Blood work results, time to rethink things?

[MR. BMJ]

In this case, i'd leave water/fluid alone without changing it, as electrolytes are in the normal range. By changing it now, you will just add another variable to the equation. Your Hct is about where it needs to come down. You could donate, but that seems to make things worse for some guys. If you eat a lot of red meat, you could cut that out for awhile and see if it helps. If you have any sleep apnea, that could be a culprit. You could drop the test down to what Emeric does at 10mg/d for awhile and see if that helps. Taking something like TrueNutrition's IP6 (screw me, I don't see it there anymore though???) at night can help chelate iron. Good job on the cardio, i'd keep that up for sure.

Others will have tips as well. I would not worry about your elevated liver values.

By any chance, do you live at a higher altitude?

Any other prescription drugs?

 

[nicocujo]

Like said before, kidneys look good, liver enzymes aren't crazy high. Could be from alcohol or any oral supplements you take. Take something for it. The liver is very resilient.
It could be sleep apnea, I have it, but my H&H are good. Drop your test dosage and retest your blood in 6-8 weeks.

 

[KillerStack]

A grapefruit a day as mentioned by Dante might help HCT? I mentioned this to a friend who was high and it actually came down by next blood test.

 

[heavyhitter]

I don't have apnea and I'm slightly under 5'8 and 250...

You’re the exception then, not the norm

 

[heavyhitter]

In this case, i'd leave water/fluid alone without changing it, as electrolytes are in the normal range. By changing it now, you will just add another variable to the equation. Your Hct is about where it needs to come down. You could donate, but that seems to make things worse for some guys. If you eat a lot of red meat, you could cut that out for awhile and see if it helps. If you have any sleep apnea, that could be a culprit. You could drop the test down to what Emeric does at 10mg/d for awhile and see if that helps. Taking something like TrueNutrition's IP6 (screw me, I don't see it there anymore though???) at night can help chelate iron. Good job on the cardio, i'd keep that up for sure.

Others will have tips as well. I would not worry about your elevated liver values.

By any chance, do you live at a higher altitude?

Any other prescription drugs?

Ya he hadn’t posted his electrolytes test when I mentioned that. He is in range so I wouldn’t change it

 

[MR. BMJ]

Ya he hadn’t posted his electrolytes test when I mentioned that. He is in range so I wouldn’t change it

Haha, no worries, I seen that as well

 

[Doctordave42]

Had BP taken last week and it was higee than normal for no apparent reason. So scheduled a blood work up and just got the results back.

A bit of history. Been on Professional Muscle for 20 plus years. Been training since 1985. Been juicing most of the past 25 years cruising and blasting but gradually winding down the last 4-5 years to 100-200 mg TRT.

5 foot 8, 235 in good shape, took me literally 15 years to get to over 225 but I did with very reasonable doses even while competing. At my most extreme never when over 1,500 MGs total weekly.

Nunbers have gradually risen over the years blood-wise and they decrease when I blood dump, which I'll do 2-3 times per year.

This latest jump (HCR and Hemo both up from June of this year significantly) while my doses have been very low, is very concerning.

I have a great diet, take every supplement for health imaginable (beet root, arginine, baby aspirin etc) yet this still happened. I drink 1.5-2 gallons water a day.

My main thoughts is this jump related to my weight-height ratio or my bare minimum androgen consumption? What is causing it?

Have dabbled with a few weeks here and there of GH the last few months, but nothing consistent

Any thoughts and or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I have the same issue and a very similar scenario. Was fine until ten years ago. Then Crit and Hgb crept up despite many 12+ weeks off and lower doses in the 2-400mg range. I found some information about hereditary hemochromatosis and how a significant of white/caucasian males have a genetic predisposition to see a ramping up of these numbers. Solid information and research. Bummer for me though, at 55, as I am now hanging with Hematocrit in the 52-57 range and an elevated Hemoglobin level as well. My very forward thinking Osteopathic Physician recommended taking Nattokinase, a probiotic from the Chinese/Asian culture found consistently in their diets. After our culture was dumfounded with their incredible low rate of stroke/cerebrovascular events, we finally discovered that this element in their diet significantly reduced Rouleau Formation, which is the adherence of RBCs to each other and subsequent clotting (stroke, ischemia, etc).
I have been taking 100mg daily for two years. MY numbers are still higher than I would like, but breathing is better and this is a HELL of a safer option to aspirin and especially anticoagulant therapy. Doing therapeutic plebotomy 2-4 times per year has also been part of my plan, but my doc and I do wonder if this is actually causing a perceived drop in what the AAS are driving toward doing. More research on this needed and I am looking into it. Hope this gives you something to consider. Just my 2 cents. Be well

 

[Doctordave42]

View attachment 149732

I would be interested in your glomerular filtration rate (GFR) as well. Did you get that number?

