Most you’ve gained

[Elvia1023]

Does the mk 677 cause a ton of water retention? I've never used it or been interested in it.

It can do. For me it puts on as much water retention as dbol. In fact it puts on much more because I am comparing 10-20mg MK to 40-50mg dbol

Obviously I was just joking with him about using that combo but MK can be a very useful. Loads of guys hate MK on here but it can be extremely effective especially for putting on size. Common sense but the more you use the more water retention you will put on. I can't handle more than 10mg due to the fatigue I experience on it. 10mg gives me some nice fullness and increases my appetite. If I dose it higher I get too tired and put on more water retention. The things you have to watch out for on MK-677 are increased heart rate, increased blood pressure and increased blood glucose so if you can mitigate those side effects it will only help matters. It basically gives me all the same side effects of HGH like black tops but with an increased appetite. So if someone is wanting to put on as much size as possible it could be very useful but just be careful with it.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

It can do. For me it puts on as much water retention as dbol. In fact it puts on much more because I am comparing 10-20mg MK to 40-50mg dbol

Obviously I was just joking with him about using that combo but MK can be a very useful. Loads of guys hate MK on here but it can be extremely effective especially for putting on size. Common sense but the more you use the more water retention you will put on. I can't handle more than 10mg due to the fatigue I experience on it. 10mg gives me some nice fullness and increases my appetite. If I dose it higher I get too tired and put on more water retention. The things you have to watch out for on MK-677 are increased heart rate, increased blood pressure and increased blood glucose so if you can mitigate those side effects it will only help matters. It basically gives me all the same side effects of HGH like black tops but with an increased appetite. So if someone is wanting to put on as much size as possible it could be very useful but just be careful with it.

I was using 25mg 1x ed

was at least 6yrs ago and i’ll admit because it was grey market i assumed it was pretty benign lol, nope

 

[Doitagain]

I was using 25mg 1x ed

was at least 6yrs ago and i’ll admit because it was grey market i assumed it was pretty benign lol, nope

Yeah what I assumed when M1T came out

 

[totalrecomp]

I was going to quote the word "permanent" but figured there was no need but perhaps I should have. I wasn't disbelieving he put so much weight on. I have put on 20 pounds of water loading creatine as well when I was younger. I would think most would put on at least 10 pounds especially if they loaded it (15g-25g) with lot's of water (and food) like most brands used to recommend years ago. The difference is I would never call that weight gain permanent muscle.

I am just being OTT because that term has come up a lot on here recently (people debating their gains were permanent) and I don't know why people use it because they must know the definition of "permanent". Even muscle put on using no drugs just eating steaks all day and training hard is not permanent. I get it and he probably just meant "lean muscle" but even going by that someone isn't going to be putting on much using a creatine loading protocol unless he literally stayed on all year (I assume he loaded it for a few weeks at most).

Perhaps moving forward we should all adopt the phrase, in place of "permanent," "kept so far..."
ex. I gained 10lbs on creatine, and I have kept them so far for the last 12 years........

You are spot on Elvia, everything in life is simply borrowed/rented and we don't get to keep any of it, maybe the memories/consciousness(hopefully, at least for me.)

 

[Ace0]

He diets down on bikini calories and loses a fuck ton of muscle, I don't understand why?

To play a bit of devils advocate, isn't his approach sensible for a non-competitor who wants to maximize time spent growing? Doing the extreme cut he probably shaves 8-12 weeks off his cut and can dedicate more time to bulking. Sure the first month or so probably is spent regaining lost tissue but overall he now is spending more time in gaining phases, no?

However I do heed what you, @luki7788 and others say about the importance of training hard when in a deficit, and I very much doubt the training quality and intensity is good when you starve yourself and are losing multiple pounds a week for a prolonged period of time (might make sense in the context of mini-cut, eg., DNP/PSMF for like ten days).

Overall I'm not sure where I stand on the cutting idea, quick cut = more time bulking, long cut = less muscle lost and better training.

 

[b-boy]

To play a bit of devils advocate, isn't his approach sensible for a non-competitor who wants to maximize time spent growing? Doing the extreme cut he probably shaves 8-12 weeks off his cut and can dedicate more time to bulking. Sure the first month or so probably is spent regaining lost tissue but overall he now is spending more time in gaining phases, no?

