Difference in protein sources and their effects

[warlock]

Raw cheese , natural made yogurts all superior to commercialized using pasteurized milk.

If you didn't have access to raw milk, would you drink organic grass-fed whole milk instead?

 

[rollerghost]

So you fasted… then went on dbol, MK, and who knows what else and shot up 40lbs in 4 weeks and you don’t think that’s pretty much all water, glycogen, nitrogen/mineral retention? I hate to be the bearer of bad news… but it is bro.

Well, I don't say that you are incorrect as you might be partly correct. I still think I have different opinion.

Firstly, because my situation is not normal situation like when you are properly fed and then start to bulk. So in my view this is different context and need to be looked differently. Ex. People in buperty can also gain such amounts of weights quickly and it is not excess water retention but lean tissue. You have to take into account a) the maximum potential the body holds for weight gain b) how far/near you are from that potential.

Because if you are far from that maximum potential - like in buperty or after starving - it is totally different situation for the body than a situation where one is more closer to his/her maximum potential. So the body starts to create resistances to anabolic pathways the more close you come to that maximum potential. And more far away you are from it the less anabolic resistance the body has. Even studies have noted that after prolonged fasting when feeding is introduced myostatin will go very low. And intestinal tissue will also grow a lot after fasting when IGF-1 start to rise again. Many tissues will gain weight in that kind ot situation so it is not only muscles that grow.

So if you are skinny, like teenagers, but you have higher potential (ex. Muscle memory when you have been heavier/have more satellite cells and so on) it is possible in my experience to gain more actual lean tissue in short time period but becomes allmost exponentially more difficult as you approach the maximum potential of your body.

I may also say that I've used steroids from age 19y old.. allmost a decade and was at max. 250lbs - and then it was surely water weight as I used Deca with Sustanon two years straight + dbols every few months and also gained fat. Now it is totally different situation. I am far from that weight which my muscles surely remember.

If it were excess water weight why it has not dropped off? It is over a week when I stopped dbol and anavar and have been this week eating PSMF and doing a lot of walking besides gym. I do not have moonface, not swelling in ankles, so it is really difficult for me to believe it is water weight. Sure there is water but not excess water. Excess water allready dropped during this week but weight is still 202lbs.

I argue it is a) muscle memory b) starvation which reduces anabolic resistances significantly for a some period of time as body is so far from its maximum potential and can allow more actual growth and will regenerate other organs besides muscles too which amounts to lean tissue.

 

[rollerghost]

So you fasted… then went on dbol, MK, and who knows what else and shot up 40lbs in 4 weeks and you don’t think that’s pretty much all water, glycogen, nitrogen/mineral retention? I hate to be the bearer of bad news… but it is bro.

Maybe I will need to do 3 days total water fast to settle this issue. So we can see which hypothesis is more correct. So if you are correct my weight should drop about 20lbs. If I am more correct it should drop only 5-10lbs or less.

 

[emeric delczeg]

How much raw milk do you drink daily?

1/2 gallon

 

[emeric delczeg]

If you didn't have access to raw milk, would you drink organic grass-fed whole milk instead?

Yes , I do drink raw milk every day.

 

[warlock]

Yes , I do drink raw milk every day.

That's awesome. Raw milk is super tasty and healthy. However, it's hard to get in my state. Lately, I've been getting the organic grass-fed whole milk at my regular grocery store. I think this is probably the healthiest type of milk after raw milk.

 

[emeric delczeg]

That's awesome. Raw milk is super tasty and healthy. However, it's hard to get in my state. Lately, I've been getting the organic grass-fed whole milk at my regular grocery store. I think this is probably the healthiest type of milk after raw milk.

Yes, it is, beside whole eggs and grass feed beef is one of the best to build muscle.

 

[Doitagain]

Yes , I do drink raw milk every day.

My colon collapsed just reading that.

 

[b-boy]

So you fasted… then went on dbol, MK, and who knows what else and shot up 40lbs in 4 weeks and you don’t think that’s pretty much all water, glycogen, nitrogen/mineral retention? I hate to be the bearer of bad news… but it is bro.

Please stop using COMMON SENSE, your scaring the village idiots.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Please stop using COMMON SENSE, your scaring the village idiots.

I can gain 6 labs in 2 day, if just eat and don`t take a shit for 2 days.

 

[Doitagain]

I can gain 6 labs in 2 day, if just eat and don`t take a shit for 2 days.

Constipation is the ultimate mass building wheapon.

 

[rollerghost]

I can gain 6 labs in 2 day, if just eat and don`t take a shit for 2 days.

Well, tell me then why my weight has not dropped more than 6-8lbs if it is like you are assuming water, food and other junk when I have not eaten solid food much in a week (mostly protein shakes), using telmisartan which also prevents water retention little bit, intermittent fasting + lot of coffee, tea and other diuretic compounds, low sodium and clenbuterol so excess water and stool has allready left the system but weight has not dropped under 200lbs this week.

