Bizzare estrogen problems

Thebigone · Feb 9, 2011

Kaladryn said:
Your post actually said that 2nd time you tested high on e2 you were at the same dose, 12.5mg.

But regardless, 25mg isn't going to double the effect over 12.5mg, you might see 10-20% more effect but that's it. AIs only kill E2 in post menopausal women, they have a MUCH lower effect in men. They also have a much shorter halflife in men, aromasin is only a 9 hour halflife in men.

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males -- Mauras et al. 88 (12): 5951 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

A 50 e2 level is totally normal and nothing to worry about on 500mg of test.

where did you see aromasin has a 9hr half life? I thought it was 27-30hrs. Most take it eod. I wonder if its best to split up my adex and aromsain dose morning and night instead of all at once at night.

Kaladryn · Feb 10, 2011

Thebigone said:
where did you see aromasin has a 9hr half life? I thought it was 27-30hrs. Most take it eod. I wonder if its best to split up my adex and aromsain dose morning and night instead of all at once at night.

The terminal half-life in the present study (8.9 h) was considerably shorter than the published value of 27 h. The reason for this difference is not clear, but may be related to a true gender dependency possibly involving the volume of distribution (lower in males than females) and plasma or tissue protein binding (respectively, higher and lower in males). This finding may also be due to the lower sensitivity of the analytical methodology used in the previous studies.

Adex was also found to have a much shorter halflife in males, it follows that Letro would probably also have a shorter halflife...

Thebigone · Feb 10, 2011

wow that is crazy. Not nearly enough is know about estro in males. Shit so if my estro was in range but on the higher end, that bloodtest was taken around 14hrs after my aromasin, so who knows, what if the first 9hrs estro was low and then it tapered back up. You think best bet is to split anit-e's morning/night?

I added 25mg aromasin to my 1mg Adex a few weeks ago. Ive been taking them at night. no wonder why i have seen ZERO diff or felt zero diff. Probably b/c they are just both out of my system by the morning.

Thebigone · Feb 10, 2011

Kaladryn said:
Adex was also found to have a much shorter halflife in males, it follows that Letro would probably also have a shorter halflife...

You have the full article on this?

Elvia1023 · Feb 10, 2011

ManoftheWorld said:
Fuck ya, it will. Definitely effective, but I doubt I'll use again cause of this effect. Unless I have gyno from hell then i'd fire it up but sparingly..

Nothing that isn't already known but fuck yeah x2. I usually want it many times every day but 2.5mg letrozole has killed my libido. I don't even have a libido... it's disappeared. I hope to find it again very soon

Kaladryn · Feb 10, 2011

Thebigone said:
wow that is crazy. Not nearly enough is know about estro in males. Shit so if my estro was in range but on the higher end, that bloodtest was taken around 14hrs after my aromasin, so who knows, what if the first 9hrs estro was low and then it tapered back up. You think best bet is to split anit-e's morning/night?

I added 25mg aromasin to my 1mg Adex a few weeks ago. Ive been taking them at night. no wonder why i have seen ZERO diff or felt zero diff. Probably b/c they are just both out of my system by the morning.

Remember an AI is only inhibiting the conversion of test to e2. A single dose of Aromasin will suppress E2 for a lot longer than 9 hours. Once per day dosing is plenty. I just wouldn't do aromasin EOD.

IMO if you need more than one AI pill per day, be it 25mg aromasin, 2.5mg letro, or 1mg adex, you are using too much of an aromatizing compound... The exception would be for short periods precontest.

Thebigone · Feb 11, 2011

^^ Thanks. Labwork on 1mg adex ED kept estro in range on the high end. Only thing i was using that aromatized was a measly 500mg test. So i added 25mg aromasin about 3weeks ago. Getting labwork done again tomorrow to see if it made a diff. I look and feel the exact same so i dont think it did shit. we'll see.

Also, do you have the full article for that snippet you posted about the 9hr half life, or where did you find that? Thanks

Dentor · Feb 11, 2011

Good information on estro in this thread. I cant agree with the statements more. I have high estrogen as well and was worried about it at first. but my endo said not to worry because as long as the ratio between estro and testosterone is in check you should have no problems with side effects such as gyno. I still believe i hold a lot of water but at least its not as big as a deal as i think people make it out to be in terms of gyno.

Thebigone · Feb 12, 2011

I think there are quite a few other sides of high estro other than gyno and edema. Some nasty sides like cancer,etc... thats what worries me still about the whole "its ok for estro to be high if the ratio is high"

Thebigone · Feb 14, 2011

im just at a loss for words. As you all saw the first test i was at 49, that was with 25mg aromasin. So i switched to 1mg adex and was at 42. Still in the high range. Range is up to 42.7, so i decided to see what i'd be at if i used 1mg adex and 25mg aromasin and just got results back. Went from 42 to 41 LOL 1 freaking point from 25mg aromasin. This just makes no sense. A year ago at the same doses i was at only 25 and was just using 12.5mg aromasin. All same brands and everything. I guess i permanently raised my estro by staying on so long. So now what, just stick with having an estro range of 42 which is in the higher end with a measly 500mg/test being the only aromatizing compound. Or maybe bust out like a 2week 2.5mg letro dose to kill estro completely, then go back to adex. I wonder if that would work or if it would just creep back up again.

