Any legit OTC muscle building supps?

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

Oh yeah. I believe I know which conversation you're referencing? Unless you have another one you might have tucked away you wanna share?

I've known Patrick (on a personal level) since he moved to Champaign, I'll back around 98' or thereabouts. I was one of the first to guinea pig several of his supplements long before he launched them. I also introduced my brother to Patrick years ago, in which he was a sales rep for him and Lakhan when Ergopharm was the hit supplement line.

Nevertheless, I've had this same conversation with Patrick, he didn't seem to carry the same tone you're describing.

I could only find quotes from Patrick Arnold where he was neither giving credence to nor discrediting Arachidonic Acid.
I have to retract the statement that I "came across a quote" as I believe he was commenting on potential dangers of X-factor on a podcast I'd heard. I shouldn't have said "very dangerous" as he commented something along the lines of people with hereditary issues of inflammation should avoid it. Arthritis runs in my family thus it could be very dangerous for me to use. I admit the mistake.
If memory serves me correctly, by Patrick Arnold's own admission, he has a demeanor and way of speaking that can be misleading or misconstrued. I took it that Patrick Arnold was being crtitical of William Llewellyn's knowledge, however perhaps I was wrong.
I do not wish to discredit or disrespect either individual. I have 2 of Llewellyn's Books and used to follow PA's blog and posts on Muscular Development.

I considered the risk of AA and chose to take it anyway. My muscles felt full at first and then I started having joint issues. Eventually my elbows were just shot. I had an extra bottle and gave it to a co-worker who felt he wouldn't have any issues. Ultimately he didn't have any joint issues and really like the product.
I personally wouldn't recommend that anyone take Arachidonic Acid, but this is my subjective opinion. There are many studies showing positive results.

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

Ursolic Acid is a big seller for Pat.

Personally I'm inclined to go with something that has anti-inflammatory properties (such as Ursolic Acid) over something that causes inflammation.

Seems to be a good seller for PA as it's often sold out.

 

[XXL]

Nope. Drink milk

 

[aphextwin]

I would def like to try Dante's product here soon while staying on TRT. It is something that does look very promising.

 

[kingpeon]

Can you get it here in the US?

Yes

 

[kingpeon]

I would like to thank Dante for bringing up Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract, forgot about that one. Excellent addition to the exotic supps stack

 

[Stewie]

Personally I'm inclined to go with something that has anti-inflammatory properties (such as Ursolic Acid) over something that causes inflammation.

Seems to be a good seller for PA as it's often sold out.

Look into the pendulum swinging both ways on pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory properties of both Ursolic Acid and Arachidonic Acid.

However, I'll leave you with this in the meantime


Ursolic acid induces the production of IL6 and chemokines in both adipocytes and adipose tissue

Previous studies have reported that UA inhibited inflammation in many tissues and cells, including liver, kidney, spinal cord, intestine and macrophages [9,16,18,23,26,31]. However, some other studies found that UA enhanced proinflammatory factors expression in resting macrophages and mouse skin [14,15,20]. Thus, UA has both positive and negative effects on the expression of inflammatory cytokines in different cell types and tissues. Our study demonstrated that UA stimulated the expression of interleukins Il6 and Il1b and chemokines Mcp1, Mcp3 and Mip2 in adipocytes and adipose tissue. It is interesting that only the expression of Il6, but not Tnfa, was elevated by UA in adipocytes. That might be because MCP1 could induce the expression of Il6, but not Tnfa [32]. It has been reported that IL6 could induce hepatic insulin resistance [33,34].Thus, short-term UA administration might impair hepatic insulin sensitivity by stimulating adipose tissue to secret IL6. Our data also demonstrated that UA administration trended to impair glucose tolerance test in DIO mice. The effect of long-term UA administration on adipose tissue inflammation and insulin sensitivity needs further study to be explored.

.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21623945.2020.1814545

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

Look into the pendulum swinging both ways on pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory properties of both Ursolic Acid and Arachidonic Acid.

However, I'll leave you with this in the meantime


Ursolic acid induces the production of IL6 and chemokines in both adipocytes and adipose tissue

.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21623945.2020.1814545

I appreciate the information.

 

[aphextwin]

Personally I'm inclined to go with something that has anti-inflammatory properties (such as Ursolic Acid) over something that causes inflammation.

Seems to be a good seller for PA as it's often sold out.