However I do heed what you, @luki7788 and others say about the importance of training hard when in a deficit, and I very much doubt the training quality and intensity is good when you starve yourself and are losing multiple pounds a week for a prolonged period of time (might make sense in the context of mini-cut, eg., DNP/PSMF for like ten days).

Overall I'm not sure where I stand on the cutting idea, quick cut = more time bulking, long cut = less muscle lost and better training.

If your competing then make your offseason as long as you need, if you need to skip a year competing to put on the necessary size then so be it, but when you do diet down you want to keep as much lean tissue as humanly possible, one reason I think it's best to ....offseason push the food, precontest push the drugs.

 

[Ace0]

If your competing then make your offseason as long as you need, if you need to skip a year competing to put on the necessary size then so be it, but when you do diet down you want to keep as much lean tissue as humanly possible, one reason I think it's best to ....offseason push the food, precontest push the drugs.

So you would say competing more often or doing multiple cuts and bulks would be inferior to say a year and half long off-season? Just bulk slow, keep bf% in check, and mini-cuts as needed so you never have to resort to taking extended time off to cut until show time?

Without beating around the bush I'm looking for advice for myself, I am currently dieting down and want to gain serious size because I've never been able to commit to a long bulk can't even go 12 weeks, let alone 12 months. I'll post up pics sometime within the month to establish a starting point, see if I'm lean enough, and for some accountability to stick with the bulk haha

 

[SouthernMuscle]

So you would say competing more often or doing multiple cuts and bulks would be inferior to say a year and half long off-season? Just bulk slow, keep bf% in check, and mini-cuts as needed so you never have to resort to taking extended time off to cut until show time?

Without beating around the bush I'm looking for advice for myself, I am currently dieting down and want to gain serious size because I've never been able to commit to a long bulk can't even go 12 weeks, let alone 12 months. I'll post up pics sometime within the month to establish a starting point, see if I'm lean enough, and for some accountability to stick with the bulk haha

Your question can’t be answered without knowing why you can’t go 12 weeks bulking

 

[Doitagain]

Your question can’t be answered without knowing why you can’t go 12 weeks bulking

Mirror telling him “you damn lardass“ IIRC.
Bulking stops there.

 

[Ace0]

Your question can’t be answered without knowing why you can’t go 12 weeks bulking

@Doitagain nailed it, former fat boy syndrome.
The suggestions I got before were to start my bulk next time as lean as possible. For two reasons, one it gives me a longer runway to bulk before I “feel” fat. And two so I trust myself more knowing I am capable of getting to very lean states.

The problem that arises, half way through the cut I always felt too stringy because I don’t have enough mass to do a “proper” cut, leaving me in bodybuilding purgatory forever stuck between like 12-15%.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

@Doitagain nailed it, former fat boy syndrome.
The suggestions I got before were to start my bulk next time as lean as possible. For two reasons, one it gives me a longer runway to bulk before I “feel” fat. And two so I trust myself more knowing I am capable of getting to very lean states.

The problem that arises, half way through the cut I always felt too stringy because I don’t have enough mass to do a “proper” cut, leaving me in bodybuilding purgatory forever stuck between like 12-15%.

Extremely relatable but make that 20-30% for me

Swear to god 90% of this whole thing is mental

 

[Ace0]

Extremely relatable but make that 20-30% for me

Swear to god 90% of this whole thing is mental

Hey at least that 30% got you as strong and big as a truck. I’m about half the size and pretty much half the strength

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Hey at least that 30% got you as strong and big as a truck. I’m about half the size and pretty much half the strength

My best advice is don’t do what I did lol I did it out of frustration, impatience and lack of knowledge/discipline could of done the same and probably a lot better if I had just applied myself fully and beaten the mental aspect.

I’m no genetic freak (sadly) im sure following the best protocol for you you can easily achieve as much as I have and probably more mate

 

[SouthernMuscle]

.

