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Bigger the testosterone dose the bigger you get?

at most I went with the 750mg e2d test which is almost 2,7g I controlled e2 but still you get some subcutaneous water from such a high dose and I think it's not a matter of e2 anymore but a huge retention of minerals by the body
I’m noticing the same thing. I just dropped EQ because my RBC was running wild, I just don’t have the genetics for it. I’m now on Test/Tren only and throwing more Letro helped a little bit but I’m far less vascular now with noticeable water under the skin. What I did notice is that my strength has shot through the roof, I’m making strength gains like never before.
 
At which point did you see diminishing returns with hgh and testosterone?
I've had testosterone up to 3 grams and I didn't get more from that than I got from 2.5. I might try pushing it to 4-5 in the second half of this year.

I’ve only ever used slin pre and post workout. Do you use it for all meals?
On training days I do because all my meals have around 150 grams of carbs or more. On off days I typically don't use insulin, just metformin.
 
What's holding me back is food, at 41 my hunger tanked so much that it's not really possible to push growth as i would like to.
I can eat 4500 cals Daily but it's not enough to grow.

It's interesting because I had same experience as yours with drugs....
1250 Sust ew
600 TrenE ew
150 Anadrol Ed

was the absolute max i pushed these 3 drugs.
EQ/Primo never gave me any issues at any dose.
I've always been interested in comments like this. What IS 4500 enough for? Enough to cut? An absolute calorie maintenance. What do you think personally?
 
I've always been interested in comments like this. What IS 4500 enough for? Enough to cut? An absolute calorie maintenance. What do you think personally?
Not trying to answer for Jax because I see people say this a LOT. Nobody is going anywhere on 4000 cals a day in this sport. You can look good with a lifeguard build. Lean and muscular but not the size that many are (or were) chasing after. I think more like 8000 cals or more, 4g’s gear or more, 20-30ius GH/day, slin, met, and berb as required (glucose clearing agents).

And then, not just have the genetics, strength, and MENTAL FORTITUDE to handle the training and gear but also the genetics to lose minimal size during prep. And then once prepped, have a look good (symmetry, proportions, etc). A lot of stars have to align there.

It really is an amazing feat and I have nothing but respect for those guys. Check the ‘Pic You Took Today’ thread. I’m amazed by all those dudes. I see a lot of hating on BBers here. I’m a prick, I get it, but I have a ton of respect for all yins and you won’t see me hating on BBers.
 
Exactly. You can take grams of all kinds of different gear and you won’t grow as much as you’d like if you’re not eating enough. I didn’t get to 250lbs w/abs until I started eating a lot. I use to take a lot of shit and eat like a bird and thought I was going to grow. Nope it didn’t happen until I started eating alot along with taking enough gear.
Agreed. My problem is that I sometimes have a hard time trying to shovel in the calories. I know I need to eat but it's definitely not as easy as some people think.
 
Agreed but can also get worse as you age.
LOTS of guys reach 40+ years of age and the sides of things we used to tolerate (deca, tren) become too much and not worth it.
I don’t know anyone who hasn’t had this happen and all of us thought that it wouldn’t happen “to me”
 
I don’t know anyone who hasn’t had this happen and all of us thought that it wouldn’t happen “to me”
I'm 38 turning 39 next month and all I hear is guys over 40 saying once they hit 40...damn 40 must be the magic number of decline lol
 
What you just listed was my highest dosed cycle ever, almost exactly. The problem back then was that my diet was crap. And I was strength training only. I listened to the idiots saying a calorie is calorie is a calorie which is total bullshit. Phil (may he rest in peace) was always telling me to eat when hungry. If I did that, I’d be a 300lb+ fat guy. *Not* eating is my struggle. I love food.

The ‘calorie is a calorie’ + ‘eat when hungry’ philosophy is perfect for people who want to eat crap whenever they please. Then they take a shit ton of sauce thinking it will make up for it. Nobody gets anywhere with that loose of a program. Maybe a one-in-a-million genetic freak might.
I guess you did not truly understand what Phil Hernon was saying when he said "EAT WHEN HUNGRY"
 
I'm 38 turning 39 next month and all I hear is guys over 40 saying once they hit 40...damn 40 must be the magic number of decline lol
Well imo it’s after 40 I’m still pretty much me say 90% but drugs have more noticeable sides. Training is as good as ever but sleep and recovery require more attention and for me it was 43 not 40. That said yea 40 seems to be a magic number and not just in our sphere, culturally I’d say 40 is the most recognized birthday and the whole thing is celebrated with joke funerals and the over the hill mantra so yea there is something to let’s say “your 40s” not being a smart ass but you’ll see bro whether it’s 40 or 45 things catch up
 
I guess you did not truly understand what Phil Hernon was saying when he said "EAT WHEN HUNGRY"
We talked about it a lot. Yeah, I’m pretty sure I did. But then again I learned much of what I know today because of Phil and John and the now scarce old promuscle crew.
 
