AAS and the heart

[gtj220]

I was training a client today, who happens to be an RN, and she commented about an episode on the t.v. show "House" a medical drama for those of you unfamiliar with the show. In this episode a female volley ball player was having heart problems and, of course, it was deterimned that the heart damage was due to her taking steroids. Well, I told her that was just tv and was just sensationalizing for drama. BUT, she said she learned in nursing school that steroids damage the heart(among other things i'm sure) and that they would not lie to her in nursing school. Well I wasn't going to argue the point because I'm at work and would be basically admitting to using but this just demonstrates the level of misinformation about AAS. And we all know how healthy some people in health industry are, for example her hospital has a designated smoking area but no fitness center. Just venting! It's just all so ironic with whats acceptable as opposed to killer juice.

 

[Tom]

Drama

No doubt tv dramatizes the issues. However aas can cuase cardiac problems in so far as they can have adverse affects on your lipid profile. They can drastically increase LDL and decrease HDL. If a person stays on aas for long periods without allowing thier lipids to return to normal they will almost certainly have cardiac issues down the road.

 

[makaveli25]

I was training a client today, who happens to be an RN, and she commented about an episode on the t.v. show "House" a medical drama for those of you unfamiliar with the show. In this episode a female volley ball player was having heart problems and, of course, it was deterimned that the heart damage was due to her taking steroids. Well, I told her that was just tv and was just sensationalizing for drama. BUT, she said she learned in nursing school that steroids damage the heart(among other things i'm sure) and that they would not lie to her in nursing school. Well I wasn't going to argue the point because I'm at work and would be basically admitting to using but this just demonstrates the level of misinformation about AAS. And we all know how healthy some people in health industry are, for example her hospital has a designated smoking area but no fitness center. Just venting! It's just all so ironic with whats acceptable as opposed to killer juice.

bro talking steroids for a long peroids of time can defintely cause serious heart problems.. if it can fuck up your lipids and blood pressure you dont think its gonna be bad for your heart

 

[Grunt76]

Some docs, let alone RN's have trouble making a difference between the catabolic corticosteroids and the anabolic sex hormone steroids...

 

[moj0]

I don't believe there are any studies that imply that AAS have a direct cardiac effect. I understand that prolonged high blood pressure and possibly other sides can lead to cardiac problems. It's actually open to debate whether or not lipid profiles are a concern (there is considerable evidence to suggest otherwise).

 

[Otis T Holbrook]

Heart issues

Here is one study that should be considered. The full text version lists some of the doses and they were LOW compared to some I've seen.

Shortcuts from BMJPG journals

BMJ 2007;334:1082 (26 May), doi:10.1136/bmj.39196.517755.AD
Use of Anabolic Steroids Alters Myocardial Function
Body builders who are long term users of anabolic androgenic steroids have subclinical impairment of myocardial function, with a strong dose dependent effect. Italian researchers investigated 45 top level competitive athletes who had trained intensively for 15-20 hours a week for more than five years. Twenty had used anabolic androgenic steroids for at least five years; the rest (plus 25 healthy, age matched sedentary controls) were non-users.

Standard Doppler echocardiography, colour Doppler imaging, and strain rate imaging disclosed that the users of anabolic androgenic steroids had lower early diastolic peak velocities and impaired systolic deformation indices of the left ventricular lateral wall muscle and the intraventricular septum, despite the subjects being asymptomatic. The number of weeks' use of steroids annually and the weekly dose were determinants of the impaired strain rate.

The implications for cardiac events are unknown, but other studies have suggested a fourfold rise in 12 year mortality in power lifters who use anabolic androgenic steroids, compared with controls.

References

Br J Sports Med 2007;41:149-155, doi: 10.1136/bjsm.2006.03017110.1136/bjsm.2006.030171
[Free full-text Br J Sports Med article pdf] [Medline® abstract]

 

[moj0]

That study is interesting, however the significance is questionable. First, the subjects who used AAS were "top level competitive athletes" but the control group was sedentary. What was the role of exercise in these findings? The second thing that strikes me as interesting is that the even though the group using AAS had sub clinical measurements they were asymtematic. And the "fourfold rise in 12 year mortality" statement seems to be conjecture given the information in the actual study. I appreciate any information that I can get regarding AAS use and the possible dangers but I also want to be careful not be misled. Studies are sometimes designed to produce an outcome that supports an agenda unrelated to actual facts. That said, all who choose to assume the risks associated with enhancement should be vigilant to monitor their health.

 

[Phidias]

If you really think steroids (in dosages such as those commonly used nowdays) do NOT affect your heart in a bad way, you're seriously fooling yourself, bro...

It's a thing to use but another one to blindly deny their negative impact on health

 

[Otis T Holbrook]

I don't know if the link will work for you or not, but it has the complete study and may be able to answer some of your concerns.




