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An illustration of a rational approach to cycle design (e.g., a short, minimally suppressive, recomp cycle for a photo shoot/film) [Author: Type-IIx]

Type-IIx

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An illustration of a rational approach to an androgen (AAS) course
Author: Type-IIx

The individual is a healthy young man that derives an income from his physique (modeling, acting). His principal objective is recomp (↑FFM & ↓FM) for an upcoming photo shoot.

Considerations:
i. Absolute unwillingness to "blast & cruise," therefore
ii. Maximal maintenance of FFM (particularly, skeletal muscle) after the course has been completed
iii. Inaccessibility to or no availability for hCG & hMG (that serve the task of maintenance of HPG axis functioning [spermatogenesis & steroidogenesis, etc.])

Then,

Planning considerations include:
a. theoretical minimal suppression coupled with maximal anabolism (favorable risk/reward tradeoff with respect to HPG axis functioning) to preserve muscle size increases post-cessation
b. temporal placement (i.e., first) of potent & moderately suppressive androgens that are synergistic in combination (such that we can lower dose & attenuate HPG axis suppressive effects) & subsequent temporal placement (i.e., last) of less suppressive androgens that serve to taper net suppressive effects
c. durations of activity & time-course (pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic considerations) of HPG axis suppression (decrement to/withdrawal from LH, etc.) of the individual androgens (e.g., ester chain lengths; biological PK/PD data)

Compound selection is oriented around the overarching objective (recomp) & the task, here, attenuation of HPG axis suppression (to preserve muscle mass after cessation):

The optimal compounds here, then are:
Testosterone Propionate (TP)
Trenbolone Acetate (TBA; Tren)
Drostanolone Propionate (Mast P; Masteron)
Oxandrolone (Anavar)

Practical (Design & Implementation) Considerations:

I. A 6+2 design. The initial 6 weeks will be oriented towards maximal muscle anabolism, seeking to use doses & compounds that are synergistic (greater than additive; 1 + 1 > 2) and potent, with some suppressive effects certainly, but that can be ameliorated by temporal placement (i.e., first) and modest dosing considering durations of activity, PK/PD, clearance/elimination half-life, etc., and a subsequent temporal placement (i.e., last) of less suppressive compounds that serve as a sort of taper in net suppressive effects

Weeks 1 - 6: initial temporal placement (i.e., first) of potent short ester compounds that are synergistic in combination x 6 weeks (i.e., TBA & TP) but suppressive of HPG axis functioning

Weeks 7 - 8: subsequent temporal placement (i.e., last) of milder & less suppressive androgens x 2 weeks (drostanolone propionate & oxandrolone)
- a.m./waking oral ingestion (i.e., Anavar) preferred & with consideration of durations of activity/suppressive effects on LH, etc.

II. Chemistry:

Weeks 1 - 6:
- Testosterone Propionate (TP): androst-4-ene-3-one [e.g., 450 mg weekly, moderate (150 mg T, R, Su)]
- Trenbolone Acetate (Tren; TBA): triene (Δ4,9,11) [e.g., 150 mg weekly, moderate (50 mg T, R, Su)]

Weeks 7 - 8:
- Drostanolone Propionate (Mast P; Masteron): 5α-androstan-3-one [e.g., 150 mg weekly, low (75 mg R, Su)]
- Oxandrolone (Anavar): 5α-androstan-3-one [e.g., 25 mg T - Su, low-moderate (e.g., 150 mg weekly)], a.m./waking ingestion

Assumptions:
1. total exogenous androgen/AAS washout is not necessary to remove the stressors to HPG axis functioning and to exert a permissible effect on restoration of spermatogenesis & steroidogenesis
2. modest concentrations arising from such from doses & metabolism/excretion of short-chained esters (e.g., acetate, propionate), given the illustrative examples, are less than maximally suppressive
3. The reader understands the unique features of these compounds (i.e., TMT) and anti-adipogenic & lipolytic mechanisms, interactions between aromatizable & non-aromatizable androgens, contribution of estrogens/progestagenic androgens to HPG axis suppression, etc.
 
