Hmm. Let me ask another way. If you were trying to put on muscle would you do anything differently after seeing this study or just stick with the whey and cereal lol?
Man, I'd not change a thing given this study, TBH.
Brandon and I really dig in on this study here on his podcast:
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/chasing-clarity/ep-93-dr-scott-stevenson-is-7We3NEdvU01/
The short n' the not so sweet of it is that if you take their findings at face value, you could simply get by (and grow) by taking in two 100g protein only (milk protein) meals per day and eating NOTHING else (as done in the study), which doesn't pass the reality test.
Among the issues:
--> They tested milk protein, which is 80% casein and we've known for a long time (>25yr) that casein is a "slow protein," d/t it's affect on GI motility.
--> Casein lumps in the gut, just like if you let it sit after blending even, and some of the digestion-derived peptides bind opioid receptors in the gut and slow digestion, just like when someone is prescribed opiate pain killers and gets constipation - not what you want if you're trying to eat to grow.
--> Also he finding that there was no "muscle full" effect (halting of protein synthesis even though EAA where available) just after a training bout isn't surprising (known from previous studies), but I was surprised that myofibrillar protein synthesis was elevated for so long, without any incoming energy in the form of carbs or fats.
--> I was also surprised (as was Donald Layman, Layne Norton's PhD advisor at U. of I, per an interview I heard) that there wasn't an increase in AA oxidation in the higher dosed case. (Again, at face value, we're taking continuous MPS with no increase in protein oxidation with just 100g protein every 12 hr.
--> But what they found wasn't even approaching maximal rate of protein synthesis seen in the literature , as they've seen higher (numerically) at least just in another study they published about the same time with a LOWER dose of protein (albeit averaged over a shorter time period).
In the study in questions: 100g milk protein --> MPS of about
0.047%/hr (read from graph) averaged over 12 hr.
In the study below: 45g Peroein (casein or way)measured over 7hr
0.056%/hr (CASEIN) vs
0.064%/hr for Whey (NS) averaged over 7hr
1.
Trommelen J, van Lieshout GAA, Pabla P, Nyakayiru J, Hendriks FK, Senden JM, Goessens JPB, van Kranenburg JMX, Gijsen AP, Verdijk LB, de Groot LCPGM, and van Loon LJC. Pre-sleep Protein Ingestion Increases Mitochondrial Protein Synthesis Rates During Overnight Recovery from Endurance Exercise: A Randomized Controlled Trial.
Sports Medicine 53: 1445-1455, 2023.
https://doi.org/10.1007/s40279-023-01822-3
-----> STILL, the 4-8hr myofibrillar protein synthesis values were
lower (mathematically) in this study than in the study cited just above (over 7hr), which does suggest a saturation effect (again, just comparing across studies and the other study where they used tested different conditions).
Also, with the exception of myostatin, they found no treatment x time interaction for any of the molecular makers of anabolism and they measured basically everything you could - seriously just about everything! (So, kudos there)
--->So, IMO, the idea, as noted in the title, that there is "no upper limit" to the anabolic response isn't supported here really at all and REALLY CAN'T BE unless they were to test up to LUDICROUS amounts of protein, like 300g, and were to demostrate that MPS continues to climb, which data FROM THEIR OWN LAB
doesn't suggest would happen, as I interpret it, given a only a 45g dose can protein at least equal if not higher rates of MPS)
------------
Also, a
reality test here is that if you were to try to use THIS KIND OF PROTEIN (milk) to obtain a continuous long standing amino acid influx (eating just twice per day), you'd probably end up with some GI issues, which would shut down gains. (I've seen this often with folks who try to eat too much greek yoghurt for instance. GI goes to hell in a hand basket. LOL).
ALSO, these were UNTRAINED subjects and we know from Damas et al that the acute MPS response (first workout in newbies) does NOT predict long terms gains (eventual muscle growth), likely b/c of the muscle damage damage that is incurred. (MPS measured a few weeks into the program is a much better predictor). So these MPS measurements aren't good predictors of muscle growth anyway, per the rest of the literature. (This also makes the lack of increase in protein oxidation all the more puzzling to me, but I leave it to someone who understands the limitation of these methodologies to decipher why this study seems to run against the grain of the rest of the literature.
The only thing they didn't directly measure - it's apparently very expensive and technically difficult is muscle protein breakdown, which would have been VERY informative, IMO. I'd rather have had than info. vs. the rest of the somewhat (IMO) superfluous measurements they made.
So, again, no, this study doesn't change my thoughts on protein intake a/o timing in the real world.
(BTW, too, I've read and heard a TON of reviews on this study and these points seem to be missed universally. I think it's crappy that this click-baitish title was actually not edited out, but this research group has a lot of clout - deservedly - so I guess that's the reason why.
Perhaps not the best analogy, but imagine if someone advertised a tire that would never, ever need replacing ("no upper limit in mileage") - that it would last forever - that was only tested up to half of a typically tire's lifespan (I'm comparing tire lifespan that with the 100g protein being perhaps 50% of a daily intake). Would you believe that that tire will last
forever it it hadn't really be run for at least 100,000 miles, much less 1,000,000 miles?... (Me neither... LOL)
-S
.gif "IP Gear")
slivovitz and rakija shots
