Do higher doses make it easy to stay lean?

[b-boy]

Here’s a small study done with a group of 50 that shows the results mentioned where they gained more muscle area on 600mg of test with no exercise than the control group who did exercise with a placebo.

The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men

www.nejm.org

I've seen this study, I'm more interested in the gained LBM and lost more far results in the other study, I want to know calories and diet composition of each group. I am very well aware you can take steroids and gain muscle doing nothing. Gaining muscle and losing fat in contrast to a group that was "dieting"...hmmmm like to see said study.

 

[maldorf]

Your glucose is good and theoretically it can lead to off-season, but I certainly wouldn't raise the calories in this case, just try to "grow in the same weight" because 13-15% of fat is definitely too much for me. Here I am of the same opinion as Justin Harris that the optimal level of adipose tissue for the best growth is between 6 and 10%

So you feel like you are more able to grow more muscle tissue when you are very lean, between 6 and 10%?

 

[b-boy]

So you feel like you are more able to grow more muscle tissue when you are very lean, between 6 and 10%?

Of course you are!!!!!

 

[luki7788]

So you feel like you are more able to grow more muscle tissue when you are very lean, between 6 and 10%?

no doubt - yes

 

[maldorf]

no doubt - yes

Anyone have a physiological mechanism as to why? Just curious. I know from my experience that it seemed true, but it could be due to the fact that I was leanest while on cycles. So for me I couldn't separate being lean from being on steroids.

Pretty sure estrogen is lower when you're lean. Maybe lower conversion of testosterone to estrogen?

 

[chrisrivers]

Anyone have a physiological mechanism as to why? Just curious. I know from my experience that it seemed true, but it could be due to the fact that I was leanest while on cycles. So for me I couldn't separate being lean from being on steroids.

Pretty sure estrogen is lower when you're lean. Maybe lower conversion of testosterone to estrogen?

With no data to back this up, that's the main reason I feel a better quality growth when I'm lesser BF. Like I stated no hard evidence, just using the mirror.

 

[luki7788]

Anyone have a physiological mechanism as to why? Just curious. I know from my experience that it seemed true, but it could be due to the fact that I was leanest while on cycles. So for me I couldn't separate being lean from being on steroids.

Pretty sure estrogen is lower when you're lean. Maybe lower conversion of testosterone to estrogen?

at lower% bf there is lower conversion to estrogen but guys what do you have with this estrogen ... you need some estrogen but not as much as a pregnant woman lol

 

[johnjuanb1]

you don't need so much gear in the rebound phase ... 1/3 of the doses you had during prep will easily do the job you don't need that much gh either

Exactly! Eat big and clean with minimal gear. I will say if you’re going completely natural for two months after the show, like many intelligent top pros do, you will gain some fat and lose muscle, but it’ll benefit you in the long run, and once you go back on gear results will be accelerated. With a little AAS and HGH you’ll grow and stay lean during the rebound.

 

[jaxino]

I've seen this study, I'm more interested in the gained LBM and lost more far results in the other study, I want to know calories and diet composition of each group. I am very well aware you can take steroids and gain muscle doing nothing. Gaining muscle and losing fat in contrast to a group that was "dieting"...hmmmm like to see said study.

there's everything in the study mate.... i remember that prots were quite low....

 

[jaxino]

I've seen this study, I'm more interested in the gained LBM and lost more far results in the other study, I want to know calories and diet composition of each group. I am very well aware you can take steroids and gain muscle doing nothing. Gaining muscle and losing fat in contrast to a group that was "dieting"...hmmmm like to see said study.

From the study:

Two weeks before day 1, the men were instructed to begin following a standardized daily diet containing 36 kcal per kilogram of body weight, 1.5 g of protein per kilogram, and 100 percent of the recommended daily allowance of vitamins, minerals, and trace elements. Compliance with the diet was verified every four weeks by three-day records of food consumption. The dietary intake was adjusted every two weeks on the basis of changes in body weight.

 

[marssel]

Exactly! Eat big and clean with minimal gear. I will say if you’re going completely natural for two months after the show, like many intelligent top pros do, you will gain some fat and lose muscle, but it’ll benefit you in the long run, and once you go back on gear results will be accelerated. With a little AAS and HGH you’ll grow and stay lean during the rebound.

I agree with Luki here that less works, although I think you need to be up above 10% to really grow, though this is genetic related as well. Bc I have off season where I grow and I tend to grow into shows as well but they are different muscles from different styles of training prep has a lot of cardio and posing and that look is different than a lot of eating and compound heavy training 6 days or so a week. I’ve known quite a few top pros and not one ever came off right after competing, taper down over months and maybe off maybe not but only a few come off to mind would be Levrone and Rhoden but Shawn stopped that after a few years and that’s when he won his O. I think many of us think we grow better leaner bc of what we see in the mirror when we are lean we look bigger and thus feel bigger. That in turn has an intensifying effect on training for most so in a mental way yes but just physically you need caloric excess and some BF to grow and for injury prevention. It’s very hard to train super intense with decent weight below 10% for most guys even top tier guys. What you won’t see is guys in off season stays in pics unless they are covered. Now yes there are a few freaks who defy this and this has changed over the last 20 with guys using more drugs and staying leaner while growing but I think it’s a bad thing, I love Nick Walkers physique but I worry he’s following Dallas. To add almost all guys have cheat days where they eat ridiculous amounts of trash so eating clean is good but the monsters out there eat a lot of shit too. I’m force feeding clean meals so on my chest day I just eat comfortably and that’s always worked the body gets it’s blast of excess and the mind gets some chill without having to force pizza down imo.

