All calories created equal?

[AWN2004]

I was reading a couple things yesterday and it made me want to post this. I think there have been threads like this one but I have not seen one in a long time so I thought Id post this up.

How many times do you read or hear people talk about how many calories they need to fuel their bodies for the whole day? Particularly if you are an athlete or doing something that is accelerating the metablism, caloric intake is pretty important. However I see, hear, and read so many people just eating out of control (for the most part) and being 100% justified in their actions by saying the extra calories are warranted because they need them. If this was in addition to an eating plan that was carefully thought out and planned, maybe it would be ok. To me though it seems like many are just assuming that all calories are the same they can gorge themselves full of anything (shit most of the time) and it's ok. I just don't see how that is beneficial to bodybuilding or whatever it is that you are doing.

Don't get me wrong, I like to eat stuff that tastes good too. Burgers, pizza, ect taste good but in all reality how practical is that stuff if you really want to make your body the best it can be. Everything when done in moderation is a good thing, but when you start getting fat and try and think that its ok because you are in the off-season or whatever, maybe its time to look at the types of calories you are putting into your body. I just think its crazy to see so many people eating like shit and expecting something possitive to come out of it. I read something Evan Centopani was writing about respecting your body and treating it well and it will do the same for you in return. When you abuse your body, liver, and kidneys but eating shitty the body reacts. I wish I could copy the exact statement because it really resonates in my mind and could not be futher from the truth. Garbage in = Garbage out......giving your body the respect you should be giving it if you want to make the most out of your physique makes sense.

 

[Tom]

calories are not calories

to those that say a calorie is a calorie in relation to gaining and losing bodyweight i must disagree. eat 2500 cals per day of jelly doughnuts for 30 days then switch to 2500 cals per day of lean cuts of beef for 30 days. will your body composition be the same because a calorie is a calorie? i think not!!

 

[Dusty Hanshaw]

Great post AWN. Anyone who knows anything about being a top athlete will tell you that not only do macronutrients matter but so does the source they came from. Not all calories are created equal and neither are the sources that you get them from. Example whole egg vs. Omega3 whole egg

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

For every 100 calories of protein you take in the human body has to burn (roughly) 25 calories thru digestion

For every 100 calories of carbs or fats your body roughly burns 3.5 to 4.5 calories thru digestion.

Take in 400 grams of protien a day and your burning up 400 calories just to digest that (which = a cardio session for the carb based diet guys)

There is no way a calorie = a calorie via the thermic effect of food.

 

[JustWannaBeHuge]

For every 100 calories of protein you take in the human body has to burn (roughly) 25 calories thru digestion

For every 100 calories of carbs or fats your body roughly burns 3.5 to 4.5 calories thru digestion.

Take in 400 grams of protien a day and your burning up 400 calories just to digest that (which = a cardio session for the carb based diet guys)

There is no way a calorie = a calorie via the thermic effect of food.

prolly a stupid question here, but does the calories burned typically come from fat storage?

 

[sammarbella]

Some people still think a calorie is a calorie but is not truth.

**broken link removed**

Mainly this 2 points:

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7. Effect of amino acid plasma levels on protein synthesis


The role of insulin and amino acid plasma concentration on protein metabolism was investigated in normal men (TESSARI et al., 1987). On the basis of leucine kinetic data, it was shown that experimental hyperinsulinemia decreased proteolysis but did not stimulate the incorporation of leucine into protein. By contrast, elevation of plasma levels of amino acids, by infusion of an amino acid mixture, stimulated the incorporation of leucine into protein, but did not suppress endogenous proteolysis. Similar results were reported by CASTELLINO et al. (1987) showing that hyperinsulinemia inhibits protein breakdown, and hyperaminoacidemia stimulates protein synthesis; in contrast to TESSARI et al. (1987), these authors reported that hyperaminoacidemia also inhibited protein breakdown. Thus, substrates and hormone appear to exert different and complementary effects in stimulating protein anabolism.

8. Practical considerations: Role of the thermic effect of nutrients


The studies on the effects of dietary glucose and lipid on protein metabolism have provided evidence that both energy substrates have a protein-sparing effect when given with a mixed diet. For patients who need nutritional rehabilitation, or for growing infants in whom protein retention is high, it may be relevant to take into account not only the protein-sparing effect of nutrients but also the efficiency with which the dietary energy is utilized.

