BCAA's vs. EAA's

[Mike Arnold]

Can't comment on what others do. Recently discovered leucine is the only of the 3 bcaa that activate mtor and contribute to Muscle building and preservation

Yep, this has been known for many years, which is why I have consistently recommended leucine ONLY....never BCAA's.

In fact, new research shows that consuming all 3 BCAA's (leucine, isoleucine, valine) will actually REDUCE leucine's muscle building effect, while possibly causing further reductions in insulin sensitivity.

According to all the research that has been done over the last 5 years, the best way to use aminos is to use leucine at timed intervals as an mTOR booster (simulator of protein synthesis), while using EAA's solely as another form of building blocks.

BCAA's appear to have no place in a bodybuilder's amino acid regimen.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I just really doubt there would be a real world measurable difference between using BCAAs vs EAAs on top of all the other standard and/or exotic performance enhancing drugs most guys on here are using...

If anyone thinks they are missing out on anything whatsoever by using one over the other, just use both.

They have two completely different roles. Leucine, which is one of the three BCAA's, is the primary simulator of protein synthesis, while EAA's are the building blocks used for muscle growth. Without leucine's stimulatory signal, the other EAA's are essentially worthless.

Of course, we consume in leucine any time we eat a complete protein source, but research has shown it takes about 4.5 grams of leucine, administered in bolus form and rapidly absorbed, to maximally stimulate protein synthesis. We can't accomplish this with traditional whole food protein sources, such as red meat, eggs, etc. We need to consume leucine in its purified form in order to achieve this...although hydrolyzed whey is also an effective alternative due to its high leucine content and rapid digestibility.

But, if your just looking to maximize protein synthesis without having to consume all the other aminos in whey protein hydrolysate, purified leucine is the only way to accomplish this.

 

[Pericles]

Yep, this has been known for many years, which is why I have consistently recommended leucine ONLY....never BCAA's.

In fact, new research shows that consuming all 3 BCAA's (leucine, isoleucine, valine) will actually REDUCE leucine's muscle building effect, while possibly causing further reductions in insulin sensitivity.

According to all the research that has been done over the last 5 years, the best way to use aminos is to use leucine at timed intervals as an mTOR booster (simulator of protein synthesis), while using EAA's solely as another form of building blocks.

BCAA's appear to have no place in a bodybuilder's amino acid regimen.

So why would layne Norton have those in his formula?

 

[jayl19]

15g of EAA has 5g of lecine in it so you wouldn't need to add it or bother with standard bcaas

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23043721

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3183816/

 

[Mike Arnold]

So why would layne Norton have those in his formula?

Have what?

 

[Mike Arnold]

15g of EAA has 5g of lecine in it so you wouldn't need to add it or bother with standard bcaas

You mean a specific formula, right?

Whey protein, which has the highest concentration of leucine out of any commonly consumed protein source, has about 4.5 grams of leucine per 45 grams of EAA's.

There is no food source that contains 5 grams of leucine per 15 grams of EAA's unless it is an amino blend specifically designed that way.

I often have clients consumed 5 grams of leucine with 15-20 grams of EAA's with their intra-shake. True Nutrition sells both instantized leucine and EAA's at the lowest price I have seen. This is where I buy mine and where I tell all my clients to buy their's.

 

[Pericles]

Have what?

L-Leucine 4 g †
L-Citrulline Malate 3 g †
L-Valine 2 g †
L-Isoleucine 2 g †
L-Carnitine L-Tartrate (as Carnipure®) 1 g †
CherryPURE® Tart Cherry Powder 480 mg

Thats his product that he formulated. He's done a TON of research on protein and leucine in particular. SO, why would he have isoleucine and valine in his formula?

 

[Mike Arnold]

L-Leucine 4 g †
L-Citrulline Malate 3 g †
L-Valine 2 g †
L-Isoleucine 2 g †
L-Carnitine L-Tartrate (as Carnipure®) 1 g †
CherryPURE® Tart Cherry Powder 480 mg

Thats his product that he formulated. He's done a TON of research on protein and leucine in particular. SO, why would he have isoleucine and valine in his formula?

I don't know...ask him. Every amino acid has certain benefits, including isoleucine and valine, but when it comes to stimulating protein synthesis, leucine alone is superior.