@Doitagain nailed it, former fat boy syndrome.
The suggestions I got before were to start my bulk next time as lean as possible. For two reasons, one it gives me a longer runway to bulk before I “feel” fat. And two so I trust myself more knowing I am capable of getting to very lean states.

The problem that arises, half way through the cut I always felt too stringy because I don’t have enough mass to do a “proper” cut, leaving me in bodybuilding purgatory forever stuck between like 12-15%.

Extremely relatable but make that 20-30% for me

Swear to god 90% of this whole thing is mental

idk guys, I think you are REALLY overthinking this. Sometimes the simplest approach is the best.

do you feel healthy?
do you WANT to be bigger?
are you ready mentally and physically to pound calories?

then just fuckin do it

 

[CorgisOnTren]

.


idk guys, I think you are REALLY overthinking this. Sometimes the simplest approach is the best.

do you feel healthy?
do you WANT to be bigger?
are you ready mentally and physically to pound calories?

then just fuckin do it

In this situation, I recommend a coach always. Having an objective eye to keep pushing you beyond your point of comfort can be extremely crucial with that mind set.

 

[Ace0]

.


idk guys, I think you are REALLY overthinking this. Sometimes the simplest approach is the best.

do you feel healthy?
do you WANT to be bigger?
are you ready mentally and physically to pound calories?

then just fuckin do it

You’re right man, I’m not sure about @skylarr123 but for myself I think part of the problem was due to age. I was young so I let emotions dictate everything, a couple weeks into bulking I feel fat so I quit and go back to cutting, a few weeks of that I feel skinny so than I’ll start bulking. I used to post pics in various forums, always got mixed answers on whether to cut or bulk, looked for answers that lined up with my feelings and end up sabotaging long term goals for short term looks and to assuage my emotions.
Hopefully with age came some wisdom and now I stick with it.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

In this situation, I recommend a coach always. Having an objective eye to keep pushing you beyond your point of comfort can be extremely crucial with that mind set.

You’re right man, I’m not sure about @skylarr123 but for myself I think part of the problem was due to age. I was young so I let emotions dictate everything, a couple weeks into bulking I feel fat so I quit and go back to cutting, a few weeks of that I feel skinny so than I’ll start bulking. I used to post pics in various forums, always got mixed answers on whether to cut or bulk, looked for answers that lined up with my feelings and end up sabotaging long term goals for short term looks and to assuage my emotions.
Hopefully with age came some wisdom and now I stick with it.

I have no idea. I can’t relate to this at all. I’m not very good at positive reinforcement, i specialize in the opposite which is not gonna work here

 

[CorgisOnTren]

View attachment 181512

I have no idea. I can’t relate to this at all. I’m not very good at positive reinforcement, i specialize in the opposite which is not gonna work here

I agree with your points for sure man. You need to be able to look at the big picture and long term progress. I was just saying I think if being consistent in one direction for enough time to make actual change is something someone struggles with I’d really recommend a (good) coach to keep them from spinning their wheels.

 

[Ace0]

View attachment 181512

I have no idea. I can’t relate to this at all. I’m not very good at positive reinforcement, i specialize in the opposite which is not gonna work here

Lmao positive or negative reinforcement works for me, but it’s more so that I can’t seem to trust the process. You’re a monster though man, did you ever get fluffy to get there? Did you stay lean all the way up? The different approaches is what gets me, I always think I’m doing the wrong thing.

I agree with your points for sure man. You need to be able to look at the big picture and long term progress. I was just saying I think if being consistent in one direction for enough time to make actual change is something someone struggles with I’d really recommend a (good) coach to keep them from spinning their wheels.

Going to try to buckle down on my own after I finish my cut and see how far I can go without a coach, if I start flip flopping as usual I’ll hire one. Money is in fact an issue for me.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Lmao positive or negative reinforcement works for me, but it’s more so that I can’t seem to trust the process. You’re a monster though man, did you ever get fluffy to get there? Did you stay lean all the way up? The different approaches is what gets me, I always think I’m doing the wrong thing.


Going to try to buckle down on my own after I finish my cut and see how far I can go without a coach, if I start flip flopping as usual I’ll hire one. Money is in fact an issue for me.

Negative only works in person. That‘s what i meant