blood work......help/advice plz

[vestal]

So i get blood work back. Im 43 5-11 215# rougly 13% bf at moment. ON Test Cyp at 500-600 mg week, nothing else.
Test = 1600
Cholesterol = 262 (this is what concerns me!)
LDL = 197
HGB = 18.8
HCT = 54.7
WBC = 4.2

For the most part everything else was normal. Doctor wants me off of test and thinks that is y hgb and chol is so high. I have been eating alot and not all that great. NO cardio at the moment. So Im really bummed if i have to come off. Question is; can i bring down the chol and hemblobin to safe levels with out getting off test. and or shld i consider lowering test and maybe adding in tren or deca or eq instead?????

 

[swim15]

What is the reference range on testosterone? Assuming it's a normal serum test, your test is almost bunk- when did you do your last injection in relation to the blood draw and what dose?

Yes you can correct those numbers likely. Clean up your diet, add cardio, supplement with fiber, a generous dose of fish oil a couple times a day, curcumin, and berberine and get levels retested in 6-8 weeks. It's not like those numbers will kill you, just don't want them there for the long term.

 

[vestal]

Ref range was 175-781
injected about 3-4 days of 250mg b4 blood work

 

[warlock]

You also need to donate to lower crit levels.

Look into citrus bergamot too.

 

[nothuman]

So i get blood work back. Im 43 5-11 215# rougly 13% bf at moment. ON Test Cyp at 500-600 mg week, nothing else.

Test = 1600

Cholesterol = 262 (this is what concerns me!)

LDL = 197

HGB = 18.8

HCT = 54.7

WBC = 4.2



For the most part everything else was normal. Doctor wants me off of test and thinks that is y hgb and chol is so high. I have been eating alot and not all that great. NO cardio at the moment. So Im really bummed if i have to come off. Question is; can i bring down the chol and hemblobin to safe levels with out getting off test. and or shld i consider lowering test and maybe adding in tren or deca or eq instead?????

It's very concerning that you are more worried about your total cholesterol than your hematocrit. Total cholesterol is a paper cut compared to high hematocrit and hemoglobin. Get test down to maybe 100mg, donate blood yesterday, overhaul your diet, and do INTENSE cardio 4-6x per week. You need to get that under control before thinking about using other AAS. It would have helped if you got your inflammation levels tested. Your blood cell numbers are only going to increase if you don't follow these steps. Follow them and you'll be ok.

 

[kcameron13]

It's very concerning that you are more worried about your total cholesterol than your hematocrit. Total cholesterol is a paper cut compared to high hematocrit and hemoglobin. Get test down to maybe 100mg, donate blood yesterday, overhaul your diet, and do INTENSE cardio 4-6x per week. You need to get that under control before thinking about using other AAS. It would have helped if you got your inflammation levels tested. Your blood cell numbers are only going to increase if you don't follow these steps. Follow them and you'll be ok.

This for sure!
I'd look at doing a double blood donation, you can go every 16 weeks with that. It will help get the levels down a bit faster. But if he was overly concerned with your levels he would have prescribed therapeutic phlebotomy to get the levels down even faster. So just make sure to donate regularly to keep numbers down. Diet is certainly something to look at and tighten up a bit and lowering the test should help bring down the cholesterol issue. Test itself isn't as impactful on cholesterol as DHT drugs are, so cardio and tightening up diet will have the biggest impact.

 

[vestal]

thanks, appreciate the help! I have an appt. fri to donate blood; I'll start cardio and clen up diet adn drop my test down to 150 a week, add in fish oil.

 

[nothuman]

thanks, appreciate the help! I have an appt. fri to donate blood; I'll start cardio and clen up diet adn drop my test down to 150 a week, add in fish oil.