**broken link removed**

 

[parttimer]

In regards to the thickening of the heart it is documented that lifting can cause the thickening by itself. They have not been able to positively link the thickening to the AAS in atheletes. I can show you studies of Testosterone use in cardiomyopathy patient that show it actually improves heart function. This was of course at low doses, but still high enough to provide some of the benefits we look for. This months muscular development has an article about a test they can perform on steriod users to determine if they have an affect on the heart.

 

[moj0]

Phidias, I respect your opinion. I am keenly aware that even OTC supplements can pose a serious health risk if abused so I don't pretend to deny risk. I don't want to downplay the possible health problems but I think individuals should make informed decisions based on facts. Peer reviewed studies, blood work, regular checkups, cardiac consultation if necessary..these will yield the facts needed to make informed decisions. With all that is going on in our world today I don't want to operate based on hyperbole and hearsay. Abuse of many drugs (aspirin, acetaminophen etc) can be fatal the same goes for AAS but I don't think there is a need to demonize them the way that the press and many others do. I agree with the need to use reason and be safe.

Otis..thanks for the link. I had already read the study and it it does have some merit. I appreciate you posting it.

 

[Massive G]

If you really think steroids (in dosages such as those commonly used nowdays) do NOT affect your heart in a bad way, you're seriously fooling yourself, bro...

It's a thing to use but another one to blindly deny their negative impact on health

BUMP.

Look at all the health probems older aged bb'ers have had and some weren't "big" by todays standards but I can damn sure gurantee you it wasn't the red meat that got their CV's so messed up. Boyer Coe and Danny Padilla for two. Damn sure was the wrecked lipid levels that probably got them.

Today's bb'ers are extremely risky taking GH slin and AAS and other agents clen T3 ephedrine and other agents that effect the heart coupled by the growth of the ventircle caused by heavy training. Extreme cardiomyopathy.
Add in anti-estrogens and orals and anything else that effects lipdi levels.
compound that by high blood pressure and thickened blood from AAS use water retention and you can see most bulking androgen high dosers are walking cardiac pre failure machines waiting for an arrest.
I know several guys with heart attacks and in congestive heart failure before they were 40. The same stuff that kills cardiac systems in the normal pop kills bb'ers on at a faster rate.

Be sensible and do cardio routinely and keep your blood pressure down. Keep your hematocrit down. Keep your cholesterol in check. Don't bulk over 40-50 lbs over your comp weight.

 

[MT]

BUMP.

Look at all the health probems older aged bb'ers have had and some weren't "big" by todays standards but I can damn sure gurantee you it wasn't the red meat that got their CV's so messed up. Boyer Coe and Danny Padilla for two. Damn sure was the wrecked lipid levels that probably got them.

Today's bb'ers are extremely risky taking GH slin and AAS and other agents clen T3 ephedrine and other agents that effect the heart coupled by the growth of the ventircle caused by heavy training. Extreme cardiomyopathy.
Add in anti-estrogens and orals and anything else that effects lipdi levels.
compound that by high blood pressure and thickened blood from AAS use water retention and you can see most bulking androgen high dosers are walking cardiac pre failure machines waiting for an arrest.
I know several guys with heart attacks and in congestive heart failure before they were 40. The same stuff that kills cardiac systems in the normal pop kills bb'ers on at a faster rate.

Be sensible and do cardio routinely and keep your blood pressure down. Keep your hematocrit down. Keep your cholesterol in check. Don't bulk over 40-50 lbs over your comp weight.

I always appreciate your posts Massive G. You have to be one of the wisest and most informed members on the board.

To me it seems extremely obvious that steroids would have a negative impact on the heart when used at bodybuilding doses.....

The heart is a muscle.

It pumps blood around the body.

The size of the space inside the heart is a factor in determining the volume of blood that is pumped around the body.

When one takes steroids and grows in size, the increase in size leads to a requirement for more blood to be pumped round the body.

The heart has more receptors than anywhere else in the body.

Steroids are non-selective and cause all muscle tissue in the body to grow (including the heart).

As the heart (a muscle) grows, so the space inside the heart and thus its volume capacity decreases, yet the body requires more blood to be pumped around the body due to the increased size!

To me this spells one thing.... disaster!

Yeah yeah I know! Where are my medical studies to back it up?! To me it all seems too clear to even warrant looking at a study.
At the same time side effects are dose dependent as with anything.

 

[gtj220]

bro talking steroids for a long peroids of time can defintely cause serious heart problems.. if it can fuck up your lipids and blood pressure you dont think its gonna be bad for your heart

If you take the example given, a young athletic woman, taking aas for a length of time that a college athlete would have perhaps been exposed, I would say that for that example heart complications would be a long shot. Not downplaying the risks, just going by that example. But, I don't hear alot of guys on here complaining about heart issues. And I also made the comparison to smoking which is no big deal to the media, I'm just saying between the two health risks which do you choose? Responsible smoking?

 

[Gunsmith]

gtj220 ,whats up bro this is the "fat boy" that trains with "moj0" , yea I'm gonna have big butt on stage this year if it kills me.

Anyway to your question at hand.