I guess you did not truly understand what Phil Hernon was saying when he said "EAT WHEN HUNGRY"
Can I ask what the correct understanding of that is? Is it, to not force feed? If you’re not hungry, figure out why your’re not hungry and fix it?

I don’t have this issue but am curious.
 
Not trying to answer for Jax because I see people say this a LOT. Nobody is going anywhere on 4000 cals a day in this sport. You can look good with a lifeguard build. Lean and muscular but not the size that many are (or were) chasing after. I think more like 8000 cals or more, 4g’s gear or more, 20-30ius GH/day, slin, met, and berb as required (glucose clearing agents).

And then, not just have the genetics, strength, and MENTAL FORTITUDE to handle the training and gear but also the genetics to lose minimal size during prep. And then once prepped, have a look good (symmetry, proportions, etc). A lot of stars have to align there.

It really is an amazing feat and I have nothing but respect for those guys. Check the ‘Pic You Took Today’ thread. I’m amazed by all those dudes. I see a lot of hating on BBers here. I’m a prick, I get it, but I have a ton of respect for all yins and you won’t see me hating on BBers.
That's exactly my issue, on 4,5k i can't go anywhere on this sport.
Unfortunately I started too late (33y old) and genetics it is what it is.

Maybe i should just drop the Tren and try to push more test and EQ to see if i can eat more, but i doubt that, Tren neve goes over 300-400 when trying to grow.


Recovery at 41 is more crucial.
Maybe with a Justin Harris carb cycling diet + higher dose of mild aas i can have better gains.... Uhmmmm will give a try...
 
Agreed. My problem is that I sometimes have a hard time trying to shovel in the calories. I know I need to eat but it's definitely not as easy as some people think.
brother im with you, i have been eating like 1.5k to 2k if im lucky calories ED for the last 7-8 years MAX, i can get ripped and shape but filling out is hard, i haven't been able to break like 205-210 lbs. In my 20s it was easy to get up to 230 while bulking. I ate a grip of junk food back then and good food also. Now i do not have appetite. im force feeding spaghetti rn. amino acids have been a big help, protein shakes, most of my intake is all liquid. liquid egg whites , insulin....small amounts of gear
 
That's exactly my issue, on 4,5k i can't go anywhere on this sport.
Unfortunately I started too late (33y old) and genetics it is what it is.

Maybe i should just drop the Tren and try to push more test and EQ to see if i can eat more, but i doubt that, Tren neve goes over 300-400 when trying to grow.


Recovery at 41 is more crucial.
Maybe with a Justin Harris carb cycling diet + higher dose of mild aas i can have better gains.... Uhmmmm will give a try...
4500kcal you don't gain weight and your bf doesn't change either?

how much cardio do you do? Stimulants, thyroid? Training volume?

Perhaps you are in a phase of stress and you need more rest perhaps reducing to 4/5 weekly sessions
 
4500kcal you don't gain weight and your bf doesn't change either?

how much cardio do you do? Stimulants, thyroid? Training volume?

Perhaps you are in a phase of stress and you need more rest perhaps reducing to 4/5 weekly sessions
No BF ofc goes up but very marginally.

I stopped doing cardio and don't use any stims, just 100mcg T4 with my 10iu HGH.
I train brosplit 5 days a week low volume high intensity. Last blood panels were fine, had no signs of overtraining.

Usually when I am stressed hunger goes to zero. So maybe it's just a bit of that, will have more sex and less training 😂😂
 
No BF ofc goes up but very marginally.

I stopped doing cardio and don't use any stims, just 100mcg T4 with my 10iu HGH.
I train brosplit 5 days a week low volume high intensity. Last blood panels were fine, had no signs of overtraining.

Usually when I am stressed hunger goes to zero. So maybe it's just a bit of that, will have more sex and less training 😂😂
bro split to low volume may be just too little volume that is the reason for the lack of progress - everyone always thinks that they train hard and take it as the last possibility and the reason for the lack of progress and in 90% of cases it is exactly the opposite - people train too poorly
 
I think what the author of the post is asking is that all things being equal.. food is on target.. training is great.. recuperation is good.. all these variables in place then adding more gear to the variable will it make him bigger?? In most cases yes. No brainer.. with more gear he will have to add more food etc. But the question was not side effects etc. Just if adding more gear will result in more gains.. yes...
 
@LATS

Well said Lats.

More gear... Well we all get to play Dr. with our cycles and dose levels. But as Lats has said, Meal prep (Nutrition), Training and Recovery are the three most important tasks to making gains. Gains in muscle mass comes from gains in strength. Building for dence, lean muscle is a science and hard work. Smart lifting and nutrition as well as being fully recovered for the next body part session is top priority for these gains that most of us strength athletes are working towards.

Great topic!

Casey.
 

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