An illustration of a rational approach to cycle design (e.g., a short, minimally suppressive, recomp cycle for a photo shoot/film) [Author: Type-IIx]

[Type-IIx]

For those than cannot tolerate Tren (stomach, appetite issues) can Trest Ace be substituted? Or what compound would you recommend?

I cannot suggest any viable alternative to Tren here as presented. MENT is inappropriate because it is particularly potent in its suppressive effects (on par with testosterone+etonogestrel), hence its viability for male contraception. Whereas Tren is synergistic with Test and serves the objective of recomp (due to its anti-adipogenic/lipolytic and insulin sensitizing features), MENT is a potently estrogenic agent, best used in the off-season, that serves only to increase mass and suppress the HPG axis (more than Tren), contrary to the objective (recomp) and task (minimal HPG axis suppression).

 

[BLang]

And you do?

Lift, eat, sleep, repeat and stop worrying about drugs. You can shut me up real quick my posting a pic of you ripped above 225 /shrug

Did I say I had an opinion on it either way?

Again, I just asked if you had an actual counterargument.

The fact that you've already devolved to "DYEL BRO???" makes it pretty clear how much anyone should take your opinion seriously.

 

[tren_plz]

My counter argument is Proviron sucks. Pretty evident.

Your response proves you dont lift though.

GL bud. Keep searching for that magic steroid to change your physique.

 

[luki7788]

in the real world, using only a drug for 2 weeks will not give really noticeable results - maybe only results visible in laboratory conditions, but not those that can be seen with the naked eye ... well, maybe losing a little subcutaneous water after stopping the test

 

[Type-IIx]

in the real world, using only a drug for 2 weeks will not give really noticeable results - maybe only results visible in laboratory conditions, but not those that can be seen with the naked eye ... well, maybe losing a little subcutaneous water after stopping the test

Interesting, it worked quite well for my client that did his photo shoot last week, and he's still able to train with regular intensity because he feels great.

 

[luki7788]

Interesting, it worked quite well for my client that did his photo shoot last week, and he's still able to train with regular intensity because he feels great.

but this is the same what most bodybuilders have been doing for years, i.e. at the end of their preparations, they put off everything that aromatizes and maximized dht derivatives - so as you can see, the bodybuilders did not need research to come to such conclusions

 

[BLang]

I cannot suggest any viable alternative to Tren here as presented. MENT is inappropriate because it is particularly potent in its suppressive effects (on par with testosterone+etonogestrel), hence its viability for male contraception. Whereas Tren is synergistic with Test and serves the objective of recomp (due to its anti-adipogenic/lipolytic and insulin sensitizing features), MENT is a potently estrogenic agent, best used in the off-season, that serves only to increase mass and suppress the HPG axis (more than Tren), contrary to the objective (recomp) and task (minimal HPG axis suppression).

WRT Glucocorticoid suppression, particularly if Tren was unavailable, would you ever consider Halotestin? Other than the fact it seems suppressive, is generally nasty AF if run more than a couple of weeks, etc. hahaha

Var at the end seems to fit the bill for the same effect, but I'm still curious if it's something that would even be in consideration.

 

[BLang]

in the real world, using only a drug for 2 weeks will not give really noticeable results - maybe only results visible in laboratory conditions, but not those that can be seen with the naked eye ... well, maybe losing a little subcutaneous water after stopping the test

This is a recent 7 day change from a client who ran a low dose of Var, only 4x, over the course of that week.

Granted, basically every condition was in place for him to have a dramatic tightening of his stomach (formerly obese, isn't super lean, tends to run high cortisol, was due for a water-weight drop, first time running Var on an otherwise low-dose cycle, etc.), but I've seen this or something similar enough times to know that even a low dose of Var can have a dramatic visual effect very quickly.

And yes, this is going to be nearly all SubQ water, but we're talking about prepping for a photo shoot here, and the visual results are what matters, right?

And, similar to TypeII's anecdote, this client's training went from *seeing the first signs of dragging ass after 9-10 weeks of cutting* to *holy shit these workouts are the best of my life*. That's worth something.

 

[luki7788]

View attachment 162205

This is a recent 7 day change from a client who ran a low dose of Var, only 4x, over the course of that week.

Granted, basically every condition was in place for him to have a dramatic tightening of his stomach (formerly obese, isn't super lean, tends to run high cortisol, was due for a water-weight drop, first time running Var on an otherwise low-dose cycle, etc.), but I've seen this or something similar enough times to know that even a low dose of Var can have a dramatic visual effect very quickly.

And yes, this is going to be nearly all SubQ water, but we're talking about prepping for a photo shoot here, and the visual results are what matters, right?

And, similar to TypeII's anecdote, this client's training went from *seeing the first signs of dragging ass after 9-10 weeks of cutting* to *holy shit these workouts are the best of my life*. That's worth something.

lol no hate but you really think these are the dramatic results...?

 

[tren_plz]

View attachment 162205

This is a recent 7 day change from a client who ran a low dose of Var, only 4x, over the course of that week.

Granted, basically every condition was in place for him to have a dramatic tightening of his stomach (formerly obese, isn't super lean, tends to run high cortisol, was due for a water-weight drop, first time running Var on an otherwise low-dose cycle, etc.), but I've seen this or something similar enough times to know that even a low dose of Var can have a dramatic visual effect very quickly.

And yes, this is going to be nearly all SubQ water, but we're talking about prepping for a photo shoot here, and the visual results are what matters, right?