I'm sure that in very high doese for prologed times that ASS will have a negitive effect on your heart , but hell I'd be willing to bet that taking over the counter diet drugs will have a worse effect in a shorter time frame.
When my wife was in school she was working for a cardiologist that worked out alot and was intersted in bodybuilding but was very worried about the effects of ASS. We met at a party and the conversation of training eventualy came around to juice and we talked about it a great deal and he expressed his concers about it , obviously he read the same bullshit that the media trieds to stuff down everybodies throat. AFter disscussing it with him several times and letting him know that I had done it he asked if I would take some blood test the next time i went on. So the next cycle I went in for the labs before I had taken anything then again at 4 weeks , 8 weeks and 12 weeks then again 4 weeks post cycle. He was amazed at what he found which was basicaly NOTHING , my good cholestorol was down 2 points the bad was up 3 point and my liver values were slightly elivated , in his words
" these differances were less than if their were just a diet change" everything was still well within the "normal" range. this was decient of 750mg/w Sustanon , 30mg/ed D-bol for the first 4 weeks and 30mg/ed Winstrol fro the last 8 weeks. My diet was pretty heafty including alot of red meat and a pretty sizable amout of carbs , basialy a bulking cycle. This Dr. now cycles on and off 3-4 times a year and has gained over 40lbs of muscle in the last 6yrs..

It all boils donw to moderation and making sure your not a dumbshit about it. If you take 800mg of Ibuprophen a day I guarntee you'll eat your gut out a hell of alot sooner than using gear will jack up your heart , and their are alot of folks out their that eat over the counter meds like candy thinking that it won't hurt you. Hell if you drink to much water it'll kill you !! So yea if you run 2000mg/wk test for 8 moths out of the year yea your probably gonn ahve some heart trouble. i know a guy (you do to) that has been on test in doeses of 250-750 mg/wk of test for probaby the last 10-15yrs ,hes over 60 now and still in great shape and has a very clean bill of health ,oh and his wife is an RN !!!

Anyway bro just remember that ignorance is bliss and some people just should have been drown at birth to spare socitey the trouble of having to try to educate them , so just contain the urge to stomop their brains out for being retarded , nod your head and agree and keep collecting the checks.

Peace Brotherman , JJ

 

[gtj220]

gtj220 ,whats up bro this is the "fat boy" that trains with "moj0" , yea I'm gonna have big butt on stage this year if it kills me.

Anyway to your question at hand.

I'm sure that in very high doese for prologed times that ASS will have a negitive effect on your heart , but hell I'd be willing to bet that taking over the counter diet drugs will have a worse effect in a shorter time frame.
When my wife was in school she was working for a cardiologist that worked out alot and was intersted in bodybuilding but was very worried about the effects of ASS. We met at a party and the conversation of training eventualy came around to juice and we talked about it a great deal and he expressed his concers about it , obviously he read the same bullshit that the media trieds to stuff down everybodies throat. AFter disscussing it with him several times and letting him know that I had done it he asked if I would take some blood test the next time i went on. So the next cycle I went in for the labs before I had taken anything then again at 4 weeks , 8 weeks and 12 weeks then again 4 weeks post cycle. He was amazed at what he found which was basicaly NOTHING , my good cholestorol was down 2 points the bad was up 3 point and my liver values were slightly elivated , in his words
" these differances were less than if their were just a diet change" everything was still well within the "normal" range. this was decient of 750mg/w Sustanon , 30mg/ed D-bol for the first 4 weeks and 30mg/ed Winstrol fro the last 8 weeks. My diet was pretty heafty including alot of red meat and a pretty sizable amout of carbs , basialy a bulking cycle. This Dr. now cycles on and off 3-4 times a year and has gained over 40lbs of muscle in the last 6yrs..

It all boils donw to moderation and making sure your not a dumbshit about it. If you take 800mg of Ibuprophen a day I guarntee you'll eat your gut out a hell of alot sooner than using gear will jack up your heart , and their are alot of folks out their that eat over the counter meds like candy thinking that it won't hurt you. Hell if you drink to much water it'll kill you !! So yea if you run 2000mg/wk test for 8 moths out of the year yea your probably gonn ahve some heart trouble. i know a guy (you do to) that has been on test in doeses of 250-750 mg/wk of test for probaby the last 10-15yrs ,hes over 60 now and still in great shape and has a very clean bill of health ,oh and his wife is an RN !!!

Anyway bro just remember that ignorance is bliss and some people just should have been drown at birth to spare socitey the trouble of having to try to educate them , so just contain the urge to stomop their brains out for being retarded , nod your head and agree and keep collecting the checks.

Peace Brotherman , JJ

Hey Bro, glad to hear you've decided to put all that muscle to use and throw your hat in the ring. Interesting info about your blood work, especially since your a 300 pounder! And thanks for all the good feedback from the rest of you. I guess what peeves me about the general population is that ANY use of AAS is abuse with a certainty of medical issues. But make no mistake, I've always been concerned about my long term health in regards to my usage.