Mentzer - only trained 2h/wk?

[Golden]

I know we’re all chasing results but for me, I actually really enjoy training. 2hrs per week wouldn’t cut it for me. I enjoy my time in the gym. It’s always been a get away.

 

[lookslikesausage]

Yeah it's kind of ridiculous to argue otherwise, way too many success stories using volume training, heard the Germans were big fans of it too

Every successful strength athlete in elite strength sports has used volume training, especially in the sport of Olympic Weightlifting. Germans, Russians, China...all of them. The only difference in those countries training regimens are the use of auxiliary movements. China and Russia traditionally do a lot of auxiliary movements and variations while the Bulgarians (back in the day at least) who were one of the most successful team in the world under Ivan Abadjiev despite being a small country and having little money for their athletes, did few. They did the two competition lifts and either Front Squats or Back Squats. So yes, to your point, in the strength world, everyone who's ever had any success has used a volume-based approach (well, volume coupled with intensity, but as you know, the more volume, the less intensity/percentage of one rep max).

 

[Hatchet]

I know we’re all chasing results but for me, I actually really enjoy training. 2hrs per week wouldn’t cut it for me. I enjoy my time in the gym. It’s always been a get away.

Same, I enjoy being in the gym (either commercial or my home gym) greatly. I have for over 4-decades.
I still to this day get antsy on off-days, and cannot wait to get back in there. I don't stay forever (1.5 hrs) but 30-mins wouldnt cut it (for me).

I know plenty of "HIT only" guys over the years, and their physiques are very average.

 

[A50#]

I know we’re all chasing results but for me, I actually really enjoy training. 2hrs per week wouldn’t cut it for me. I enjoy my time in the gym. It’s always been a get away.

I actually do too. Definitely a get a way for me as well. I always look forward to my training sessions. When I was doing HIT style training I was working 12-16 hour days 6-7 days week along with taking care of my other family responsibilities and obligations. I didn't have the time or recovery ability for volume training.

 

[Hatchet]

I actually do too. Definitely a get a way for me as well. I always look forward to my training sessions. When I was doing HIT style training I was working 12-16 hour days 6-7 days week along with taking care of my other family responsibilities and obligations. I didn't have the time or recovery ability for volume training.

Makes total sense. When time constraints are a problem, HIT training is probably a very good choice.
When Im older, it may make sense to try to hold onto muscle w/out killing ones self. 1 Body-part a day, just work it very hard for 1/2 an hour and get out of there.

 

[Lildawg]

Interesting!

 

[TrippplePPP]

This is a fun thread to read. When I was at my pinnacle I would be in and out of the gym very quickly and I still and this way but understand I was more efficient years ago. Warm up on cardio equipment then do a few warm up sets on first exercise and then pyramid up weight with decreased reps. I would then progress to deleting the middle sets from the pyramids and use the extra energy for my last set that was all out with heaviest weight with drop sets and forced reps. I believed the last set was the set that would ring the bell for growth and that is all that was important while the previous sets were used to prepare for this set. It worked well for me and I was in and out of the gym and could spend more time doing other things.

I find the 2 hours per week not really true unless he did not count warm-up sets and cardio warm-up. I agree with the others that no one really states the truth especially years ago.

 

[qbkilla]

I think being efficient in the gym is the key. Go in execute what you need to be it high intensity, high volume, then leave. Social interaction in the gym is nothing but wasted time and wasted energy between sets. Most people at my gym get the vibe I'm not there to greet or chat (a simple hello opens the door to more interaction) but there are some people for whatever reason feel the need to try and talk to everyone, these are the ones I can't stand.

 

[KillerStack]

IMO opinion Mike built most of his physique in his teens. After that he didn't gain crazy amounts of tissue. Probably could've achieved the same with 1 hour a week.

 

[headtrainer]

what I appreciated from his methodology was when he asks if you do 2 workouts one lasting 1.5 hours and the other lasting 30 minutes and they deliver the same results which workout is more efficient? I have always done the shorter workout because it yielded me the same results as the marathon session. bodybuilders tend to think more is better in all facets.i did honest assessment on myself and arrived at this . what works for one obviously does not work for all.i think mentally when you know you have multiple sets left you hold back a bit. with the shorter workout I think you can push yourself to failure and be done with it. the key here is does it deliver the same results? if for you it does the answer is clear..if you get much better results with longer sessions thats your clear winner. plenty wont try a true assessment because more is always better ! this argument has been around a long time.

I’ve learned holding back just a little is a good thing. It allows me to avoid injury and do more volume/muscle stimulation. I’ve had to retrain my brain to do this because I used to think you had to take each work set to absolute muscle failure to get maximal results. I’ve learned that’s not true.

 

[headtrainer]

I think being efficient in the gym is the key. Go in execute what you need to be it high intensity, high volume, then leave. Social interaction in the gym is nothing but wasted time and wasted energy between sets. Most people at my gym get the vibe I'm not there to greet or chat (a simple hello opens the door to more interaction) but there are some people for whatever reason feel the need to try and talk to everyone, these are the ones I can't stand.

