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Bigger the testosterone dose the bigger you get?

Joltan

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According to science - yes... and as a matter of fact, you don't even need to lift for this to happen. (no joke).

BUT... the level of muscle added has a huge curve of diminishing returns. So you must weight the side effects.

See below for details.
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Below are the typical blood levels of testosterone, based on dosage per week:

1665687493362.png


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Below is a study that compares individuals taking different amounts of testosterone for 12 weeks, and shows how much LBM they gained. The first column is on 25mg testosterone/week, the second column is 50mg, third is 125mg, fourth is 300mg, and fifth column is 600mg test/wk. On 25mg/week they lost an average of 1kg of LBM. On 50mg they put on 0.6kg (avg). On 125mg they put on 3.4kg (avg). On 300mg they put on 5.2kg (avg). And on 600mg they on 7.9kg (avg). As you can see there is a point of diminishing returns after the 125mg dose. There is a massive difference between 50mg and 125mg... The 125mg group added 5.6x as much LBM as the 50mg group. The 600mg group only added 2.3x as much LBM as the 125mg group (despite taking 4.8x more testosterone than the 125mg group). So, this shows that more is better - however, there will be a point of diminishing returns and the side effects/benefits will change dramatically. This correlates with other similar studies that show around 100-200mg test/wk has the best 'bang for your buck' (most LBM added per mg of testosterone added).

1665687775939.png

1665688316712.png

So, changes in fat-free mass and change in quadriceps muscle volume were significantly correlated with blood levels of testosterone.

1665688384463.png






Here is the same study, but using older men 60-75 (other study was men under 60).

1665688470534.png

1665688490531.png

So, this study with older men was very similar. Note the diminishing returns are even greater with older men. Below is a visual of what this looks like on a chart. The percentage gain in LBM goes down the higher your dose of testosterone. However, it does show the higher the dose the more muscle you will put on...
*note that the bottom numbers (test change from baseline), is the ng/dL change (not the dosage/week). 300mg/week is equivalent to around 1,500ng/DL for example.


1665689916516.png
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Below is a study that shows different blood levels of testosterone, and average baseline of muscle:
464ng/DL - has 6.1% more lower lean body mass compared to 348ng/dL, and 1.4% more upper lean body mass
589/DL - has 14.2% more lower lean body mass compared to 348ng/dL, and 5.6% more upper lean body mass
717ng/dL - has 22.1% more lower lean body mass compared to 348ng/dL, and 5.6% more upper lean body mass

1665687402785.png

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Here is a compilation of studies showing LBM increase results from increasing testosterone dose:

1665689114003.png


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Most of the studies above don't take into account if these people were doing resistance training (i.e., weight lifting). So, they basically show what happens just when you take more testosterone. The below study shows what happens when the groups combine with resistance training vs. placebo. (study here- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8637535/)

They divided the subjects into four groups:
  • Placebo with no training
  • Testosterone with no training
  • Placebo with resistance training
  • Testosterone with resistance training
1665689381131.png

Excerpt from study:
"Testosterone was administered in supraphysiological doses (600 mg/week). Testosterone levels were elevated to 2828 - 3244 ng/dL with injections, versus the normal levels of 453 - 667 ng/dL in the placebo group. Testosterone injection, with no training, resulted in an increase in fat-free mass of 3.2 kg. Training alone resulted in an increase in fat-free mass of 2 kg. When training was combined with testosterone injection, fat-free mass gain was 6.1 kg. Quadriceps muscle size increased in a similar fashion in the testosterone + no training group, and the training-only group, while gains were doubled in the testosterone+training group.

The interesting thing here is, when you look at this data, you can see that there was mostly an additive, rather than synergistic, effect of testosterone and training. FFM increased by 3.2 kg with testosterone only. It increased by 2 kg with training only. When you add these two amounts, you get 3.2 + 2 = 5.2 kg, which is reasonably close to the 6.1 kg gain observed in the combined group. In other words, only about 0.9 kg could be explained by a synergistic effect between testosterone and training. You can also see a similar effect for the increase in quadriceps size. The change in quadriceps size was roughly the same in the testosterone-only and training-only groups, and was mostly additive in the combined group. Again, only a small portion of the change in quadriceps size could be explained by a synergistic effect between testosterone and training.

This is similar to the data observed when we look at men and women. The greater testosterone levels in men don't enhance the rate of gains all that much compared to women; it's just that it gives the men a higher baseline to start with, and thus the absolute gains are greater. If there was a strong synergistic effect between testosterone and training, then the relative gains in men would be significantly greater than women, but that's obviously not the case.

