Best coach you’ve used

[Kid Dynamite]

Has anyone worked with Chris Tuttle?

yes.. Been using him the last 7-8 years. Always gets me dialed in..

 

[Massivekaos]

I'm not a fan of ventura, seen his protocol and he has way too much tren ace and halo in the plan for physique guys.

Really considered AJ but only thing that held me back was his rumoured high doses. He is still top 3 for potential coaches for when I do hire a coach in the coming months.

Do you mind sharing Ventura’s protocol with me if you don’t mind? I’m curious to see what the hype is. I do men’s physique (just got 3rd at npc nationals last year with a “no name”
Non popular coach) and have full confidence in my coach. Competed with a lot of guys that used him and have had no
Problem consistently beating them

 

[Bwanna]

Just me.

 

[tren_plz]

What’s everyone thoughts on working with natural based coaches for diet and training? Or def training part.

They seem to have a more evidence based approach to nutrition and training and drugs you can always do yourself depending you’re level or hire someone else’s for drugs if need be.

Example someone like Eric Helms or Layne norton

I don’t have Personel experience with these popular coaches but some of them have a real bro science approach to things esp diet.

If you're on gear I wouldnt use them personally. Maybe @b-boy Can chime in. I know he used Layne.

I HIGHLY respect both of them and they're experts in their field. IDK if they'd even take clients on PEDS honestly.

 

[b-boy]

If you're on gear I wouldnt use them personally. Maybe @b-boy Can chime in. I know he used Layne.

I HIGHLY respect both of them and they're experts in their field. IDK if they'd even take clients on PEDS honestly.

I used Layne Norton and he was excellent! Some guys want a drug guru and not a diet coach, if you want a diet coach then any well versed diet coach knows how to make adjustments, you run your gear and he adjust your diet depending on what those drugs do to your metabolism. If your jacked up on tren and dropping weight to fast then he adds more calories into daily diet or allows for cheat meals to compensate for the metabolic boost from tren. The problem is most newbie dumb fucks are just looking for a drug guru who is going to give them "THE SECRET OF THE OLYMPIANS" ....LOL dumbfucks!!

 

[jaxino]

I am very curious about Patrick Tuor approach to offseason, diet, peds and workout.... Most of his guys have excellent offseason condition....
I remember from a podcast that he said he gives to his athletes 1g Test max per week.
Peds or not the diet he gives imho is really accurately tailored on the client.

 

[alfresco]

I used Layne Norton and he was excellent! Some guys want a drug guru and not a diet coach, if you want a diet coach then any well versed diet coach knows how to make adjustments, you run your gear and he adjust your diet depending on what those drugs do to your metabolism. If your jacked up on tren and dropping weight to fast then he adds more calories into daily diet or allows for cheat meals to compensate for the metabolic boost from tren. The problem is most newbie dumb fucks are just looking for a drug guru who is going to give them "THE SECRET OF THE OLYMPIANS" ....LOL dumbfucks!!

So so true., looking for the secret. Did it for many many years, never found it

From my limited experience and far from being an expert (in everything); what I have read
and heard, diet is the hardest to dial in and it the single most determining factor in
determining your success and how you look. (Think of Oliva winning the Olympia
unchallenged and while huge, a real monster, he would be considered, and was, smooth.
That would not happen today, both parts.)

What makes it interesting is how a competitor can come in dialed in in once contest and the
next one, totally mis the mark. Interesting. One would think that if you found the correct diet,
you would not change a thing . . . just repeat, ad size as required, repeat diet. Drugs I know
next to nothings about but from what I have read here not many people do or there effects
vary something like 1,000%, give or take an order of magnitude.

Drugs are the icing on the cake. There was an interview here that I need to listen to again so
I don't get this wrong but I think it went something like this . . . try a drug, write qty and
effects and bad, good down, do same again and again with different drugs until you have figured
what to avoid and what to use. These forums with all the drug talk is just that, talk. It's good
to share experiences but do not let another's influence you blindly if your body says otherwise.

Anybody remember who this podcast / video was with?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

What makes it interesting is how a competitor can come in dialed in in once contest and the
next one, totally mis the mark. Interesting. One would think that if you found the correct diet,
you would not change a thing . . . just repeat, ad size as required, repeat diet. Drugs I know
next to nothings about but from what I have read here not many people do or there effects
vary something like 1,000%, give or take an order of magnitude.

Honestly, this isn't a diet thing tho. At least when it comes to the upper echelon of BBing.
And competitors know this (no offense).
Everyone on stage at the Olympia is at 5%. Each and every one of them.
But 5% looks different on each person. The winner of each contest, olympia included, is the ideal image 5%
The "off" look is usually guys trying to manipulate water, sodium, carb ups to find their ideal image 5%.
So it makes sense. At the top level, no one is fucking up and coming in at 8%. Diet isn't a thing at that point.
It's the small details of being too flat, looking watery, being too full, etc.