After ingestion of a meal or during intravenous infusion of nutrients, the resting energy expenditure of the subject increases above the premeal baseline. This thermogenic response is often called the thermic effect of nutrients; it depends on the absorption, processing and storing of the nutrients. The carbohydrate-induced thermogenic response is about 7% of the glucose energy administered (SCHUTZ et al., 1983), whereas the thermic effect of fat is approximately 3% (THIÉBAUD et al., 1983). By contrast, the stimulation of energy expenditure following protein ingestion or amino acid infusion is close to 30% of the energy administered (FLATT, 1978), which is mainly due to the stimulation of protein synthesis, gluconeogenesis and ureogenesis. These data suggest that, to provide the non-protein energy, a mixture of carbohydrate and lipid has a smaller thermic effect than an isocaloric amount of carbohydrate. Studies in adults (NORDENSTROM et al., 1982; THIÉBAUD et al., 1983) have indicated that a combined infusion of glucose and lipids might confer a metabolic advantage over a glucose infusion alone, because it increases the efficiency of energy utilization. In full-term newborn infants, a combination of intravenous glucose and fat results in lower energy expenditure than glucose alone as non-protein energy source, leaving more energy for storage and growth (SAUER et al., 1986).

With high glucose administration under conditions of TPN, there is extensive stimulation of lipogenesis from glucose, a process requiring a great deal of energy. Thus, when carbohydrates are given in large quantities, their thermic effect is increased because of an enhanced lipogenesis; in addition, stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system has been reported, which results in a 'facultative' component of thermogenesis and contributes to further enhance energy expenditure (WELLE, LILAVIVAT and CAMPBELL, 1981). When large amounts of glucose are given to infants and children, one approaches a physiologic limit of glucose oxidation. This physiologic maximum of glucose utilization is clearly exceeded when glucose is the only non-protein energy source given to patients requiring TPN. It follows that when glucose alone is given, as compared with a balanced glucose and fat regimen, some energy is wasted through lipogenesis and stimulation of sympathetic activity, and less energy, as ATP, is available for anabolic processes such as protein synthesis. NOSE et al. (1987) showed in infants and children requiring TPN that a solution providing 8% of energy as amino acids, 60% as carbohydrate, and 32% as fat resulted in a greater nitrogen retention than an isoenergetic solution providing 8% of energy as amino acid, 87% as carbohydrate, and 5% as fat. These results support the conclusion that a 'physiologic balance' of fat and carbohydrate results in optimal nitrogen retention........................................................

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hyperaminoacidemia (very high plasma levels of amino acids) can be reached following a high protein diet, mainly using ISO WHEY each 2-3 hours during the day.

More anabolism, less catabolism and less fat depot SIMPLY increasing protein intake.

A calorie is DEFINITELY not a calorie.

Maybe info like this changes their minds.

 

[terryd5150]

For every 100 calories of protein you take in the human body has to burn (roughly) 25 calories thru digestion

For every 100 calories of carbs or fats your body roughly burns 3.5 to 4.5 calories thru digestion.

Take in 400 grams of protien a day and your burning up 400 calories just to digest that (which = a cardio session for the carb based diet guys)

There is no way a calorie = a calorie via the thermic effect of food.

Is your math correct or have these low carb days turned me into a retard again?

 

[qwerty_uk]

Is your math correct or have these low carb days turned me into a retard again?

Maths are correct. 400g x 4 cal per gram =1600 cal / 4

 

[terryd5150]

Maths are correct. 400g x 4 cal per gram =1600 cal / 4

I see.

I didn't see the calorie value of 1 gram of protein in there anywhere, I guess you assumed it was 4. (?)

That's what my equation was lacking.





terryd5150 = bored nerd at work.

 

[terryd5150]

Here's a better question:

I see the point (easily) that a calorie ISN'T universal to all macros.


BUT, what would be a good diet for someone to BULK on without turning into the Michelin Man?

There are tons of examples on here about contest prep diets but no one really talks about bulking other than to say they are getting in 4/5/6/7/8000 calories a day.

What if someone doesn't want to turn into a fatass just to have to cut back down?

 

[Seabiscuit Hogg]

High protein, low glycemic carbs and healthy fats. You have to have an occasional junk meal though.

 

[Liphted]

I see the point (easily) that a calorie ISN'T universal to all macros.


BUT, what would be a good diet for someone to BULK on without turning into the Michelin Man?

There are tons of examples on here about contest prep diets but no one really talks about bulking other than to say they are getting in 4/5/6/7/8000 calories a day.

What if someone doesn't want to turn into a fatass just to have to cut back down?

