adding insulin

[BigLittleJoe2]

Background: 52 years old, 6 feet 0 inches tall, 206 pounds. Training for 30 years. About 12% body fat (lost 40 pounds in last year). Routine is high volume, 6 days per week, cardio 1 day.

have been cruising for several years on the following with good results:
-200 mg test E per week
-200 mg masteron E per week
-1 iu HGH ED
-0.5 mg arimidex EOD

5 weeks into a cut that was going well at 3100 calories per day (went from 217 lbs to 203) I added 5 iu humulin R preworkout EOD. I looked great (noticeable increase in muscle fullness) for the first two weeks but then my fasting blood glucose has increased to 95-105 mg/dl in the third week and weight loss has stopped even though calories are the same. I also noticed some erectile dysfunction in the last week.

So I have decided to discontinued the insulin for now even though I loved the first two weeks. I will add berberine and continue the cut for another 4-8 weeks. After that I would like to try insulin again but I am not sure of the best way to avoid insulin resistance and fat gain. I would like to use insulin indefinitely (i.e., not cycle on and off) but apparently EOD is too frequent even at such low doses. Would using insulin once a week probably work better? Alternatively, I could do EOD for 2 weeks followed by 2-4 weeks off and the repeat. Any input is welcome.

 

[slesh]

40 pounds is a lot of weight to lose in a year. I would ask how you accomplished that because that could have effects on your insulin sensitivity. Can you post a pic?

Also dude Mast and Arimidex on just TRT?!?! Your E2 must be doodie. Surprised you don’t feel like crap.

And in terms of your BG - this is a hot topic now - I just went through it myself. I would do the reset like you planned. And I’m not an expert on the subject but to me running Slin EOD seems counterintuitive and problematic - I feel like you’re confusing the shit out of your pancreas. 2 weeks on and off seems to make more sense…

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

40 pounds is a lot of weight to lose in a year. I would ask how you accomplished that because that could have effects on your insulin sensitivity. Can you post a pic?

Also dude Mast and Arimidex on just TRT?!?! Your E2 must be doodie. Surprised you don’t feel like crap.

And in terms of your BG - this is a hot topic now - I just went through it myself. I would do the reset like you planned. And I’m not an expert on the subject but to me running Slin EOD seems counterintuitive and problematic - I feel like you’re confusing the shit out of your pancreas. 2 weeks on and off seems to make more sense…

Thanks for the response. I will try to get a current pic posted soon. I lost about 25 lbs in 3 months by dieting and switching to high volume. Then maintained body weight (actually increased muscle mass so lost some fat) for a few months before starting the current cut.

I have seen others run essentially the same "TRT" cycle I am and also seen other use insulin EOD. I heard EOD is better for insulin sensitivity and avoiding fat loss compared to ED.

I should have also mentioned in my background that I used to use larger quantities of gear (over a gram of test and 3-4 iu HG ED) 10-20 years ago before going on 100-200 mg test and masteron.

Okay, 1 vote for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off insulin. Thanks!

 

[slesh]

Thanks for the response. I will try to get a current pic posted soon. I lost about 25 lbs in 3 months by dieting and switching to high volume. Then maintained body weight (actually increased muscle mass so lost some fat) for a few months before starting the current cut.

I have seen others run essentially the same "TRT" cycle I am and also seen other use insulin EOD. I heard EOD is better for insulin sensitivity and avoiding fat loss compared to ED.

I should have also mentioned in my background that I used to use larger quantities of gear (over a gram of test and 3-4 iu HG ED) 10-20 years ago before going on 100-200 mg test and masteron.

Okay, 1 vote for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off insulin. Thanks!

I should have asked this to begin with - when was the last time you got full blood work done?

 

[danieltx]

40 pounds is a lot of weight to lose in a year. I would ask how you accomplished that because that could have effects on your insulin sensitivity. Can you post a pic?

Also dude Mast and Arimidex on just TRT?!?! Your E2 must be doodie. Surprised you don’t feel like crap.

And in terms of your BG - this is a hot topic now - I just went through it myself. I would do the reset like you planned. And I’m not an expert on the subject but to me running Slin EOD seems counterintuitive and problematic - I feel like you’re confusing the shit out of your pancreas. 2 weeks on and off seems to make more sense…

Yes, and it could very well be his estrogen causing the glucose issues.

 

[Hyperemia]

Yes, and it could very well be his estrogen causing the glucose issues.

What do you mean? Genuinely interested. Estrogen has an effect on glucose?

 

[danieltx]

What do you mean? Genuinely interested. Estrogen has an effect on glucose?

I won't try to go into details as I'm not one of the science minds here but estrogen promotes insulin sensitivity. If you search on Google you'll find a bunch of studies on it.

 

[Reno911]

cardio 1 day.

Whatever your plan is, 1 day of cardio will not be effective.

 

[Hyperemia]

I won't try to go into details as I'm not one of the science minds here but estrogen promotes insulin sensitivity. If you search on Google you'll find a bunch of studies on it.

No worries man, it’s just the first I’ve heard that. I don’t doubt it.