PLUS, the body reacts differently based on stress, age, blah blah. Lets look at Iain Valliere. He gets lean as hell. But trying to hit that perfect ideal 5% is difficult. One show he's too full. One show he has saggy watery glutes, another he isn't fully carbed up.

 

[luki7788]

I am very curious about Patrick Tuor approach to offseason, diet, peds and workout.... Most of his guys have excellent offseason condition....
I remember from a podcast that he said he gives to his athletes 1g Test max per week.
Peds or not the diet he gives imho is really accurately tailored on the client.

1g test max never believe words spoken in public

 

[b-boy]

Honestly, this isn't a diet thing tho. At least when it comes to the upper echelon of BBing.
And competitors know this (no offense).
Everyone on stage at the Olympia is at 5%. Each and every one of them.
But 5% looks different on each person. The winner of each contest, olympia included, is the ideal image 5%
The "off" look is usually guys trying to manipulate water, sodium, carb ups to find their ideal image 5%.
So it makes sense. At the top level, no one is fucking up and coming in at 8%. Diet isn't a thing at that point.
It's the small details of being too flat, looking watery, being too full, etc.

PLUS, the body reacts differently based on stress, age, blah blah. Lets look at Iain Valliere. He gets lean as hell. But trying to hit that perfect ideal 5% is difficult. One show he's too full. One show he has saggy watery glutes, another he isn't fully carbed up.

I'm not even going to go into your post and how I think its wrong, im just going to say this.. imagine if Iain came in this peeled, with his bodyfat this low and what his physique would look like with all the muscle he carries, imagine if Iain came in as lean as most of shelbys female clients (scaled to a man's even lower bodyfat). It comes down to who is able to endure the suffering of your body going to extreme low bodyfat and doing everything against you for survival sake, who can endure the days on in of extreme hunger, extreme lethargy, extreme fatigue, and still work a 9-5 job, lift as heavy as you can and do what seems like hours on end of cardio? I know i couldn't thats why i was NEVER as peeled as shelby starnes in this pic! It takes an extreme mental fortitude to get to this conditioning, your not saying O I look flat, I need a refeed every 5th day, no you endure the suck so you can get that last bit of stubborn bodyfat that your body doesn't want to let go of, its literally a fight for life and death in your bodys eyes, and you have to overcome and win that fight. There are a few people like shelby and John meadows that can endure that suck, some people like AJ sims are gifted with a fast metabolism but even at extreme low bodyfat levels he has to endure this battle and he has shown to have the mental ability to win that war also. Im going to leave this pic here and just imagine Iain this peeled and dry and tell me how many shows would he lose then, how would he not make the top 6 at the olympia, Iain always says he's in shape, but is he is this kind of shape?

 

[b-boy]

And for those that say bigger guys have a harder time getting in that type of conditioning.... well the KING was the KING for a reason...i present the best bodybuilder to ever touch planet earth, imagine Iain looking this shredded

 

[USMuscle9403]

And for those that say bigger guys have a harder time getting in that type of conditioning.... well the KING was the KING for a reason...i present the best bodybuilder to ever touch planet earth, imagine Iain looking this shreddedView attachment 121113

The 'wtf?' is just on another level

 

[madg]

Ronnie will never be surpased imo

I love his training vids

THE GOAT !!

Respect

 

[TheOtherOne55]

You're missing the entire point.
The guys that get like that don't get like that ONCE.
Thats why i say diet isn't a thing at that level. JM wasn't showing up at shows at 6 and then 4 and then 7.
My point was that most dudes are consistent, they get lean (yes others like shelby are freak and get leannnn lean) but the mistakes ARE NOT, "oh shit, i guess i fucked up my diet and I'm 7% this show..." the mistakes are trying to find the magic look in the final days.

Iain was not leaner in NY than he was in Tampa. He and Patrick Tuor just missed the mark of trying to show that level of leaness in the best way (the last 2 days).

I'm not even going to go into your post and how I think its wrong, im just going to say this.. imagine if Iain came in this peeled, with his bodyfat this low and what his physique would look like with all the muscle he carries, imagine if Iain came in as lean as most of shelbys female clients (scaled to a man's even lower bodyfat). It comes down to who is able to endure the suffering of your body going to extreme low bodyfat and doing everything against you for survival sake, who can endure the days on in of extreme hunger, extreme lethargy, extreme fatigue, and still work a 9-5 job, lift as heavy as you can and do what seems like hours on end of cardio? I know i couldn't thats why i was NEVER as peeled as shelby starnes in this pic! It takes an extreme mental fortitude to get to this conditioning, your not saying O I look flat, I need a refeed every 5th day, no you endure the suck so you can get that last bit of stubborn bodyfat that your body doesn't want to let go of, its literally a fight for life and death in your bodys eyes, and you have to overcome and win that fight. There are a few people like shelby and John meadows that can endure that suck, some people like AJ sims are gifted with a fast metabolism but even at extreme low bodyfat levels he has to endure this battle and he has shown to have the mental ability to win that war also. Im going to leave this pic here and just imagine Iain this peeled and dry and tell me how many shows would he lose then, how would he not make the top 6 at the olympia, Iain always says he's in shape, but is he is this kind of shape?