As history this is intetlresring stuff but don't waste your brain power on it. Jones was out to sell Nautilus machines. He did a lot for American fitness in bringing resistance training to the masses (as well as being a major contributor to the death of Olympic lifting in this country - but that's the fault of many not just him).

At the end of the day his logic, experiments and conclusions were engineered to sell machines. His logic and theory was based on a completely false understanding of exercise phyis and science. Good logic based on completely wrong foundational science. Basically single factor theory (Jones understanding) is limited in explanatory power beyond beginners and totally/completely supplanted by dual factor theory or fitness/fatigue. Most of Jones stuff used dual factor (deloading, recovery from time accumulated stimulus) in a single factor paradigm (less stress/stimulus is better, progress is made workout to workout) to lend credibility to his machine circuits and sell them.

FALSE - "concrentic failure is the growth/hypertrophy light switch" .

TOTALLY FALSE. NOTHING SPECIAL OR DIFFERENT HAPPENS AT CONCENTRIC FAILURE. MECHANICAL WORK/VOLUME AT SUFFICIENT INTENSITIES (%1RM) THROUGH SUFFICIENT RANGE OF MOTION (REQUIRED FOR WORK DEFINITION) IS STIMULUS.

Some quality take aways despite false premise so don't toss baby with bathwater:
-progressive loading is key to driving long term progress
-rest and allowing for adaptation/recovery is important
-there are limits, don't overdo it



He also designed some fabulous machines. That damn pullover, in my and many opinions, has never been equaled let alone surpassed. Wish I had room for one.

My 2 cents anyway but as I've said I see very little in bodybuilding that indicates optimal training is any kind of requirement for success. Strength and performance criteria sports...important but still lots of ways to skin a cat.

The pullover machine is a great lat width builder. But Authur Jones was just a business man trying to make money. His training concepts didn’t work well. I know because me and some of my friends tried it.

 

[alfresco]

Regardless if he was right or wrong, I always was entertained by Mike Mentzer. I probably read everything he ever wrote and seen just about every seminar and training video out there. I know for years when my training time was very limited using a HIT style of training produced gains for me. This thread here made me ask myself if the 2 hrs in the gym I'm doing now is producing any better gains that I made with a much more abbreviated routine

Mike has never had an original thought in his life.

 

[A50#]

Mike has never had an original thought in his life.

Did u know Mike personally?

 

[headtrainer]

dorian actually just made a post right now on IG about he doesn't believe in the 10-15 sets per body part, only 1 -2 working sets. and he posted pic with mentzer and attributed to him as being one of his biggest teachers to his olympia success

You can’t build a physique like Dorian’s doing only 1 set per week for each body part. Dorian is trying to set himself apart from the pack ( make a name for himself) as a marketing ploy. Lee Priest said Dorian trained with moderate-high volume just like the rest of the pro bodybuilders. I believe Lee told the truth.

 

[Wonton]

People need to understand don't believe everything you read or hear

 

[headtrainer]

supposedly Tom Platz would regularly train legs so intensely with high volume that he would have to take weeks off from training before he felt recovered enough to do it all again, so who knows? What a fascinating endeavor to be a part of

Actually he started training legs just once every 2 weeks in order to just maintain them so he could try and get his upper body to catch up. This also allowed for more energy to train upper body with. It had nothing to do with his legs not recovering after giving them a week of rest.

 

[qbkilla]

Actually he started training legs just once every 2 weeks in order to just maintain them so he could try and get his upper body to catch up. This also allowed for more energy to train upper body with. It had nothing to do with his legs not recovering after giving them a week of rest.

Is this a strategy that works? Say someone is dead set on arms, lower volume for chest and legs as an example, and then add it in for arms.

Sure it will save time of someone only has so much time to spend in the gym, but will the body be able to recover better for increased arm volume with not needing to recover other parts?

 

[headtrainer]

Is this a strategy that works? Say someone is dead set on arms, lower volume for chest and legs as an example, and then add it in for arms.

Sure it will save time of someone only has so much time to spend in the gym, but will the body be able to recover better for increased arm volume with not needing to recover other parts?

Yes, given the tricep and bicep tendons can recover. But keep in mind you work triceps with all chest pressing movements, so you’d want to keep them in the program. Same goes for back and biceps—back work does stimulate bicep growth to a noticeable degree.

 

[strummer]

I believe Aaron baker used HIT training also. It still took some guts for mentzer to switch training programs as he was elite bodybuilder at that point. Most wouldn’t deviate from what got them to that stage . even if he did build his size with more volume if he was walking out of the gym after half hour and other competitors were there 2 hours who is more efficient? I’m not talking about liking training but the efficiency aspect

 

[frankwhite]

Actually he started training legs just once every 2 weeks in order to just maintain them so he could try and get his upper body to catch up. This also allowed for more energy to train upper body with. It had nothing to do with his legs not recovering after giving them a week of rest.

You must've read or watched a different interview bro, I'm not making this stuff up

The guy wouldn't even use stairs in everyday life the day he was to train quads, c'mon now