 

[nothuman]

They have two completely different roles. Leucine, which is one of the three BCAA's, is the primary simulator of protein synthesis, while EAA's are the building blocks used for muscle growth. Without leucine's stimulatory signal, the other EAA's are essentially worthless.

Of course, we consume in leucine any time we eat a complete protein source, but research has shown it takes about 4.5 grams of leucine, administered in bolus form and rapidly absorbed, to maximally stimulate protein synthesis. We can't accomplish this with traditional whole food protein sources, such as red meat, eggs, etc. We need to consume leucine in its purified form in order to achieve this...although hydrolyzed whey is also an effective alternative due to its high leucine content and rapid digestibility.

But, if your just looking to maximize protein synthesis without having to consume all the other aminos in whey protein hydrolysate, purified leucine is the only way to accomplish this.

I was going to post this but I knew I'd have to track down the studies or else people would crucify me and call bs, so thanks for posting

 

[Swifto]

15g of EAA has 5g of lecine in it so you wouldn't need to add it or bother with standard bcaas

Correct.

My EAAs have 5g leucine per 15g EAAs.

 

[jayl19]

You mean a specific formula, right?

Whey protein, which has the highest concentration of leucine out of any commonly consumed protein source, has about 4.5 grams of leucine per 45 grams of EAA's.

There is no food source that contains 5 grams of leucine per 15 grams of EAA's unless it is an amino blend specifically designed that way.

I often have clients consumed 5 grams of leucine with 15-20 grams of EAA's with their intra-shake. True Nutrition sells both instantized leucine and EAA's at the lowest price I have seen. This is where I buy mine and where I tell all my clients to buy their's.

Yes, I'm talking about the supplement formula I use from go-nutrition, I have no idea how much aminos are in meats

 

[nothuman]

And forgot to mention there was also a study on Suppversity showing BCAAs blunt fat loss

 

[NGL34]

For the natural athlete I could see some benefits using either or both bcaa or eaa.. But for those of us who are "on" our body are already in protein synthesis overdrive. If your eating around the clock and making sure your getting protein with each meal, I really feel these amino acids are just another expense where you might get some gains, but not significant enough to really tell a difference.

 

[Pericles]

For the natural athlete I could see some benefits using either or both bcaa or eaa.. But for those of us who are "on" our body are already in protein synthesis overdrive. If your eating around the clock and making sure your getting protein with each meal, I really feel these amino acids are just another expense where you might get some gains, but not significant enough to really tell a difference.

Would disagree on protein synthesis overdrive.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Yes, I'm talking about the supplement formula I use from go-nutrition, I have no idea how much aminos are in meats

OK, Gotcha.

 

[Mike Arnold]

For the natural athlete I could see some benefits using either or both bcaa or eaa.. But for those of us who are "on" our body are already in protein synthesis overdrive. If your eating around the clock and making sure your getting protein with each meal, I really feel these amino acids are just another expense where you might get some gains, but not significant enough to really tell a difference.

In my opinion, leucine is one of the most valuable and effective supplements a bodybuilder can use...right up there with creatine and protein powders. You can NOT duplicate the protein synthesis stimulating effects of leucine with whole food. In short, this is because the leucine within whole food is not liberated quickly enough. Rather than being "dumped" into the system all at once (which is what happens when we take straight leucine), it "trickles" into circulation slowly...over several hours. This prevents blood leucine levels from reaching optimal concentrations, so one's protein synthesis rate is never maximized.

Over time, the increase in protein synthesis caused by leucine will contribute to significant muscle growth.

 

[Reporich]

This is great info! Thanks

 

[jayl19]

In my opinion, leucine is one of the most valuable and effective supplements a bodybuilder can use...right up there with creatine and protein powders. You can NOT duplicate the protein synthesis stimulating effects of leucine with whole food. In short, this is because the leucine within whole food is not liberated quickly enough. Rather than being "dumped" into the system all at once (which is what happens when we take straight leucine), it "trickles" into circulation slowly...over several hours. This prevents blood leucine levels from reaching optimal concentrations, so one's protein synthesis rate is never maximized.

Over time, the increase in protein synthesis caused by leucine will contribute to significant muscle growth.

Quick question mike...

So would sipping on leucine wether it be pure leucine, Bcaa or eaa over one hour during a workout not give us that "dumped" effect?