A fourth piece of evidence comes from the study by Casaburi and colleagues on men with COPD, which was briefly mentioned earlier. Only leg training was performed in this study. The leg lean mass gains in the combined training+testosterone group was 1.41 kg, which is close to the sum of the gains experienced by the testosterone only group (1.07 kg) and the training only group (0.49 kg). This again suggests the effects of testosterone and resistance training are mostly additive, and not synergistic.

Thus, your testosterone levels affect how much muscle you carry around, whether you train or not. Then, when you begin to train, your responsiveness to training is mostly similar regardless of whether you have low or high testosterone levels. It may be a bit less with lower testosterone, but the biggest impact is on your baseline.

For example, let's say you have a baseline lean mass of 50 kg, and you have a testosterone level in the low end (say around 300 ng/dL). You gain 10% over 6 months, which is 5 kg.


Now, take this same situation, but the person has a baseline testosterone to 600 ng/dL. Your baseline lean mass now may be 52 kg. You still gain 10% over 6 months, which is 5.2 kg. Thus, the relative gain is similar. However, the starting point, and the absolute gain, is larger because of the higher testosterone."

Putting It All Together

It is clear that variations in physiological testosterone levels impact how much muscle you carry, but will have minimal impact on your relative (%) gains. To summarize:

  • Cross-sectional data, dose-response studies, and TRT studies all support variations within the normal range as having an impact on fat-free mass and muscle.
  • Variations in your blood levels of testosterone impact your "base" level of muscle, but has minimal impact on your relative (%) gains. Thus, having higher testosterone levels means having a higher base level of muscle. While the relative gains will be mostly similar, the absolute gains will be higher due to the higher baseline.
  • The impacts of testosterone and resistance training on fat free mass and muscle are mainly additive rather than synergistic.
  • Baseline fat-free mass increases by approximately 0.7 - 1.3 lb or 0.3 - 0.6 kg for every 100 ng/dL increase in physiological testosterone; this is based on averages and between-subject data, so individual outcomes may vary considerably.
  • The impact of testosterone on FFM is attenuated at supraphysiological levels (>1500 ng/dL); baseline FFM increases by about 0.1 to 0.2 kg for every 100 ng/dL for those levels.
 

headtrainer

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It’s been my experience that taking more anabolic steroids does not equate to gaining more size once the body become toxic due to side effects and your receptors become fully saturated. I would compare it to laying out in the sun to get a tan. If you lay out too much in the sun everyday you’ll just burn and not get any darker. In other words, there’s a point of diminishing returns. It’s going to be different for each individual. For example, I can gain more size/strength using 1000 mgs of test weekly than I can with 500 mgs of test. But going up to 2000 mgs of test weekly does nothing positive for me because the side effects are too harsh. In other words, I gain more from using 1 gram of test than I do using 2 grams of test per week. Some people can gain a little more size using 2 grams of test per week, but the higher you go, the less you get out of it. Increasing hormone dosages can be compared to increasing training volume. You get the most results for your efforts from the first 3-12 work sets. After that, you get less returns for your efforts.
 

Cerberus777

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I don't think there's a ceiling for effectiveness, just how much food you can eat and side effects you can handle. Now if you triple your dosage you can only gain so fast.
 

marssel

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Ok ,I hear that every steroid has a point where it stops working regardless of how high the dose is , however ,I hear with testosterone it keeps working better the more you take , now is that true ? I mean you hear guys running 4 grams of test a week, but you don’t hear that with other steroids , so is testosterone the magic steroid that works better with higher doses? now I’m sure the sides are worse obviously the higher the dose , but the results are better the higher you go ,what do you guys think ? Is that true in your opinion?
Who is taking 4,000mg of test a week? 1/2 that maybe 1/4 more likely
 

buck

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All thing being equal, more gear can add some more growth. But if the body had plateaued out on the food and training then more gear would probably not add significantly more muscle, i don't think. More then 1 variable will need to be changed with food being the driving force. Eating and absorbing food is one of the biggest limiting factor i think as people can up their dose considerably more then they can their rate of absorption of food.
 

m87r

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Ok ,I hear that every steroid has a point where it stops working regardless of how high the dose is , however ,I hear with testosterone it keeps working better the more you take , now is that true ? I mean you hear guys running 4 grams of test a week, but you don’t hear that with other steroids , so is testosterone the magic steroid that works better with higher doses? now I’m sure the sides are worse obviously the higher the dose , but the results are better the higher you go ,what do you guys think ? Is that true in your opinion?
People does 3-4+ grams from Test because it is the AAS with the least side effects. So if they feel they need 5-7 grams to grow then atleast half comes from Test because doing 3-4+ grams from an other AAS will bring more side effects.
 