Nicely written and thought out. What does the post cycle look like
Au naturel. Following this illustrative example, a healthy man should be rapidly eugonadal. The healthy man could use 2.5 mg oxandrolone (completely nonsuppressive & provides for basal AR function) as needed if not at 100% functioning.
 
I would like to see this but without the “Inaccessibility to HCG or HMG”

Most people who blast and cruise are on for life and running hcg or don’t care about losing gains after
 
I would like to see this but without the “Inaccessibility to HCG or HMG”

Most people who blast and cruise are on for life and running hcg or don’t care about losing gains after
If the user is willing to blast and cruise & hCG & hMG are accessible, then there can be a total disregard to the task (mitigating HPG axis suppression) and the illustration is rendered entirely irrelevant to your case.
 
I like the way you write TIIx, it makes me have to recall root medical terminology from college Bio and Chemistry courses

This is just my opinion after some years of doing this. I genuinely don't think compound selection matters. Maybe in the last few weeks of of a contest prep. But just to look good, or an in off season it doesn't really matter

You just need as much or as little of gear as necessary for your goal. You can pretty much look great on any combination of these drugs. The things that determine choice would be a person's health, sides, and tolerance. GH can be used as an amplifier in this regard as well
 
I like the way you write TIIx, it makes me have to recall root medical terminology from college Bio and Chemistry courses

This is just my opinion after some years of doing this. I genuinely don't think compound selection matters. Maybe in the last few weeks of of a contest prep. But just to look good, or an in off season it doesn't really matter

You just need as much or as little of gear as necessary for your goal. You can pretty much look great on any combination of these drugs. The things that determine choice would be a person's health, sides, and tolerance. GH can be used as an amplifier in this regard as well
Thank you for the kind words brother! I've heard this reasoning often, to which I will posit, if this is true then why doesn't everyone just use solo Tren (if it's ~>3X more potent [per AR nuclear retention] and <3X more expensive than testosterone enanthate per mg), or just straight Testosterone (given widespread availability)? Dose dependent on goal.
 
Just making sure I'm reading this right, you're saying spermatogenesis can be maintained while on a blast with hCG and hMG? @Type-IIx
 
Solid and well thought out. Only thing I can think of (as it's obviously very complete) would be to add his age/experience/info or his build just to give people more info on the type of person that might apply this. I think most guys probably have it right in their mind, as plenty of hints to go off, but those who would find this most useful and implement may be served well.
 
Love it.

The first question of course is, is there any particular reason Mast Prop is more well suited for this than Primo Ace?
 
Thank you for the kind words brother! I've heard this reasoning often, to which I will posit, if this is true then why doesn't everyone just use solo Tren (if it's ~>3X more potent [per AR nuclear retention] and <3X more expensive than testosterone enanthate per mg), or just straight Testosterone (given widespread availability)? Dose dependent on goal.
Tren is just too harsh of a compound to justify it's use often unless a person tolerates it extremely well

Testosterone is actually pretty commonly used as a solo compound by those who tolerate it well. Many pros and national level guys run medium to high testosterone only with GH and insulin for off season. Also something to be said about having some estrogen in your system, both from a health and well being standpoint which both directly and indirectly helps with muscle growth

I know the many discussions between compound selections and their use. I think whatever a person tolerates, and agrees with on their bloodwork can be used. Dose adjusted according to goal and response

Meadows used to say that if you can't grow off test, growth and insulin; quit, this isn't the sport for you. Pretty simple statement with a lot of truth in it.
 
Love it.

The first question of course is, is there any particular reason Mast Prop is more well suited for this than Primo Ace?
Primo Ace oral is just prohibitively expensive for significant anabolism in men and is intolerably painful in its injectible form; and methenolone enathate given its duration of activity will chronically suppress HPG axis functioning. Proviron is a viable alternative, though with attenuated anabolism, it does serve the objective of recomp as a mild hardening/anti-adipogenic compound and the task by being almost entirely nonsupressive.
 