Kaladryn · Feb 14, 2011

Thebigone said:
Or maybe bust out like a 2week 2.5mg letro dose to kill estro completely, then go back to adex.

There seems to be some misinformation about how much the 3rd generation AI's reduce AI's in males. 2.5mg of letro will have the EXACT same effect as 25mg of Aromasin or 1mg of Arimidex. The only difference is, on the letro you will have no sex drive.

Here are my results on 1g of test on 20mg ED of Aromasin:
E2: 107.7pg/mL (normal range 7.6-42.6)

Here are my results a month later after switching to 2.5mg ED of Letro:
E2: 98.8pg/mL (normal range 7.6-42.6)

When you hear people talk about letro being stronger than adex or aromasin, they are taking their info from studies done on post-menopausal women, and the differences are VERY slight.

Once again, your E2 level is not high. It is very low and well controlled for 500mg of test. My E2 level is currently at 32 and I'm on 160mg/week test and 6mg ED aromasin, my doc is very happy with 32, and so am I. 20 might be "ideal" for TRT, but 30 is very close and gives me zero sides.

Thebigone · Feb 15, 2011

Ok so since my estro was around 25 when i was on a similar amount of test and only 12.5mg aromasin around a year ago, now with double the aromasin my estro is still nearly double what it used to be. You said this is normal since i stayed on 500mg test for over a year. So my ? is, is there a way to get it low again without lowering the test? Like maybe a large amount of antiE's like 3-4mg adex for a 2week period to kill estro, then go back to a normal estro dose and maybe estro will stay lower or will it just come right back up again. I just dont like how a tad over a year ago it was 1/2 what is now and i was using 1/2 the aromasin i am now.

Kaladryn · Feb 15, 2011

Thebigone said:
Ok so since my estro was around 25 when i was on a similar amount of test and only 12.5mg aromasin around a year ago, now with double the aromasin my estro is still nearly double what it used to be. You said this is normal since i stayed on 500mg test for over a year. So my ? is, is there a way to get it low again without lowering the test? Like maybe a large amount of antiE's like 3-4mg adex for a 2week period to kill estro, then go back to a normal estro dose and maybe estro will stay lower or will it just come right back up again. I just dont like how a tad over a year ago it was 1/2 what is now and i was using 1/2 the aromasin i am now.

500mg of test is a lot. 500mg of test year round is a shitload. Your body is trying hard to eliminate all that extra test, increased aromatase activity is the main way it does this. Compounding this problem, you are eliminating aromatase by taking aromasin, this causes more aromatase production.

My advice is don't stay on year round, cruise at physiological doses (100-150mg/week), and take a month or two off from the AI, perhaps use some Nolvadex for a month or two. It will be good for your lipids also...

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Thebigone · Feb 15, 2011

Kaladryn said:
500mg of test is a lot. 500mg of test year round is a shitload. Your body is trying hard to eliminate all that extra test, increased aromatase activity is the main way it does this. Compounding this problem, you are eliminating aromatase by taking aromasin, this causes more aromatase production.

My advice is don't stay on year round, cruise at physiological doses (100-150mg/week), and take a month or two off from the AI, perhaps use some Nolvadex for a month or two. It will be good for your lipids also...

You say aromatase activity is how the body wants to eliminate the test, yet aromasin/adex,etc.. will eliminate the aromatase, so how will that cause more aromatase production?

blackjack · Feb 15, 2011

great info, thank you very much

smc252 · Feb 15, 2011

Thebigone said:
You say aromatase activity is how the body wants to eliminate the test, yet aromasin/adex,etc.. will eliminate the aromatase, so how will that cause more aromatase production?

I believe he is refering to the rebound effect; after you stop taking the AI, your aromatase will be at an all-time high.

Kaladryn · Feb 15, 2011

Something no one has talked about (although I'm sure most people taking aromasin know) just occurred to me, aromasin has a 30% higher absorption rate when taken with a fatty meal, you gotta take it with fat for maximum effect...

Thebigone · Feb 16, 2011

smc252 said:
I believe he is refering to the rebound effect; after you stop taking the AI, your aromatase will be at an all-time high.

I thought only letro can do this.

Thebigone · Feb 16, 2011

Kaladryn said:
Something no one has talked about (although I'm sure most people taking aromasin know) just occurred to me, aromasin has a 30% higher absorption rate when taken with a fatty meal, you gotta take it with fat for maximum effect...

I remember reading that. I wonder if the same is true with adex. On the back of the pharm grade box it doesnt even say to take with or without food so i'd doubt it. My estro was at 49 with 25mg aromasin then at 1mg adex it went to 42. I was having maybe like 8-12g fat with the aromasin.