luki7788

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in fact, the only problem with such high doses Test is the aromatization that is hard to control - personally, if I had to take the 4g test, I would rather replace half of it with EQ, i.e. 2g test + 2g EQ - the anabolic effect would be very similar and it would be easier to control the aromatization
 

Fit2Serve

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ive ramped up to 2gm of test only and i felt great. looked amazing. fat melted off me.
got my wifey pregnant on that dose too.
wasnt on any ai or estrogen blockers. ONLY test.
 

juggy38

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Aromatization is the test problem, but primo can help this. Run 1:1 test primo and GH and just slowly crank the dose till you run out of money. When it’s time to get lean drop primo and replace with mast and tren
 

Muay Thai

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I can see that most do not fully understand what the author of the post meant - I think he asked if a larger dose would do more if all other aspects such as training, diet, regeneration, supplementation are maxed out - the answer is one - yes, it will give more in such a situation
perhaps I misread but what I said nonetheless is factual regardless if its answering the OP question
 

pistonpump

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Besides eating enough to utilize the high doses... Sleep is going to be the big factor imo whether u actually grow. Higher doses of androgens work the heart and nervous system making it harder to get good rest ime. If your not sleeping alot youre not going to repair and grow. If sleep, training, health, and food are on track then higher doses will be more effective... otherwise it's overkill
 

headtrainer

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in fact, the only problem with such high doses Test is the aromatization that is hard to control - personally, if I had to take the 4g test, I would rather replace half of it with EQ, i.e. 2g test + 2g EQ - the anabolic effect would be very similar and it would be easier to control the aromatization
Exactly! 2 grams of test is not going to provide the same muscle building effects of combining the same dosage consisting of test, Tren and anadrol.
 

VaginaBoob89

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I can see that most do not fully understand what the author of the post meant - I think he asked if a larger dose would do more if all other aspects such as training, diet, regeneration, supplementation are maxed out - the answer is one - yes, it will give more in such a situation
People (Americans especially) need to take the time to virtue signal about the values of eating and training in every single gear thread instead of actually understanding and answering the question.
 

Cito33189

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The more testosterone I took the bigger my dick got.
When I was slamming gear over a G of test was huge and slamming bitches . No balls though.

Not joking very serious.
Dramatic difference. When I finally retired and came off everything I let my levels crash. I was hoping my doctor would prescribe trt. He didn’t but man my shit shrunk. Uncomfortable feeling it was. I went to a clinic paid out of pocket and my shit grew like a weed.
 

VaginaBoob89

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The more testosterone I took the bigger my dick got.
When I was slamming gear over a G of test was huge and slamming bitches . No balls though.

Not joking very serious.
Dramatic difference. When I finally retired and came off everything I let my levels crash. I was hoping my doctor would prescribe trt. He didn’t but man my shit shrunk. Uncomfortable feeling it was. I went to a clinic paid out of pocket and my shit grew like a weed.

Not gonna post pics, but yes. Test and trenbolone definitely have a short term impact on dick size. Mostly girth but also somewhat length. Doesn't seem unfathomable, androgen/dht receptor distribution heterogeneity and all that.
 

Tomgrass

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Not gonna post pics, but yes. Test and trenbolone definitely have a short term impact on dick size. Mostly girth but also somewhat length. Doesn't seem unfathomable, androgen/dht receptor distribution heterogeneity and all that.
You heard that Luki??? Honestly man fuck this bodybuilding - with that amount of test you take soon you will be a millionare doing porn 😁
 

jaxino

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Not gonna post pics, but yes. Test and trenbolone definitely have a short term impact on dick size. Mostly girth but also somewhat length. Doesn't seem unfathomable, androgen/dht receptor distribution heterogeneity and all that.
Imho mainly Masteron makes my pee pee grow more.

All this Test talking makes me want to drop EQ and just slam siringes of Sust + Tren A....
 

Necrias

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Imho mainly Masteron makes my pee pee grow more.

All this Test talking makes me want to drop EQ and just slam siringes of Sust + Tren A....

I thought I was crazy, but I swear my weiner grew on mast/proviron. Prob only a half inch, but I will take all the help I can get!! hahaha
 

marssel

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Imho mainly Masteron makes my pee pee grow more.

All this Test talking makes me want to drop EQ and just slam siringes of Sust + Tren A....
It’s so funny all the haters say it shrinks our dicks bc we’ve been busy fucking their girls. Balls yes but you don’t pound couze with your sack.
 

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