The anabolic response to protein ingestion during postexercise recovery has no upper limit in magnitude and duration in vivo in humans

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Are they still saying there is a minimum? I know the eaas I use from dymatize, about 10g total protein. But I assume 10g of eaa has a different effect on mps than 10g of protein from whey or chicken.

about 10g from EAA or 20-25 ish from a complete source like why or whole food

 

[275bills]

 

[Eguz22]

they address part of your question

“In the present study, milk protein was applied because it is the food item with the largest contribution to daily protein intake in the Western world.42 Because milk protein consists of 20% rapid digestible whey protein and 80% slowly digestible casein protein, it could be speculated that a more prolonged anabolic response to protein ingestion is unique to slowly digestible proteins. More rapidly digestible proteins may be disproportionally oxidized and, as such, may result in less amino acids being available for de novo protein synthesis.3 However, previous dose-response studies that administered rapidly digestible protein observed that postprandial amino acid oxidation is actually very limited.18,19 Moreover, we observed no differences in muscle protein synthesis rates following the ingestion of relatively large doses of whey and casein protein,43 implying that more rapidly digestible proteins do not result in disproportional (high) amino acid oxidation rates. Collectively, these data indicate that the metabolic responses observed in the present study are unlikely to be restricted to more slowly digestible proteins and are generalizable to other proteins despite different digestion kinetics.”

They experimented with people on different types of diets? For example, one person has 3 meals of 30 grams of protein before training, another person has 3 meals of 50 grams of protein, and a last person has not had any protein meal and trains on an empty stomach.

 

[NeveReveN]

I’m 58 and have been lifting and consuming “too much” protein for 40 years. Based on an accumulating lifetime of experience and that of many bodybuilders and powerlifters I’ve know well over the years, the rule of thumb has always been more protein equal more muscle. When I very early on upped my protein intake from less than 100 grams a day to 200 grams, I grew faster and got stronger. When I upped it to 300, I grew more and got even stronger. Back when bulking and cutting was the normal way, I would eat 100 grams of protein 5,6,7 times a day! Doing that, several times I got into the 270s (although I looked like 70s and 80s bulked up bodybuilders looked, zero veins zero definition, think how Lee Priest used to look).

So I KNEW that the whole 30 grams of protein per meal limit was false. We all did. And most of us knew that the only upper limit was only how much protein we could stand to get down our throats.

Way, way back in the early 80’s I read that French bodybuilder, Serge Nubret, would eat 10 pounds of horse meat per day. That’s what he claimed. And The Barbarians used to say they ate at least 100 grams of protein every meal. Etc.. So although this might me new information to scientists and nutritionists, it’s not new to us.

 

[Doitagain]

I’m 58 and have been lifting and consuming “too much” protein for 40 years. Based on an accumulating lifetime of experience and that of many bodybuilders and powerlifters I’ve know well over the years, the rule of thumb has always been more protein equal more muscle. When I very early on upped my protein intake from less than 100 grams a day to 200 grams, I grew faster and got stronger. When I upped it to 300, I grew more and got even stronger. Back when bulking and cutting was the normal way, I would eat 100 grams of protein 5,6,7 times a day! Doing that, several times I got into the 270s (although I looked like 70s and 80s bulked up bodybuilders looked, zero veins zero definition, think how Lee Priest used to look).

So I KNEW that the whole 30 grams of protein per meal limit was false. We all did. And most of us knew that the only upper limit was only how much protein we could stand to get down our throats.

Way, way back in the early 80’s I read that French bodybuilder, Serge Nubret, would eat 10 pounds of horse meat per day. That’s what he claimed. And The Barbarians used to say they ate at least 100 grams of protein every meal. Etc.. So although this might me new information to scientists and nutritionists, it’s not new to us.

Hey, Mike Matarazzo didn't look that bad during prep eating 6lbs of meat a day

 

[Shelby]

I wonder what impact the caloric difference makes (100g protein is a lot more calories than 25g protein).

 

[Doitagain]

Interesting how pretty much everyone has always taken as a gospel that anything above 40grams per sitting gets oxidized...

 

[Flex500]

In regards to my post workout meal, I saw more benefits in terms of strength and recovery from doubling my carb intake compared to protein intake. Baseline was 50 grams carbs and 50 grams protein.

This would completely makes sense, but is also why the measure is important. For all of us on this board, 90%+ (probably a low estimate) of what we are doing is driving sarcoplasmic hypertophy. In that case…the more carbs the better.

All of us here are chronic lifters going to the gym over and over and over just pulling the lever of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and most will see and feel a difference eating a lot of carbs around training.

I do think as we try or hope to drive myofibrillar hypertrophy, the more protein the better.