I've played with just about every diet I can think of and done quite a bit of experimenting on others and what I've found is that if you are going to try and put on some serious weight without turning into a muscular pregnant women you need to be extremely strict (yes, ground breaking advice I know). There is that fine line you have to walk where you're feeding your body enough to grow without causing the accumulation of fat storage, but this requires constant consumption adaptation on your part in regards to your training style, activity level for the day, etc, etc. It's a pain in the ass but when I had time to monitor such things and really focus I could consistently put on weight without breaking 10% bf (I was getting dunked, so I know this was an accurate measure). Obviously it's so much easier to simply exceed any necessary requirements to grow, but like you said, eventually you need to rid yourself of that excess. So now instead of feeling like shit after force feeding yourself for a couple of months you get to feel like shit starving yourself for a couple more. Two steps forward, one step back - it's ridiculous.

Why not take two steps forward and leave it at that? This is nothing new by any means, but it works great for "bulking" and staying somewhat lean without becoming fanatical to the point of insanity about your diet - a simple CKD where cycling calories is also taken into account. Like I said, nothing amazing or new, but very effective. Instead of using it to get you in the shape you want to be, use it to keep yourself hovering around your goal bf% while adding quality lbs. A lot of playing around and experimentation is required to get it right, but I've found once that is ironed out and other supplementation is added in it's very possible to stay lean and grow just as well as a traditional sweaty fat man at a buffet bulker. I'm not going to give some long drawn out explanation simply for one, I'm extremely tired, and secondly no two people respond the same to any one diet. If you've never given it a go definitely think about, and if you have maybe try again but mix up a few variables.

Maths are correct. 400g x 4 cal per gram =1600 cal / 4

I've been staring at a computer screen all day today and I'm pretty damn tired, so maybe my eyes deceive me, but how does 1,600 cal = 400 cal?

 

[terryd5150]

Thanks...

I've played with just about every diet I can think of and done quite a bit of experimenting on others and what I've found is that if you are going to try and put on some serious weight without turning into a muscular pregnant women you need to be extremely strict (yes, ground breaking advice I know). There is that fine line you have to walk where you're feeding your body enough to grow without causing the accumulation of fat storage, but this requires constant consumption adaptation on your part in regards to your training style, activity level for the day, etc, etc. It's a pain in the ass but when I had time to monitor such things and really focus I could consistently put on weight without breaking 10% bf (I was getting dunked, so I know this was an accurate measure). Obviously it's so much easier to simply exceed any necessary requirements to grow, but like you said, eventually you need to rid yourself of that excess. So now instead of feeling like shit after force feeding yourself for a couple of months you get to feel like shit starving yourself for a couple more. Two steps forward, one step back - it's ridiculous.

Why not take two steps forward and leave it at that? This is nothing new by any means, but it works great for "bulking" and staying somewhat lean without becoming fanatical to the point of insanity about your diet - a simple CKD where cycling calories is also taken into account. Like I said, nothing amazing or new, but very effective. Instead of using it to get you in the shape you want to be, use it to keep yourself hovering around your goal bf% while adding quality lbs. A lot of playing around and experimentation is required to get it right, but I've found once that is ironed out and other supplementation is added in it's very possible to stay lean and grow just as well as a traditional sweaty fat man at a buffet bulker. I'm not going to give some long drawn out explanation simply for one, I'm extremely tired, and secondly no two people respond the same to any one diet. If you've never given it a go definitely think about, and if you have maybe try again but mix up a few variables.



I've been staring at a computer screen all day today and I'm pretty damn tired, so maybe my eyes deceive me, but how does 1,600 cal = 400 cal?

I have been VERY strict (made all meals at home/took them with me/even kept food in the truck so I wouldn't miss a meal) in my diet before, and got what I would call "good" results, but not GREAT results. Maybe my carbs were too high, but for the effort I was putting in I didn't seem to be getting much out of it. I was having a hard time getting in enough calories eating cleanly and when I cheated too much to try to get some more I'd get fat around the midsection.

I'd really like to play with the whole "fats" idea I've been hearing people talk about lalely, as it's something I haven't tried myself.

I guess what I'd really be looking for is some sort of sample diet that could provide the calories to grow, while still being able to walk outside with my shirt off and not be embarrased.

I'm not really wanting to look like Lee Priest in his offseason.

 

[sammarbella]

I see the point (easily) that a calorie ISN'T universal to all macros.


BUT, what would be a good diet for someone to BULK on without turning into the Michelin Man?

There are tons of examples on here about contest prep diets but no one really talks about bulking other than to say they are getting in 4/5/6/7/8000 calories a day.

What if someone doesn't want to turn into a fatass just to have to cut back down?

Too much people overcomplex it.

I could be wrong (in general) but the following works for me.

It's pretty simple: Slin control for bulking, Slin control for cutting.

Ingest moderate glycemic carbs in breakfast with protein, low fat.

Take the rest of carbs around workout mainly in PWO shake (faster carbs) and following meal (rice) without any fat and with proteins.

Other meals with protein ,veggies (low glycemic carbs like broccoli high in fiber) and healthy fats.....