Tren is just too harsh of a compound to justify it's use often unless a person tolerates it extremely well

Testosterone is actually pretty commonly used as a solo compound by those who tolerate it well. Many pros and national level guys run medium to high testosterone only with GH and insulin for off season. Also something to be said about having some estrogen in your system, both from a health and well being standpoint which both directly and indirectly helps with muscle growth

I know the many discussions between compound selections and their use. I think whatever a person tolerates, and agrees with on their bloodwork can be used. Dose adjusted according to goal and response

Meadows used to say that if you can't grow off test, growth and insulin; quit, this isn't the sport for you. Pretty simple statement with a lot of truth in it.
Tren solo is a bad idea just because it's "harsh?" So, you're committed to a position that Tren only (no Test) at 10 mg weekly is a poor choice because harsh?

You pivoted away from my central question: why doesn't everyone do either X) tren solo, exclusive or Y) test solo?
 
Tren solo is a bad idea just because it's "harsh?" So, you're committed to a position that Tren only (no Test) at 10 mg weekly is a poor choice because harsh?

You pivoted away from my central question: why doesn't everyone do either X) tren solo, exclusive or Y) test solo?

Yes and no. The dose creates the poison, we know that. So 10 mgs weekly is prob not going to produce the kind of toxicity I'm referring to. Large doses however will.

I kind of understand the point of using multiple compounds for synergy. Test + DHT for example, both from an estrogen modulation and SHBG infuence standpoint. Because at some point driving testosterone to the ceiling will produce undesirable side effects (estrogen, water retention even with harsh AI usage). So combining two compounds yields the benefit of not going that route. There are also guys who use just testosterone with GH and grow perfectly fine.

My point I think is that whether you use test and deca, or test and eq, or test and primo. It's not making a significant impact on the long term progress of an individual. From a health perspective you can choose what suits you well. Cosmetically sure, certain drugs will give you certain advantages which why they are used in prep.

Just my opinion on this.
 
Yes and no. The dose creates the poison, we know that. So 10 mgs weekly is prob not going to produce the kind of toxicity I'm referring to. Large doses however will.

I kind of understand the point of using multiple compounds for synergy. Test + DHT for example, both from an estrogen modulation and SHBG infuence standpoint. Because at some point driving testosterone to the ceiling will produce undesirable side effects (estrogen, water retention even with harsh AI usage). So combining two compounds yields the benefit of not going that route. There are also guys who use just testosterone with GH and grow perfectly fine.

My point I think is that whether you use test and deca, or test and eq, or test and primo. It's not making a significant impact on the long term progress of an individual. From a health perspective you can choose what suits you well. Cosmetically sure, certain drugs will give you certain advantages which why they are used in prep.

Just my opinion on this.
You got it, these compounds are synergistic and serve important complementary functions (e.g., Test should always be combined with Tren because Test is aromatizable & 5α-reducible whereas Tren is resistant to both, Test increases circulating IGF-I while Tren decreases it [and dramatically increases muscle cell responsiveness to local/paracrine IGF-I], etc.).
 
I know it's anecdotal, but believe me when I say that hCG has been saving my ass for years. I didn't always have access to HMG but hCG has been saving my balls (hypogonadism literally means undersized balls). I believe it's why I've always been able to come off. Silly maybe.
 
I know it's anecdotal, but believe me when I say that hCG has been saving my ass for years. I didn't always have access to HMG but hCG has been saving my balls (hypogonadism literally means undersized balls). I believe it's why I've always been able to come off. Silly maybe.
What kind of dose have you had luck with?
 
@Type-IIx, does nandrolone exhibit any of the GR receptor actions that make trenbolone so effective as an anti-catabolic?

Or is it exclusively tren?
 

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