Wise move. This is what I would do myself, having also dealt with rising HCT numbers and these are the things that got them under control. Your cholesterol and lipids will improve as well

 

[Bigunitny]

Test is underdosed . Donate blood. Buy garlic take 1 clove in morning 1 clove at night . 6 1200mg fish oil .Go buy cholestoff from the cvs / pharmacy near you. Begin cardio start with a reasonable amount 15-20 mins a day. And eat fiber oats, grains and healthy fats . Drink 1 glass of red wine a night . Test at that level should not effect the cholesterol / lipid panel in such a deleterious fashion. I will say that in your current state I would absoultely scale down taper down your test dosage while attempting to control the wheel. The reason being your body is in a state of pseudodistress . By taking on excess testesterone in this state you will heighten the chances for a cardiac episode. I hope that helped Also what is your triglyceride count ?
If you take tren at any dose right now you will fuck your lipid panel up even worse SERIOUS AND REAL EFFECT NOT MY OPINION * do not add any other AAS at all. The best way to honestly do it is to come off with a thourough pct (how long have you been on?) another way 2nd option but not as great as the one i listed above is to come down to a safe trt dose for 8 weeks minimum and revaluate bloodwork in some cases bringing your exogenous intake of test down will bring positive consequences to your lipid panel. Right now your poor lifestyle from a cardiostandpoint coupled with a poor diet are contributing to an already procholesrerol environment in your body. On top of this your liver is saying make more cholestrol carrying proteins ie. ldl and decrease hdl making for a very poor environment for your heart and circulation


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[vestal]

OK Big. thanks for the reply.
Tri count is 89

Here's the thing that bothers me and it may just be hereditary or whatever but 500-600 mg of test is not alot! Im not nearly as big as i wld like to be! So there fore am I fucked? Do i get my bloods under control and then what?

 

[Bigunitny]

But i know for a fact that 500-600 will set the liver off to make bad ldl cholesterol and drop hdl . If you come off after a month the numbers will improve dramatically but the rest is your hands in terms of following my advice. If you stay on 600 and keep ur body in that state you will increase chances for a cariac episode will it happen no one knows. Its like crossing the street with a blidfold on


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[drkimcrawford]

Great advice and here is more

It's very concerning that you are more worried about your total cholesterol than your hematocrit. Total cholesterol is a paper cut compared to high hematocrit and hemoglobin. Get test down to maybe 100mg, donate blood yesterday, overhaul your diet, and do INTENSE cardio 4-6x per week. You need to get that under control before thinking about using other AAS. It would have helped if you got your inflammation levels tested. Your blood cell numbers are only going to increase if you don't follow these steps. Follow them and you'll be ok.

This is excellent advice. You want your HGB to be 17 or less as a rule of thumb. Don't panic-your HCT is not through the roof but as NH says go donate! You should be down where you want to be with 2 full pints off. You can go as often as once a week with a pint per trip. Then T doesn't need to plummet from where you are to 100 mg, you can go down 100 mg per week and 200 mg will be fine. (LOL the Dr saying you can have more T than the bros)....

Now let's talk about that LDL. A SERUM LDL means absolutely nothing. You need an NMR Lipoprotein profile to see the size of LDL particles and the density of them. Chances are that you have too many small (sticky) LDL particles and yes this is worsened with T too high but not as much as everyone thinks.

AN LP-PLA2 is warranted here too-are you placquing or not-that makes a big therapeutic difference.

Furthermore, even when we (A4M docs) and Preventive Cardiologists SEE too many small LDL particles we fix the physiologic environment-eliminate oxidative stress, inflammation, glycation, high cort and excess T and voila, we see LP-PLA2's return to normal.


Vestal-Your doctor is not equipped to "deal with" you as usual. You need an A4M doc who is familiar with bodybuilder physiology and habits. Just dropping the dose of T will drop the LDL a LITTLE but not enough for your doctor who will then want to Rx statins, the dirty little secret about statins is that they have more of an effect on medium to large LDL particles!

Good luck!
Dr.Kim
PS I can fix all of this with labs and a consult-or can refer you to an A4M doc in your area if you want to contact me via my website.