It's really easy to add a HUGE amount of calories with a few tablespoons of pure extra virgin olive oil.

ISO whey shakes with every meal helps a lot to add high amounts of aminos in the less volume possible of food intake and with the better and faster assimilation possible.

Bottomline to don't be the michelin man while bulking is:

Never mix moderate-high glycemic index carbs with fats in the same meal and use only this carbs in breakfast and around workout.

I can add a lot of weight bulking staying under 300 gr carbs per day simply increasing oil intake.

Carbs makes me fat in no time...fat don't!

 

[AWN2004]

I can tell you a great read if you are interested and I know many have read it before....but Chris Aceto's "Championship Bodybuilding" is a wealth of knowledge.


Also someone mentioned that they tried to eat clean and follow a strict building diet (I hate the word bulking it serves no purpose in bodybuilding in my opinion) and when the upped the calories with junk they got a bit fatter. Well if you look a little closer you might be really close to knowing exactly how much its going to take you to grow a little better in the off-season. If that one meal (assuming its just that meal or snacks) pushes you over the edge and causes you to gain weight, then you have a rough estimate of the number of calories to shoot for (subtract that one meal from your total). All you have to do now is play around a little with it. Thats how I have done it before at least. One rule I know is for sure is to always eat your base first. Hit those target numbers protein/carbs wise and then have someone extra over the top. The empty calories will kill your diet faster than anything else.

 

[qwerty_uk]

I didn't see the calorie value of 1 gram of protein in there anywhere, I guess you assumed it was 4. (?)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=protein+calories+gram&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

I've been staring at a computer screen all day today and I'm pretty damn tired, so maybe my eyes deceive me, but how does 1,600 cal = 400 cal?

'For every 100 calories of protein you take in the human body has to burn (roughly) 25 calories thru digestion'

so a 1/4 of the total cals from protein are wasted. so 1/4 of 1600.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Too much people overcomplex it.

I could be wrong (in general) but the following works for me.

It's pretty simple: Slin control for bulking, Slin control for cutting.

Ingest moderate glycemic carbs in breakfast with protein, low fat.

Take the rest of carbs around workout mainly in PWO shake (faster carbs) and following meal (rice) without any fat and with proteins.

Other meals with protein ,veggies (low glycemic carbs like broccoli high in fiber) and healthy fats.....

It's really easy to add a HUGE amount of calories with a few tablespoons of pure extra virgin olive oil.

ISO whey shakes with every meal helps a lot to add high amounts of aminos in the less volume possible of food intake and with the better and faster assimilation possible.

Bottomline to don't be the michelin man while bulking is:

Never mix moderate-high glycemic index carbs with fats in the same meal and use only this carbs in breakfast and around workout.

I can add a lot of weight bulking staying under 300 gr carbs per day simply increasing oil intake.

Carbs makes me fat in no time...fat don't!

I like how you think Sammar...thats cut right from my own "gameplan"...very good post

 

[terryd5150]

I like how you think Sammar...thats cut right from my own "gameplan"...very good post

Yes, thanks sam.


So, low glycemic carbs and fats are ok in the same meal (brown rice, sweet potatos, etc)?


Also, thanks DC for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[sammarbella]

Yes, thanks sam.


So, low glycemic carbs and fats are ok in the same meal (brown rice, sweet potatos, etc)?


Also, thanks DC for pointing me in the right direction.

No.

Brown rice (55 GI)and sweet potatoes (44) are defenitely not low glycemic index carbs.

**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

Low glycemic carbs are veggies (and not all veggies...), they have also very few carbs gr per 100 gr of food, veggies like this ones:

Food GI

Broccoli 10
Cabbage 10
Lettuce 10
Mushroom 10
Onions 10
Red Peppers 10

They stimulate a VERY little insulin response.

For diet my prefered is broccoli cause is plenty of vitamins and minerals and it's one of this foods that requieres more energy to digest it than the energy provided by it!

You burn calories simply eating it!

P.E.

**broken link removed**

 

[rmtt]

No.

Brown rice (55 GI)and sweet potatoes (44) are defenitely not low glycemic index carbs.

**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

Low glycemic carbs are veggies (and not all veggies...), they have also very few carbs gr per 100 gr of food, veggies like this ones:

Food GI

Broccoli 10
Cabbage 10
Lettuce 10
Mushroom 10
Onions 10
Red Peppers 10

They stimulate a VERY little insulin response.

For diet my prefered is broccoli cause is plenty of vitamins and minerals and it's one of this foods that requieres more energy to digest it than the energy provided by it!

You burn calories simply eating it!

P.E.

**broken link removed**

Nice link. Thanks for that.