 

[Bio]

Background: 52 years old, 6 feet 0 inches tall, 206 pounds. Training for 30 years. About 12% body fat (lost 40 pounds in last year). Routine is high volume, 6 days per week, cardio 1 day.

have been cruising for several years on the following with good results:
-200 mg test E per week
-200 mg masteron E per week
-1 iu HGH ED
-0.5 mg arimidex EOD

5 weeks into a cut that was going well at 3100 calories per day (went from 217 lbs to 203) I added 5 iu humulin R preworkout EOD. I looked great (noticeable increase in muscle fullness) for the first two weeks but then my fasting blood glucose has increased to 95-105 mg/dl in the third week and weight loss has stopped even though calories are the same. I also noticed some erectile dysfunction in the last week.

So I have decided to discontinued the insulin for now even though I loved the first two weeks. I will add berberine and continue the cut for another 4-8 weeks. After that I would like to try insulin again but I am not sure of the best way to avoid insulin resistance and fat gain. I would like to use insulin indefinitely (i.e., not cycle on and off) but apparently EOD is too frequent even at such low doses. Would using insulin once a week probably work better? Alternatively, I could do EOD for 2 weeks followed by 2-4 weeks off and the repeat. Any input is welcome.

How did you come up with this cycle?

Like Slesh mentioned, blood work will tell you where you're at.

 

[slesh]

Whatever your plan is, 1 day of cardio will not be effective.

Yeah I missed this. Lol why only cardio 1 day a week?

 

[slesh]

No worries man, it’s just the first I’ve heard that. I don’t doubt it.

From one of the many articles that Dan referenced. I’m so retarded for crushing my E2 all those years…

“E2-deficiency and impairment of its cellular action lead to an abrupt reduction in metabolic rate, shift to increased central adiposity, dyslipidemia, and progression of metabolic syndrome (MetS). Together these changes increase the risk of nonalcoholic steatohepatitis, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease and its complications.”

“Recent investigations suggest that estrogen receptor-α elicits the metabolic effects of estrogen by genomic, nongenomic, and mitochondrial mechanisms that regulate insulin signaling, substrate oxidation, and energetics.”

 

[bbxtreme]

Background: 52 years old, 6 feet 0 inches tall, 206 pounds. Training for 30 years. About 12% body fat (lost 40 pounds in last year). Routine is high volume, 6 days per week, cardio 1 day.

have been cruising for several years on the following with good results:
-200 mg test E per week
-200 mg masteron E per week
-1 iu HGH ED
-0.5 mg arimidex EOD

5 weeks into a cut that was going well at 3100 calories per day (went from 217 lbs to 203) I added 5 iu humulin R preworkout EOD. I looked great (noticeable increase in muscle fullness) for the first two weeks but then my fasting blood glucose has increased to 95-105 mg/dl in the third week and weight loss has stopped even though calories are the same. I also noticed some erectile dysfunction in the last week.

So I have decided to discontinued the insulin for now even though I loved the first two weeks. I will add berberine and continue the cut for another 4-8 weeks. After that I would like to try insulin again but I am not sure of the best way to avoid insulin resistance and fat gain. I would like to use insulin indefinitely (i.e., not cycle on and off) but apparently EOD is too frequent even at such low doses. Would using insulin once a week probably work better? Alternatively, I could do EOD for 2 weeks followed by 2-4 weeks off and the repeat. Any input is welcome.

If you’re trying to cut and aren’t competing then I would put the money into more GH. Would give you far more benefits IMO.

You’re already in a caloric deficit and have lost a lot of weight (very impressive), but throwing insulin into the mix while cutting that hard is likely just slowly worked you into becoming insulin resistant.

Now don’t get me wrong, insulin is anticatabolic so many do use it pre-workout during a cut for prep. But they’re also usually on much higher dosages of anabolics and HGH than you are.

If you’re going to use it then I would cut it out for 4-8 weeks, keep using the berberine, ensure you’re getting fasted cardio in and work to reset insulin sensitivity as the body will adapt. Doing a PSMF diet a few days could help speed that up as well.

After that if you want to add it back in then I would do a protocol similar to what John Meadows use to suggest. 6IU pre workout for 6 weeks and then bump to 10iu for 4 more weeks. Then come off for another 4-8 weeks. You can adjust the units and amounts based on carb intake on your cut. The key is to just work your way up as the body will eventually adapt.

 

[b-boy]

Background: 52 years old, 6 feet 0 inches tall, 206 pounds. Training for 30 years. About 12% body fat (lost 40 pounds in last year). Routine is high volume, 6 days per week, cardio 1 day.

have been cruising for several years on the following with good results:
-200 mg test E per week
-200 mg masteron E per week
-1 iu HGH ED
-0.5 mg arimidex EOD

5 weeks into a cut that was going well at 3100 calories per day (went from 217 lbs to 203) I added 5 iu humulin R preworkout EOD. I looked great (noticeable increase in muscle fullness) for the first two weeks but then my fasting blood glucose has increased to 95-105 mg/dl in the third week and weight loss has stopped even though calories are the same. I also noticed some erectile dysfunction in the last week.

