Bench Press...What Incline?

[A50#]

I know alot of guys here dont like the standard flat bench so I'm about to start a new routine and am wondering what degree of incline would be best for overall chest development?

 

[din'e warrior]

i like the bench at 30 - 45 hits to much front delt.

 

[maldorf]

Not sure what the angle is, but I always set it as low as it will go. As close to flat as you can get. I feel like what I want is just enough that gets your in a postition where when you arch your back you shoulders are almost level.

 

[readyset]

Not sure what the angle is, but I always set it as low as it will go. As close to flat as you can get. I feel like what I want is just enough that gets your in a postition where when you arch your back you shoulders are almost level.

inclines are my favorite chest exercise, i do the same - as low as possible

 

[maldorf]

inclines are my favorite chest exercise, i do the same - as low as possible

For me at least it really seems to take the stress off of my rotator cuffs. I know before when I was doing flat I got so sore in the rear of my delts that I could barely do the bar without bad pain. No more flats, EVER! I think its mostly the supraspinatus muscle that was getting messed up on me.

 

[Ness]

Question

Why would you ever train your chest with incline or flat when you can use more weight with decline or dips? Also, why would you ever use a chest exercise to hit your delts when they get blasted enough with other exercises like....laterals? In a chest exercise, your delts are the weak link in the lift.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

BOOM

Why would you ever train your chest with incline or flat when you can use more weight with decline or dips? Also, why would you ever use a chest exercise to hit your delts when they get blasted enough with other exercises like....laterals? In a chest exercise, your delts are the weak link in the lift.

EXACTLY. incline is for the birds..... -JS

 

[maldorf]

EXACTLY. incline is for the birds..... -JS

I think decline is a lot better too. Dips, I always had shoulder issue with if I did them on a regular basis. I used to do declines most of the time, but after awhile even those would mess up my rotator cuff. When that happened, then I would switch to the lowest incline you can do. Those fixed incline barbell benches are all useless because they are way too steep. You need a really low incline so you have to use an adjustable bench like you would use with dumbells. I then use the bench inside of a powerrack so that I can use a barbell instead of dumbells.

 

[tkav1980]

Why would you ever train your chest with incline or flat when you can use more weight with decline or dips? Also, why would you ever use a chest exercise to hit your delts when they get blasted enough with other exercises like....laterals? In a chest exercise, your delts are the weak link in the lift.

This can get interresting. I wish Homon...something....culus, i can never remember how he spells it, posted more over here. I got into this same debate with him over at IM. not too smart of me with him having his PHD in kenesiology (sp?). yup he intellectually kicked my ass. From the discussion that took place, he said that the reason for an incline bench press was the way the muscle was laid out. If i remember correctly there is pennated and fusiliform muscle tissue. These differences have to do with the shape of the muscle and the way its connected to the bone. hopefully i can find the thread when i get home from work later and ill post a link, as i cannot speak authoritatively on it. but i think you may find it interresting.


haha found it.
**broken link removed**


Ness you will get what homon is saying immediately, some others may not. i unfortunately did not save the PM's following the thread with the detailed explainations in it.



that thread was some time ago. after reading thru it it wasnt this exact same topic mut still somewhat relavent.

 

[Chrysler]

After years of observation it still comes down to, declines don't, and never will fill out my upper pecs. The only thing that gets sore on my chest when I do declines and dips are my outer and lower pecs. Neither do steep inclines, though. Inclines at a 15 degree angle are the shit, however.

 

[Chrysler]

haha found it.
**broken link removed**


Ness you will get what homon is saying immediately, some others may not. i unfortunately did not save the PM's following the thread with the detailed explainations in it.

That's too bad. I'd really like to read it. End this debate from someone who actually has a viewpoint other than anecdotal.