I remember using several bottles of PA’s UA....I just didn’t stay consistent with the sprays. I hated doing it. It’s unfortunate because mAybe I was missing out on what it was supposed to do. Back then I was more interested in gear and HGH rather than natural compounds

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

I remember using several bottles of PA’s UA....I just didn’t stay consistent with the sprays. I hated doing it. It’s unfortunate because mAybe I was missing out on what it was supposed to do. Back then I was more interested in gear and HGH rather than natural compounds

Having to shower to open the pores before spraying his products doesn't seem like it would work for me as I am not always able to keep the same schedule or routine. If we're in a rush would most it just end up on my close? These questions and potential issues have prevented me from trying it. Whenever I had put my reservations aside and looked to purchase UA the item was sold out lol. Must be working for some people but I don't know if I will be one of em.

 

[BigGame]

Transdermal is superior to oral but it's a PITA. Not convenient. I do think the UR spray helps with recomp but it's not a miracle drug. Just one of the more effective OTC supplements you can purchase.

 

[aphextwin]

Having to shower to open the pores before spraying his products doesn't seem like it would work for me as I am not always able to keep the same schedule or routine. If we're in a rush would most it just end up on my close? These questions and potential issues have prevented me from trying it. Whenever I had put my reservations aside and looked to purchase UA the item was sold out lol. Must be working for some people but I don't know if I will be one of em.

It’s obviously a popular product. It makes me wonder if he’s selling the hell out of that product and can’t keep up with the demand. I’m not buying it again.

 

[N.L....M.....]

I started using an eaas and dextrose intra workout and my recovery has been phenomenal. I’ve never been able to handle a Meadows routine before. I went from 4 days of low volume training to 6days high frequency and volume and lower calories and Im feeling great each workout

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

I started using an eaas and dextrose intra workout and my recovery has been phenomenal. I’ve never been able to handle a Meadows routine before. I went from 4 days of low volume training to 6days high frequency and volume and lower calories and Im feeling great each workout

Have you tried MG's Powdered Muscle?
This is the suggested use: Consume in three even portions, taking the first third pre-workout, the second during the workout, and the final amount immediately post-workout.

I have used Powdered Muscle through the years with satisfactory results.
I am currently using Peptopro, KarboLoad and Custer Dextrin.

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

As others, including Dante, have attested Creatine has the best track record as an OTC supplement which actually aids muscle gain.
While most clinical trails test Creatine Monohydrate I am actually a bigger fan of 'Magnapower'. The Creatine Chelate from Albion is bonded to Magnesium increasing the water solubility. A 5 gram serving containing 400mg of mag. Magnesium is obviously an essential nutrient and using Magnapower is a great way of increasing the intake of such.

I also believe that Kre-Alkalyn to be an effective option. I utilize Magnapower pre-workout and Kre-Alkalyn post.

 

[N.L....M.....]

Have you tried MG's Powdered Muscle?
This is the suggested use: Consume in three even portions, taking the first third pre-workout, the second during the workout, and the final amount immediately post-workout.

I have used Powdered Muscle through the years with satisfactory results.
I am currently using Peptopro, KarboLoad and Custer Dextrin.

I’ll check it out. I’ve never used any workout supplement besides protein powder. I used humapro in the past but that’s about it.

 

[Rot-Iron66]

I would like to thank Dante for bringing up Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract, forgot about that one. Excellent addition to the exotic supps stack

Rob Regish has been touting Rhaponticum Carthamoides for a long time, and there's tons of garbage out there. Need quality Ecdy, like anything else I guess...
And mainly for natties, being on TRT even I dont think it would help much. When I was natty, I did notice great recovery on Adaptogen-N, and Kre-Anabolyn 747 (by MASS).
Way more pricey than gear though, and no where near the bang for the buck... I do trust all of Dante's supplements though (sourcing, etc) I use them daily (Protein, Oats, Collagen).

 

[aphextwin]

I’m not familiar with Rhaponticum. I can say for certain that Dante is a man of his word. If he believes in something he’s willing to back it up. A lot of guys in the industry talk a great game but lack any true integrity. I trust Dante and Mike Arnold. Mike is another solid guy. I don’t know him like some on here but my interactions with him have be great.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

This is the route I am pursuing......

https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.31.1_supplement.795.3

Alot of legwork to say the least

 

[Astudent]

This is the route I am pursuing......

https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.31.1_supplement.795.3

Alot of legwork to say the least

@DOGGCRAPP if anybody can get the proper extracts and dosages I believe you can. Dante have you seen anything when it comes to Rhaponticum and 10 levseins?