So I have decided to discontinued the insulin for now even though I loved the first two weeks. I will add berberine and continue the cut for another 4-8 weeks. After that I would like to try insulin again but I am not sure of the best way to avoid insulin resistance and fat gain. I would like to use insulin indefinitely (i.e., not cycle on and off) but apparently EOD is too frequent even at such low doses. Would using insulin once a week probably work better? Alternatively, I could do EOD for 2 weeks followed by 2-4 weeks off and the repeat. Any input is welcome.

Just to give you a little insight, my last show I did I was 2 weeks out, pretty lean (for me) ketogenic diet and my blood glucose was high 105-125 and my blood ketones were fucking sky high I believe this happens when you have very high cortisol levels (this will create high fasting glucose numbers)

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

Yeah I missed this. Lol why only cardio 1 day a week?

I should have said I do 1-2 day of higher intensity cardio (20 minutes on stair climber) in addition to walking the dogs a few days a week. I feel like I loose muscle if I do too much higher intensity cardio. I try to take the fat off with diet and just use the cardio for fitness purposes.

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

How did you come up with this cycle?

Like Slesh mentioned, blood work will tell you where you're at.

Not really a "cycle" but it is my cruise protocol that I came up with from trial and error about 12 years ago when I stopped doing large doses. Initially I dropped down to 100 mg test/week for a few years, but I got pretty small on that. I found 200 mg test e and 200 mg mast e help me keep decent muscle and my hormones were good. I have not had blood work for over a year but in the past my labs were pretty consistent over the years I have been on this protocol with total test at the high end of normal and free test above normal (due to the masteron I think). Estrogen might have been low. I will check this later and post my estrogen levels, but this was a while ago when I was fat. I do need to get current blood work.

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

From one of the many articles that Dan referenced. I’m so retarded for crushing my E2 all those years…

“E2-deficiency and impairment of its cellular action lead to an abrupt reduction in metabolic rate, shift to increased central adiposity, dyslipidemia, and progression of metabolic syndrome (MetS). Together these changes increase the risk of nonalcoholic steatohepatitis, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease and its complications.”

“Recent investigations suggest that estrogen receptor-α elicits the metabolic effects of estrogen by genomic, nongenomic, and mitochondrial mechanisms that regulate insulin signaling, substrate oxidation, and energetics.”

This is interesting. So to translate for the lay person, if I have drive my estrogen too low this could increase my risk for type II diabetes and all of the accompanying consequences (central adiposity, high fasting blood glucose, etc.)?

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

If you’re trying to cut and aren’t competing then I would put the money into more GH. Would give you far more benefits IMO.

You’re already in a caloric deficit and have lost a lot of weight (very impressive), but throwing insulin into the mix while cutting that hard is likely just slowly worked you into becoming insulin resistant.

Now don’t get me wrong, insulin is anticatabolic so many do use it pre-workout during a cut for prep. But they’re also usually on much higher dosages of anabolics and HGH than you are.

If you’re going to use it then I would cut it out for 4-8 weeks, keep using the berberine, ensure you’re getting fasted cardio in and work to reset insulin sensitivity as the body will adapt. Doing a PSMF diet a few days could help speed that up as well.

After that if you want to add it back in then I would do a protocol similar to what John Meadows use to suggest. 6IU pre workout for 6 weeks and then bump to 10iu for 4 more weeks. Then come off for another 4-8 weeks. You can adjust the units and amounts based on carb intake on your cut. The key is to just work your way up as the body will eventually adapt.

I really appreciate your feedback! I am not competing, just doing this for myself. I was thinking about increasing my HGH from 1 up to 2 iu per day, but I didn't want to go higher than that due to the risk of increasing insulin resistance even further.

I didn't realize using insulin while cutting increases insulin resistance more than using insulin while bulking (or isocaloric?).

Sorry, I am not familiar with "PSMF diet". What is that?

Thank you very much for the suggested protocol. I certainly respect John Meadows and any advice he offered (RIP). I might just give this protocol a try although I was hoping to find a way to use insulin indefinitely without cycling on and off, but maybe that just isn't realistic. I got tired of the roller coaster ride of blasting and cruising, cycling on and off compounds. I was hoping to find a good healthy protocol to run indefinitely once I reached a level of bodyfat I am happy with. I was well on my way to doing that until I threw insulin into the mix. The first two weeks on insulin were awesome but then some of the negative sides started. I was just hoping to find a way to use insulin indefinitely in a healthy way. Maybe Meadows' protocol is the best way. Do most of the insulin gains fade when you come off for 4-8 weeks?

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

Just to give you a little insight, my last show I did I was 2 weeks out, pretty lean (for me) ketogenic diet and my blood glucose was high 105-125 and my blood ketones were fucking sky high I believe this happens when you have very high cortisol levels (this will create high fasting glucose numbers)

Were you using insulin? Did your blood glucose levels return to normal afterwards?

 

[b-boy]

Were you using insulin? Did your blood glucose levels return to normal afterwards?

No I wasn't using insulin, it returned to normal after I rest my body, I took a couple days off from gym, prioritized sleep, and ate at maintenance, then my blood sugar dropped.