 

[tkav1980]

After years of observation it still comes down to, declines don't, and never will fill out my upper pecs. The only thing that gets sore on my chest when I do declines and dips are my outer and lower pecs. Neither do steep inclines, though. Inclines at a 15 degree angle are the shit, however.

be cautious how you read what homon wrote. It wasnt confirming the benefit of inclines or downplaying the benefit of declines. The message was to intelligently discuss benefits of different exercises in a manner other than using anecdotal evidence you really need a complete understanding of that part of human anatomy. The more i read from verry knowledgeable people the more i realize how little i really know.

ness makes some really valid points when referring to really nailing a muscle with heavy weight and the ability to lift more wiht declines. He is a Student of Phils, and a smart one at that. In the scope of Phil's program, im basing this on the one i was given, Declines and dips are EXTREMELY effective for overall chest development. However when your looking into other training methods, DC specifically, the routine would fall apart if all you did was decline bench because progression would quickly come to a halt. Therefore variation in exercises becomes a necessity.

What I feel flies over the heads of alot of people when looking into what initally seems to be 2 drastically different training approaches is the core principles, the ones that really yield the results, do not vary. theres is 2 places progression needs to take place for maximum muscle gains. The stress placed on the muscle with progressive resistance. and Progression in nutrient intake to support newly gained mass and to develop new tissue. In this regard both programs are the same.

Now back to the origional point of the thread about one being more effective than the other( angle of incline). well that issue in my mind is irrelivent. 30 degrees vs. 45 degrees, wont mean anything if you are not getting stronger no matter what the angle is. Now taking that into account there is a greater injury risk wiht and incline than a decline. This can be overcome by progressing in the proper rep ranges. lets look at DC again for this example. for an incline bench press 25-30 reps is what i shoot for. you wont see a guy with a small chest hitting those with 365lbs. plain and simple. for a decline i has been my experience that a greater weight lets say 405 for 15-18 reps is acceptably safe. Id love for Phil to chime in here if he would oblige. He knows much more about anatomy than i do, and if HOMON would stop by that would be fantastic too.

 

[Stewie Griffon]

maybe some of you will find this information useful

**broken link removed**

it shows EMG results of various muscle groups during different exercises and lists the percentage of the muscle stimulated

 

[Ness]

After years of observation it still comes down to, declines don't, and never will fill out my upper pecs. The only thing that gets sore on my chest when I do declines and dips are my outer and lower pecs. Neither do steep inclines, though. Inclines at a 15 degree angle are the shit, however.

Your upper pecs development comes down to your genetics, bro. Ever looked at Hernon's chest? Need I say more?

Also, soreness is not an indicator muscle growth.

 

[FIRE0808]

Low incline 20-30 works very well for me. Takes the pain off my shoulder.

 

[donkeydon]

for me 15 to 30 degrees works. im old 40 ish. gotta stay away from the 45 angle.

 

[kscowboy]

Im just like Maldorf. I set it as low as it will go. Just a notch or two above flat.

 

[EDED]

another student of Phil here,

incline used to be my strogest bench movement, dont know how or why but i was...however, i have gotten better results doing decline and dips and never changing programs and keep pushing at the plateau (eventually breaks) i have grown better from those two simple compound movements.

decline db is what i need, dec bb still hurts,,,dips took a while for me to figure out the good form/angle for my body type and once igot it, its awesome.

just sharing.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

agreed on every point.

another student of Phil here,

incline used to be my strogest bench movement, dont know how or why but i was...however, i have gotten better results doing decline and dips and never changing programs and keep pushing at the plateau (eventually breaks) i have grown better from those two simple compound movements.

decline db is what i need, dec bb still hurts,,,dips took a while for me to figure out the good form/angle for my body type and once igot it, its awesome.

just sharing.

movements are only good if they work for YOUR structure. but its true that upper chest development and etc are nearly completely determined upon genetics.
Phil Hernons chest case in point.
-JS

 

[Snuka]

I always use dumbells on a bench one notch up from flat. Then hammer strength declines and either pec dec or cable cross overs to finish and thats it. I don't do flat bench any more unless every piece of equipment is taken in the gym. My chest looks better than it ever has on any other routine.