 

[Icarus]

Duh been saying this forever look at the animal kingdom you are hungry for days hunting then you eat 100lbs of meat at once you can't tell me you are only digesting 30 grams

 

[Icarus]

Link is full Text

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666379123005402

I did feel that this was warranted to be a stand-alone post simply because this is new, and a rather novel finding disproving the long-held belief that there are caps on maximizing MPS, and could generate some good discussion. Mods, please remove if you feel this is more appropriate as a comment elsewhere.

Abstract Summary

The belief that the anabolic response to feeding during postexercise recovery is transient and has an upper limit and that excess amino acids are being oxidized lacks scientific proof. Using a comprehensive quadruple isotope tracer feeding-infusion approach, we show that the ingestion of 100 g protein results in a greater and more prolonged (>12 h) anabolic response when compared to the ingestion of 25 g protein. We demonstrate a dose-response increase in dietary-protein-derived plasma amino acid availability and subsequent incorporation into muscle protein. Ingestion of a large bolus of protein further increases whole-body protein net balance, mixed-muscle, myofibrillar, muscle connective, and plasma protein synthesis rates. Protein ingestion has a negligible impact on whole-body protein breakdown rates or amino acid oxidation rates. These findings demonstrate that the magnitude and duration of the anabolic response to protein ingestion is not restricted and has previously been underestimated in vivo in humans.

No new, not novel, common sense how did anyone think you can't digest a 1lb steak? Lot's of people have been calling out that 30g nonsense for years.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Duh been saying this forever look at the animal kingdom you are hungry for days hunting then you eat 100lbs of meat at once you can't tell me you are only digesting 30 grams

No one ever claimed you can’t digest it . If that was the case then it wouldn’t even have caloric value. The discussion in this context is in regards to the anabolic response from a feeding of a certain amount.

 

[Cerberus777]

No new, not novel, common sense how did anyone think you can't digest a 1lb steak? Lot's of people have been calling out that 30g nonsense for years.

The idea was 30-40gr was used for repair and the rest converted into energy. But many people have realized that more is better. This study shows at least 100gr is used for repair after workout.

 

[The_Beast]

I think the older studies did not go high enough to show any additional benefit.

The main issue with the older studies is that the test period was never longer than 6h. This study looked at protein synthesis over a 12h period. It's possible that a higher protein intake did not lead to a higher rate of protein synthesis, but it stayed elevated for longer because the larger dose took longer to digest and absorb.

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

Dr. Scott talks about the Study in the recent Episode on Muscle Minds (starts around 10 mins in)

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Further elucidation on this by Lyle:

Basically the gist is this

1. There is indeed no reasonable upper limit for protein currently known.

2. The 0.8g/lb figure quoted by science bros only refers to muscle growth but NOT the myriad collection of adaptations as a result of hypertrophy training. The science has been wrong all along.

3. So the next time some science poindexter laughs at you for eating 400g of protein a day feel free to punch them in the face. They won't be eating enough protein to recover from this in a reasonable length of time giving you the chance to run away safely with your protein enhanced knee joints.

 

[IntenseVolume]

I think a lot of people also dont understand that mps isn’t proven to be correlated with muscle hypertrophy. There’s more to it than simply mps

 

[xpoc]

I fall into the 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight camp. And then adjust your carbs/fats depending on your goals of caloric surplus or deficit. Has there been any studies to prove or disprove this for purposes of hypertrophy and/or body recomp?

 

[Oldwhitedude]

I fall into the 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight camp. And then adjust your carbs/fats depending on your goals of caloric surplus or deficit. Has there been any studies to prove or disprove this for purposes of hypertrophy and/or body recomp?

It appears the studies have always showed this. It was the interpretation of those studies which was incorrect.

See my point 2.

 

[juggy38]

I fall into the 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight camp. And then adjust your carbs/fats depending on your goals of caloric surplus or deficit. Has there been any studies to prove or disprove this for purposes of hypertrophy and/or body recomp?

There have been studies showing that taking a control group with isocaloric diet….vs the test group, who ate in a caloric surplus, in which the caloric surplus came solely from adding excess protein.

The result was more lean body mass and little to no fat gain.

idk if people still believe this, but the old myth was “excess protein will be stored as fat”

It’s damn near impossible for your body to convert protein to fat. You would have to be in an excess of protein to first convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis, then you would have to be in excess of glucose which would then be converted to fat via hepatic lipogenesis.

Both of these steps are very metabolically energy demanding.


What actually happens is that the excess fat and carbs from over eating is stored.

It would take a study of a smaller individual like a 130lb woman eating 2,500-3,000 calories of whey, tuna, 99% fat free meat, to see where the threshold is of all those steps. So 650g protein would do the trick.

The gut could never survive that lol.

 

[juggy38]

Working with Shelby Starnes, bleu Taylor, Alex A (RIP), and @TheOtherOne55

all set protein around 1.5g per pound (I’m usually around 11-13% BF.

So that’s what I do, as obviously all of them combined have worked with thousands of humans. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.