Glycogen stores are also not full as I barely eat carbs and even last month I ate quite low carb (100-250g/d) as I did not want that excess water retention.

I know what is water retention and that kind of mass; I have used different steroids about 15y of my life.

 

[rollerghost]

b-boy, it is nice that you have good time laughing to me but could you also explain what I am missing here? Why are you laughing? What I am assuming wrong?

 

[emeric delczeg]

Well, tell me then why my weight has not dropped more than 6-8lbs if it is like you are assuming water, food and other junk when I have not eaten solid food much in a week (mostly protein shakes), using telmisartan which also prevents water retention little bit, intermittent fasting + lot of coffee, tea and other diuretic compounds, low sodium and clenbuterol so excess water and stool has allready left the system but weight has not dropped under 200lbs this week.

Glycogen stores are also not full as I barely eat carbs and even last month I ate quite low carb (100-250g/d) as I did not want that excess water retention.

I know what is water retention and that kind of mass; I have used different steroids about 15y of my life.

Do you have a photo before you started the 4 week weight gaining protocol and one photo after 4 weeks, so I can see how much fat you put one, or muscle.

 

[qbkilla]

Op I have been following but thread is hard to follow. Your using if, a defect, stims, and psmf to lose weight fast it looks like. But what is the purpose of wanting to use only shakes? Aren't you starving on those calories with only whey?

 

[rollerghost]

Do you have a photo before you started the 4 week weight gaining protocol and one photo after 4 weeks, so I can see how much fat you put one, or muscle.

Well, I did not took photos when I started but I was basically starving as I had been fasting 2 weeks with water and used clenbuterol and a walked a lot so calorie consumptiom was very high and few gym sessions also during that period. My weight dropped to somewhere ~165lbs and after 4 weeks bulk it went to 211lbs max but I stopped dbol and that bulk over week ago (allmost two weeks now from dbol, anavar and mk, sustanon goes on) and weight has dropped to 200-202lbs now when my main "food" has been whey shakes/ low carb and low calorie. I eat eggs though and something else (like chicken and meat) besides whey so it has not been totally without fat or carbs yet. But quite low carb and under calories anyway.

But I can put pics now what my condition is after this whey diet about week behind because I took pics today. So judge by them and tell if it is still in your opinion water what I have gained. I can change my opinion as I know you are more professional than I am considering these evaluations. It was just my opinion that I seemed to gain muscle a lot quickly after my fast but of course I can be wrong also.

 

[rollerghost]

Do you have a photo before you started the 4 week weight gaining protocol and one photo after 4 weeks, so I can see how much fat you put one, or muscle.

I estimate that my fat percentage went down during fasting to somewhere ~14% and now I estimate it is about the same or little less now, maybe 13%. I am aiming at 6-9%.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Next time take a photo before and after.

 

[rollerghost]

Op I have been following but thread is hard to follow. Your using if, a defect, stims, and psmf to lose weight fast it looks like. But what is the purpose of wanting to use only shakes? Aren't you starving on those calories with only whey?

Yes, I am not yet starving but I guess I will soon be when I will go only with whey for the rest of the month. Part reason was actually because I am so poor atm. Had so many bills this month that I have to save money and whey I don't need to buy and it is easy to use and seems to be very good for the muscles as people here have stated too so those are the main reasons.

But for now, I have been eating something else also like eggs and meat some days (eggs allmost every day 6-10 because I consider them so anabolic).

 

[rollerghost]

I am thinking you missed the point I was trying to make. My situation wasn't normal bulk. Whole last year I was depressed, in bed, and didn't eat much of anything. Maybe an average of 20-30g protein per day. Didn't exercise or do basically anything. So I lost a lot of muscle, got in bad shape physically and on top of that got little bit more fatty (but not over 20% bf).

And so my body was long time used to get along with malnutrition, and then when I got over my depression I started to train again and soon I started to doing fasts to get rid of excess fat before gaining muscles back.

So my point was, that in this kind of context it is in my opinion possible to gain actual lean tissue quite a lot in short period of time because of "muscle memory", and adaptations of body to mallnutrition/starvation and some kind of supercompensation after nutrition/and or medication (steroids) are reintroduced - especially if one is far from his/her maximum potential/and or has muscle memory from previous training years.

So I believe (from my experiences) body kind of supercompensates anabolic signalling when it has been dealing with low amounts of protein and calories for a long periods of time. Then if you suddenly give it 200-300g of protein per day + anabolic steroids you will gain a lot more than in normal situation when you have been well fed allready. That is how I see it has gone.

In my opinion, I gained more lean tissue during one month now with same amounts of steroids than I gained during 3-6 months when I was 21y old. Now I am 38y old and gained at least same amount of lean tissue that I gained with those same amounts of steroids in about 3-6 months when I was younger. And now I didn't gain fat basically at all. So this needs to be looked from a different perspective than usual bulking situations that doesn't start from starvation/malnutritional state.