyclist before his testicular cancer. He then miraculously recovered and started winning tours crushing the competition.

In bodybuilding, you have natural athletes who might respond like crap to drugs.

So it doesn't always work that way, the best athlete in a world without drugs does not have to be the best athlete in a world with drugs.

I agree with Lance, he absolutely used drugs to boost his endurance and give him an advantage. Not sure if it was blood doping, epo, etc

Also a powerlifter, weight lifter can absolutely increase their performance with ass, agree on that.

I was more referring to the thought that aas are leaving the playing field in competitive sports that require skill, the NBA, the NFL, and mlb especially the false media driven narrative/witch hunt that people took hook line and sinker that players (I guess only hitters) discovered steroids in the late 90s took them and started hitting more home runs. (Hint they hit more today)The "steroid era of baseball" myth. That can be debunked with 15 minutes or research and a little critical thinking.

But in sports such as endurance, cycling, strongman, weight lifting where people simply compete against their own natural limits (man vs self) absolutely.

In skill based sports, man vs man, they don't move the needle (lol) much in my opinion.

 

[LK3]

Try reading it again because that is clearly not what I said.

You are too dense to realize I am saying the same thing. However, super athletes (whether generational talents or amazing athletes who worked to be great) also have looked for every edge they can and many of them over the years used PED's. I can say who on a long list that have been proven or accused, but it is you who apparently thinks that the ones who haven't had their name dropped were 100% natural. Maybe and maybe not but you certainly are not the authority on who was clean or dirty and you are forming your argument as if you can say with absolute certainty.

it doesnt take a super athlete. all it takes is understanding how to use drugs.
amphetamines were used in cycling for a looong time.
coke is ( if used right ) is an amazing pre workout. im not talking about sniffing something you think might be it. if thats the pic in your head, then, well.. shows the level of whats in your head.

where are we going with all this?
basically we have established that people by and large use drugs.

and then?

 

[Kaladryn]

Like 90% of these posts are total BS. I could easily break down each one but it's not worth my time.

Almost all of you guys are completely wrong.

 

[maldorf]

I think the whole point of the thread is basically that some guys can look very impressive, and most assume that they used steroids at some point to achieve the look. In reality, that man may have never touched steroids. It is possible, to some point. Many of us have seen incredible natural physiques and acts of strength. The lucky guy is able to reach levels that most of us would require drugs to achieve.

 

[nothuman]

If you don't believe the guy it's because you are a jealous lazy bastard who makes excuses for your lack of discipline and heavy slag iron for 30 years. If you do believe him without reservations you are the type of person who will fall for anything and will be taken advantage of.

Online I'm the guy who thinks all naturals are lying. But IRL I'm called gullible when I say so and so might be natural or only uses baby doses.

This.

You must be one or the other. You can't be somewhere in the middle