 

[Bio]

I agree with Luki here that less works, although I think you need to be up above 10% to really grow, though this is genetic related as well. Bc I have off season where I grow and I tend to grow into shows as well but they are different muscles from different styles of training prep has a lot of cardio and posing and that look is different than a lot of eating and compound heavy training 6 days or so a week. I’ve known quite a few top pros and not one ever came off right after competing, taper down over months and maybe off maybe not but only a few come off to mind would be Levrone and Rhoden but Shawn stopped that after a few years and that’s when he won his O. I think many of us think we grow better leaner bc of what we see in the mirror when we are lean we look bigger and thus feel bigger. That in turn has an intensifying effect on training for most so in a mental way yes but just physically you need caloric excess and some BF to grow and for injury prevention. It’s very hard to train super intense with decent weight below 10% for most guys even top tier guys. What you won’t see is guys in off season stays in pics unless they are covered. Now yes there are a few freaks who defy this and this has changed over the last 20 with guys using more drugs and staying leaner while growing but I think it’s a bad thing, I love Nick Walkers physique but I worry he’s following Dallas. To add almost all guys have cheat days where they eat ridiculous amounts of trash so eating clean is good but the monsters out there eat a lot of shit too. I’m force feeding clean meals so on my chest day I just eat comfortably and that’s always worked the body gets it’s blast of excess and the mind gets some chill without having to force pizza down imo.

Not to get off track but Dallas obviously had a genetic issues with heart disease to have so many clogged arteries at such a young age despite his drug usage. No one has grown faster and bigger than Big Ramy!

 

[johnjuanb1]

I agree with Luki here that less works, although I think you need to be up above 10% to really grow, though this is genetic related as well. Bc I have off season where I grow and I tend to grow into shows as well but they are different muscles from different styles of training prep has a lot of cardio and posing and that look is different than a lot of eating and compound heavy training 6 days or so a week. I’ve known quite a few top pros and not one ever came off right after competing, taper down over months and maybe off maybe not but only a few come off to mind would be Levrone and Rhoden but Shawn stopped that after a few years and that’s when he won his O. I think many of us think we grow better leaner bc of what we see in the mirror when we are lean we look bigger and thus feel bigger. That in turn has an intensifying effect on training for most so in a mental way yes but just physically you need caloric excess and some BF to grow and for injury prevention. It’s very hard to train super intense with decent weight below 10% for most guys even top tier guys. What you won’t see is guys in off season stays in pics unless they are covered. Now yes there are a few freaks who defy this and this has changed over the last 20 with guys using more drugs and staying leaner while growing but I think it’s a bad thing, I love Nick Walkers physique but I worry he’s following Dallas. To add almost all guys have cheat days where they eat ridiculous amounts of trash so eating clean is good but the monsters out there eat a lot of shit too. I’m force feeding clean meals so on my chest day I just eat comfortably and that’s always worked the body gets it’s blast of excess and the mind gets some chill without having to force pizza down imo.

…

 

[jaxino]

Here’s a small study done with a group of 50 that shows the results mentioned where they gained more muscle area on 600mg of test with no exercise than the control group who did exercise with a placebo.

The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men

www.nejm.org

 

[specter]

Not to get off track but Dallas obviously had a genetic issues with heart disease to have so many clogged arteries at such a young age despite his drug usage. No one has grown faster and bigger than Big Ramy!

i know of a young canadian who died at age 26 from clogged arteries, he also used very little gear and stayed healthy on his blood tests, but his genetics where against him.

 

[marssel]

i know of a young canadian who died at age 26 from clogged arteries, he also used very little gear and stayed healthy on his blood tests, but his genetics where against him.

You say also but Dallas was on an ocean of shit and yes I know this first hand however I do agree about bad genetics to your final point Markus Ruhls progress makes Ramys look like a guppy next to a Great White, Art Atwood too, Ramy is big as fuck but he’s no historic monster he’s not even clear of Ronnie, Jay, or Phil’s shadow all 3 were dramatically bigger than Ramy.

 

[Swifto]

You say also but Dallas was on an ocean of shit and yes I know this first hand however I do agree about bad genetics to your final point Markus Ruhls progress makes Ramys look like a guppy next to a Great White, Art Atwood too, Ramy is big as fuck but he’s no historic monster he’s not even clear of Ronnie, Jay, or Phil’s shadow all 3 were dramatically bigger than Ramy.

Their reported body and stage weights would disagree with you.

 

[marssel]

See

Their reported body and stage weights would disagree with you.

Seeing them in person doesn’t and yea Phil weighed less he’s shorter by far but muscularity wise dramatically offer especially Ronnie and again “ their” reported stage weights which I believe like I believe Biden is a great President

 

[shaneNJ]

In my experience this depends on age, how you’re body reacts to certain drugs, and of course the diet. I’ve been using AAS over 30 years and at 51 for me it’s 800mg primo and 500mgs test along with gh. I used to go higher with the test and run tren as well and was able to stay fairly lean but now my body just can’t take it. My body also can’t tolerate high carbs like it used to do who knows. If I had it to do over I’d run 1000mgs test avd 1000mg primo per week with Anavar and gh and stay away from the tren. Assuming you get your hands on legit primo and gh- that’s gonna give you solid size with little bf.

 

[iron lifter]

the leaner you are means less conversion to estrogen and better insulin sensitivity.

but lets say one is not that lean say 12-14 percent and has sub par insulin sensitivity instead of him losing some body fat and re-graining insulin sensitivity what if they use arimidex and metformin and just start a cycle where they are at? won't that yield similar gains?