And, similar to TypeII's anecdote, this client's training went from *seeing the first signs of dragging ass after 9-10 weeks of cutting* to *holy shit these workouts are the best of my life*. That's worth something.

Yes, lets put the obese 40 year old man on Orals...

If you can't clean yourself on TRT, diet, cardio...pick a new hobby.

 

[danieltx]

I cannot suggest any viable alternative to Tren here as presented. MENT is inappropriate because it is particularly potent in its suppressive effects (on par with testosterone+etonogestrel), hence its viability for male contraception. Whereas Tren is synergistic with Test and serves the objective of recomp (due to its anti-adipogenic/lipolytic and insulin sensitizing features), MENT is a potently estrogenic agent, best used in the off-season, that serves only to increase mass and suppress the HPG axis (more than Tren), contrary to the objective (recomp) and task (minimal HPG axis suppression).

What are your thoughts on the human trials for trestolone as contraception? When trestolone came back in vogue around 7 years ago I found them (conclusion: not reliable enough at suppression to be male contraception) but haven't been able to the last few years.

 

[juggy38]

Yes, lets put the obese 40 year old man on Orals...

If you can't clean yourself on TRT, diet, cardio...pick a new hobby.

I have no dog in this fight, but we do put burn patients, HIV, and cachexia patients on anavar. If a 40yr old man wants to do low dose var to speed shit up…I mean…..is there a “jackedness” we need to reach to add in drugs?

 

[BLang]

Yes, lets put the obese 40 year old man on Orals...

If you can't clean yourself on TRT, diet, cardio...pick a new hobby.

I get that it looks it in those pics, but he's neither obese or anywhere remotely close to 40. He DEXA'd at 16.4% shortly before the above pics. And he's much, MUCH younger than 40.

He was pushing 300lbs last year and has significant loose skin and visceral fat which makes that particular portion of his body visually problematic, he looks his BF% everywhere else.

Again, the var dose he's running is extremely low and IMO absolutely worth it for the remainder of his cut.

FWIW because antagonistic convos online are no fun, as a feel-good side note, he came to me after making little-to-no progress running a full blast on a cookie cutter program/diet he got from an IFBB Pro. After getting him truly dialed in (training, nutrition, etc. you know the deal) and running less than half the anabolics, he's made amazing progress.

After seeing how much progress he's made on such little gear, he's had the epiphany that it's actually not the drugs that he needed in the first place, and has decided (after originally planning to BnC for life) to PCT off and see what he can do natty once he's done with this cut. I couldn't be more proud of that.

Alright, done derailing.

 

[tren_plz]

I have no dog in this fight, but we do put burn patients, HIV, and cachexia patients on anavar. If a 40yr old man wants to do low dose var to speed shit up…I mean…..is there a “jackedness” we need to reach to add in drugs?

Yeah, i think there is a required 'jackness'. If I was helping someone who looked like that, they would be on zero orals no questions asked.

Thats literally whats happening now with kids running sarms, tren, etc at 18 years old.

That dude needs a LIFESTYLE change, not new drugs. TRT + Nutrition + Cardio = winning.

12 weeks from now if he's in a great spot, sure add some mast 200mg. Does that guy look like he's on steroids? No, he looks like he's making your cold brew coffee.

 

[BLang]

Haha, I agree, and you should've realize by now you're barking up the wrong tree. I literally took the guy from a stupid blast to TRT+ and now is planning to go natty because of working with me.

But, you've found your imaginary hill and planted your imaginary flag and are obviously committed to just yelling into the fog of war, so here we are.

Anyway, since you want to keep windmilling, the fact that "add some Mast 200mg" is your go-to is just further indication that your understanding of compounds and cycle design is archaic and outdated.

 

[tren_plz]

Haha, I agree, and you should've realize by now you're barking up the wrong tree. I literally took the guy from a stupid blast to TRT+ and now is planning to go natty because of working with me.

But, you've found your imaginary hill and planted your imaginary flag and are obviously committed to just yelling into the fog of war, so here we are.

Anyway, since you want to keep windmilling, the fact that "add some Mast 200mg" is your go-to is just further indication that your understanding of compounds and cycle design is archaic and outdated.

Only after running very little drugs, did he realize how not important they are? Weird full circle of events there...lol

My compound and application is more advanced than 99% of this board considering whos in my circle and what i get to see from top amateurs/pros, but hey, seriously GL with your coaching business.

 

[Creation]

Looks like a good addition to HRT 8 on 8 off

 

[specter]

What are your thoughts on the human trials for trestolone as contraception? When trestolone came back in vogue around 7 years ago I found them (conclusion: not reliable enough at suppression to be male contraception) but haven't been able to the last few years.

Ment failed as a contraceptive when Beyer was testing it.

 

[Ash Housewares]

Does that guy look like he's on steroids? No, he looks like he's making your cold brew coffee.

Sorry, couldn’t resist LOL!

 

[BigNJ]

in the real world, using only a drug for 2 weeks will not give really noticeable results - maybe only results visible in laboratory conditions, but not those that can be seen with the naked eye ... well, maybe losing a little subcutaneous water after stopping the test

I've been saying that in the AAS pre-workout thread.

No steroid will give any substantial result unless it's taken for a long period of time. People tend to forget that muscle accretion takes time, also people tend to forget that AAS tilt the scale in Nitrong balance and that's where the majority of the Anabolic properties come from. Increased nitrogen balance, decreased protein degradation, decreased cortisol, increased Insulin sensitivity (Deca is great for this here) etc etc...