 

[thewizkid]

So i get blood work back. Im 43 5-11 215# rougly 13% bf at moment. ON Test Cyp at 500-600 mg week, nothing else.
Test = 1600
Cholesterol = 262 (this is what concerns me!)
LDL = 197
HGB = 18.8
HCT = 54.7
WBC = 4.2

For the most part everything else was normal. Doctor wants me off of test and thinks that is y hgb and chol is so high. I have been eating alot and not all that great. NO cardio at the moment. So Im really bummed if i have to come off. Question is; can i bring down the chol and hemblobin to safe levels with out getting off test. and or shld i consider lowering test and maybe adding in tren or deca or eq instead?????

1600 test is like 300mg a week numbers, isn't 500mg supposed to get you to 2500? if you drop down to 150mg a week with your gear like you said later in this thread you'd be suppressed and at like 500 test level? which is natty

 

[Stewie]

This is excellent advice. You want your HGB to be 17 or less as a rule of thumb. Don't panic-your HCT is not through the roof but as NH says go donate! You should be down where you want to be with 2 full pints off. You can go as often as once a week with a pint per trip. Then T doesn't need to plummet from where you are to 100 mg, you can go down 100 mg per week and 200 mg will be fine. (LOL the Dr saying you can have more T than the bros)....

Now let's talk about that LDL. A SERUM LDL means absolutely nothing. You need an NMR Lipoprotein profile to see the size of LDL particles and the density of them. Chances are that you have too many small (sticky) LDL particles and yes this is worsened with T too high but not as much as everyone thinks.

AN LP-PLA2 is warranted here too-are you placquing or not-that makes a big therapeutic difference.

Furthermore, even when we (A4M docs) and Preventive Cardiologists SEE too many small LDL particles we fix the physiologic environment-eliminate oxidative stress, inflammation, glycation, high cort and excess T and voila, we see LP-PLA2's return to normal.


Vestal-Your doctor is not equipped to "deal with" you as usual. You need an A4M doc who is familiar with bodybuilder physiology and habits. Just dropping the dose of T will drop the LDL a LITTLE but not enough for your doctor who will then want to Rx statins, the dirty little secret about statins is that they have more of an effect on medium to large LDL particles!

Good luck!
Dr.Kim
PS I can fix all of this with labs and a consult-or can refer you to an A4M doc in your area if you want to contact me via my website.

An anemia panel with saturation % and serum iron would be advisable if recommending a therapeutic phlebotomy once per week. There's no mention of hemochromatosis to where there's validation of a weekly phelbot. Iron deficiency is not a fun place to be in.

 

[drkimcrawford]

Misunderstanding

An anemia panel would be advisable if recommending a therapeutic phlebotomy once per week. There's no mention of hemochromatosis to where there's validation of a weekly phelbot. Iron deficiency is not a fun place to be in.

Hey Stewie,how are you?
Actually I said he needs two pints off and he can do one a week for two weeks. But OOPS- I didn't finish my thought there so thanks for pointing this out as I sure wouldn't want guys donating once per week!

AFTER the two pints are off THEN q 3-4 months will not put anyone into Fe deficiency as you know. Indeed if we know that his H/H was this high pre-high-T then hemochomatosis would need to be r/o. Thanks again for the pick up on my post.

Best,
Dr.Kim

 

[nothuman]

Hey Stewie,how are you?
Actually I said he needs two pints off and he can do one a week for two weeks. But OOPS- I didn't finish my thought there so thanks for pointing this out as I sure wouldn't want guys donating once per week!

AFTER the two pints are off THEN q 3-4 months will not put anyone into Fe deficiency as you know. Indeed if we know that his H/H was this high pre-high-T then hemochomatosis would need to be r/o. Thanks again for the pick up on my post.

Best,
Dr.Kim

My ferritin is low from frequent donations. Do you have any advice on bringing it up without also increasing hemoglobin/hematocrit? I've been taking dessicated liver tabs as per Stewie's advice and won't know my Fe level again until 12/1.

And thanks for your post above. I was going to mention to the original poster about the NMR lipoprofile test but thought it would fly over everyone's heads.