 

[b-boy]

You're missing the entire point.
The guys that get like that don't get like that ONCE.
Thats why i say diet isn't a thing at that level. JM wasn't showing up at shows at 6 and then 4 and then 7.
My point was that most dudes are consistent, they get lean (yes others like shelby are freak and get leannnn lean) but the mistakes ARE NOT, "oh shit, i guess i fucked up my diet and I'm 7% this show..." the mistakes are trying to find the magic look in the final days.

Iain was not leaner in NY than he was in Tampa. He and Patrick Tuor just missed the mark of trying to show that level of leaness in the best way (the last 2 days).

And your partly missing the point, if Iain would have been shelby or ronnie lean it would have been very difficult to fuck anything up, there isn't any need for last minute voodoo or hail marys....no "hey let's try and be full as possible" because you know what you look like when you are skinless under those bright stage lights??? BIGGER THAN YOU TRULY ARE. All you needs is just enough glycogen to make your muscles push against your skin, and when your skinless that doesn't take much at all, ask Meadows or ask Starnes.

Also shelby was not in that type of condition every show, meadows was not arnold classic condition EVERY SHOW, close but not every. Ronnie later came in to big and not in that same peeled condition, honestly the most consistent guy is probably flex Lewis.

These pros mistakes are not getting skinless, then having to rely on crazy last minute protocols to make up for not suffering LONG ENOUGH, to peel that last bit of stubborn fat off the top of their glutes, or their kidney area or lower back, just like Dorian use to say....when you can pinch your lower back and it feels paper thin like the back of your hand then YOUR READY, if not, you got more fat and weight to lose.

A lot of these pros put a weight in their head and that's their guiding rod instead of like dorian said dieting until your lower back and problem areas are as thin as the back of your hand. Dorian was also one of the best consistent guys, i also thought Paco Bautista was fairly consistent in his conditioning also.

 

[b-boy]

This thread has gone off topic but I do love this type of discussion as I admittedly never had the mental fortitude to get absolutely peeled, I have had the best coaches but I would mentally break on them, my less than perfect results was not their fault but my own weakness.

 

[juggy38]

Anybody try dusty Hanshaw? I think it would be cool to work with a guy that had GOOD genetics...Not ALIEN genetics (Phil/Ronnie/top pros) but literally forged themselves into a behemoth with steak and slag iron.

@TheOtherOne55 you ever thought about hiring JPs wife? It’s crossed my mind, she’s about $100 a month cheaper..

Alex Azarian got me peeled..RIP. Not for a comp, but when I went to Florida people would stop and double take. (The dudes. Girls give zero fucks about your chest striations)

Anybody work with Mike Israel? He’s blowing up on social media.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

B-boy, i understand what you're saying. "Come in lean as fuck and you don't have to worry."
But if it were that easy, then EVERY BBer would do it.
I have heard JM say the same thing as you, "if you're in fantastic shape, you don't have to do a thing."
But I'm sure you'd agree that maybe 1% of BBers CAN do that.

The reality is that some guys, even at peak conditioning don't have the LOOK to win a show. And they're still top tier pros.
Look at Ramy, he can get competition lean. But he constantly has to play the fullness, flatness, grainy game to find out what look will/wont win the show. You've heard James Hollingshead say it. He has gotten very lean. In the Big Man show last year, he thought coming in full as a house was a good option. The next show, Tampa i believe, he was like 15lbs lighter and dry to the bone. I don't think the amount of BF% changed there. But lots of guys know that their package, even at 5% CANNOT win, so they are trying things to help themselves out.

and @juggy38 Hiring Corinne definitely crossed my mind. She handles JP's diet, so she knows how to transform a guy into a monster.

Mike seems like a great option if you don't want to hit the stage. He isn't a prep coach, he's a body recomp gen pop guy. Im sure his prices are pretty good too.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Jug, I know a couple guys who've worked with Dusty and they love him. He's a no bullshit guy and he gets results.

The Dorian Hamilton crew is popular as hell right now.

A couple others: Kyle Wilkes, Johnny Casalena, Derek Natcher

Anybody try dusty Hanshaw? I think it would be cool to work with a guy that had GOOD genetics...Not ALIEN genetics (Phil/Ronnie/top pros) but literally forged themselves into a behemoth with steak and slag iron.

@TheOtherOne55 you ever thought about hiring JPs wife? It’s crossed my mind, she’s about $100 a month cheaper..

Alex Azarian got me peeled..RIP. Not for a comp, but when I went to Florida people would stop and double take. (The dudes. Girls give zero fucks about your chest striations)

Anybody work with Mike Israel? He’s blowing up on social media.

 

[luki7788]

If I can add something from myself, I do not recommend going to the popular coaches because the only thing we can do from them is a schematic protocol that they give to everyone without exception, with small corrections.
Unless we are a bodybuilder with great potential and we can be a great advertisement for him.