 

[drkimcrawford]

Hi NotHuman

My ferritin is low from frequent donations. Do you have any advice on bringing it up without also increasing hemoglobin/hematocrit? I've been taking dessicated liver tabs as per Stewie's advice and won't know my Fe level again until 12/1.

And thanks for your post above. I was going to mention to the original poster about the NMR lipoprofile test but thought it would fly over everyone's heads.

HI!
Thank YOU for commenting about the NMR profile-I knew YOU knew about it, Stewie knows and maybe we can all keep hammering this as it is NUTS that guys post their LDL'S, right?

Was your Ferritin "really low" as in 50 or below? Do you know what your MCV was?

If a Ferritin is low enough to lower the MCV then you can safely take FeSo4 caps-OTC-ask Pharmacist-2x/day and this will not up your H/H-this will just normalize it. Now if you do this and are taking the dose of T that upped the H/H in the FIRST place,once ferritin is repleted then the T will use that iron to then make the H/H too high again. Bottom line is you are safe from too high of an H/H if you are on a dose of T you know NOT to cause jumps in your H/H.

If you get in a bind labwise contact me-I think I can get an H/H and CBC on you for like $20.

Take care,
Dr.Kim

 

[nothuman]

HI!
Thank YOU for commenting about the NMR profile-I knew YOU knew about it, Stewie knows and maybe we can all keep hammering this as it is NUTS that guys post their LDL'S, right?

Was your Ferritin "really low" as in 50 or below? Do you know what your MCV was?

If a Ferritin is low enough to lower the MCV then you can safely take FeSo4 caps-OTC-ask Pharmacist-2x/day and this will not up your H/H-this will just normalize it. Now if you do this and are taking the dose of T that upped the H/H in the FIRST place,once ferritin is repleted then the T will use that iron to then make the H/H too high again. Bottom line is you are safe from too high of an H/H if you are on a dose of T you know NOT to cause jumps in your H/H.

If you get in a bind labwise contact me-I think I can get an H/H and CBC on you for like $20.

Take care,
Dr.Kim

MCV was 86.9 and Ferritin was 30. This was 2.5 months ago

So this Feso4 is available at the pharmacy counter OTC? I'm going to look it up and will get it tomorrow if it's a good idea.

And that is great to know I can get H/H and CBC for only $20. I live in the state of NY so directlabs isn't an option for me.

 

[drkimcrawford]

Hi NH

HI!OK so your MCV was low and your Ferritin was super low. NO issue with taking Ferrous sulfate 325 mg 2x/day with meals-none.

Here it is: https://www.drugs.com/imprints/-21385.html

And it is over the counter-used to be Rx, now OTC

And YOU cannot get a CBC for $20 but I CAN so since you have always been so super sweet to me that means I'll get it for you if you want it-just contact me via my website-go to contact and click "for DrKim" and just ask me when you need it. This offer is applicable to you only at this point in time.


You will be fine as long as the T is under control. A lot of guys worry about iron overload and it's actually hard to do!

Take care,
Dr.Kim

 

[nothuman]

HI!OK so your MCV was low and your Ferritin was super low. NO issue with taking Ferrous sulfate 325 mg 2x/day with meals-none.

Here it is: https://www.drugs.com/imprints/-21385.html

And it is over the counter-used to be Rx, now OTC

And YOU cannot get a CBC for $20 but I CAN so since you have always been so super sweet to me that means I'll get it for you if you want it-just contact me via my website-go to contact and click "for DrKim" and just ask me when you need it. This offer is applicable to you only at this point in time.


You will be fine as long as the T is under control. A lot of guys worry about iron overload and it's actually hard to do!

Take care,
Dr.Kim

Thank you very much for the offer! Stewie told me a little about ferrous sulphate a while back but I didn't end up buying it. I instead opted for the Dessicated Liver Tabs, which I will continue to take. I might order ferrous sulphate as well tomorrow.

Since we are talking about ferritin, I feel my stamina isn't as good as it should be, considering I do a lot of intense cardio. Do you feel my ferritin could be the reason why? My resting pulse is also a little higher than I want it to be as well (usually 75-80).