 

[Rudygreg]

I have the same issue and a very similar scenario. Was fine until ten years ago. Then Crit and Hgb crept up despite many 12+ weeks off and lower doses in the 2-400mg range. I found some information about hereditary hemochromatosis and how a significant of white/caucasian males have a genetic predisposition to see a ramping up of these numbers. Solid information and research. Bummer for me though, at 55, as I am now hanging with Hematocrit in the 52-57 range and an elevated Hemoglobin level as well. My very forward thinking Osteopathic Physician recommended taking Nattokinase, a probiotic from the Chinese/Asian culture found consistently in their diets. After our culture was dumfounded with their incredible low rate of stroke/cerebrovascular events, we finally discovered that this element in their diet significantly reduced Rouleau Formation, which is the adherence of RBCs to each other and subsequent clotting (stroke, ischemia, etc).
I have been taking 100mg daily for two years. MY numbers are still higher than I would like, but breathing is better and this is a HELL of a safer option to aspirin and especially anticoagulant therapy. Doing therapeutic plebotomy 2-4 times per year has also been part of my plan, but my doc and I do wonder if this is actually causing a perceived drop in what the AAS are driving toward doing. More research on this needed and I am looking into it. Hope this gives you something to consider. Just my 2 cents. Be well

I do phlebotomies at home on myself. Only concern with elevated liver enzymes would be excess iron deposits which can stress liver out. Have you had Factor V Leiden or Jak-2 mutation?

 

[heavyhitter]

I do phlebotomies at home on myself. Only concern with elevated liver enzymes would be excess iron deposits which can stress liver out. Have you had Factor V Leiden or Jak-2 mutation?

We’re getting into pretty deep water here for something I can almost guarantee is apnea

 

[Rudygreg]

Might be, but at least we can rule out every possibility if it's not. I see large guys throw clots all the time with idiopathic polycythemia until we work them up for predisposing factors. RIP John Meadows
He had a blood disorder on top of years of gear use.

 

[heavyhitter]

Might be, but at least we can rule out every possibility if it's not. I see large guys throw clots all the time with idiopathic polycythemia until we work them up for predisposing factors. RIP John Meadows
He had a blood disorder on top of years of gear use.

I was recently biopsied for polycythemia due to high rbc, crit, and slightly elevated white cell count. Turned out negative. Sleep study then determined severe apnea. 5 months later everything is in range with cpap use

 

[Reno911]

As heavyhitter has said, the CPAP will make a huge difference. Regardless of big guys that say they don't have sleep apnea almost anyone with a neck bigger than 17.5 inches will have some form of sleep apnea (whether you're a fat ass or muscular). Notice all the fat fucks at the airport carrying their CPAP's.

I've had mine tested at 235 and 280+ and both registered in the severe range. I would have to drop to probably 200 for it to subside. Prior to CPAP use, my hematocrit was usually 55-56 and I would dump 2-3x a year. After CPAP it's usually anywhere from 49-54 (Usually under 52). I've been tested years ago for the clotting disorders but I still try not to let it creep too high. Now I usually dump about once every 9-12 months.

Interestingly my GP was never concerned with my hematocrit at 55-56. I had to kind of nudge him pretty good to test me for the clotting disorders.

 

[Kaladryn]

You’re the exception then, not the norm

SOME people get apnea from being big but a lot do not, I definitely wouldn't call it the norm. If you sleep with a parnter(s) they should know if you have sleep apnea or not.

You can get that RBC down in a couple of months if you do 10-12mg/day, I recommend 12. Your total test will still be 800ish and your hematocrit will normalize VERY quickly, trust me.

 

[Rudygreg]

I was recently biopsied for polycythemia due to high rbc, crit, and slightly elevated white cell count. Turned out negative. Sleep study then determined severe apnea. 5 months later everything is in range with cpap use

How long do you think you had it for? Years?

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

This is the reason why I haven't run anything in 3 months now. Well 70- 120 mgs trt. I was sewing in a 10 mg Depot one day of the week a while back. I think some underground stuff gave me an infection so I'm using prescription stuff now. Regardless I want to start putting my gear sterilizing it in the oven 180° for 30 minutes with a pin in it.

My bun was the highest this past lab results at 30. And my ATL was 105 the highest it's ever been

I cannot pinpoint what caused it . I'm also been taken in 250 g of protein a day for 20 years now. On non resistance training days lowering protein some. That said if your kidneys are healthy I've heard it doesn't matter. I've taken up to 400 g of protein a day while growing natural, non hormonal. And 400 plus grams of protein a day and contest preparation well this has been 10 plus years ago

 

[hevi-head]

Nope. Bodyweight actually went up a bit due to increased recovery. I’m not overweight by any means in the bodyfat department. But I’m heavier than my body wants to be, and my neck is 19 inches. They say anyone with a 17 inch or larger neck likely has apnea. The improvement was all cpap. I feel so much better too.

It did wonders for me too. I kept putting it off and putting it off. Finally got so miserable I couldn’t take it anymore

 

[heavyhitter]

How long do you think you had it for? Years?

Definitely for years. I’ve. Snored bad enough for the last 12-14 years That I’ve had to transition to sleeping in my stomach so I don’t wake my wife. And in the last 4 years or so she has started telling me that I sound like I’m choking in my sleep, and I hiccup a lot while sleeping. Finally got the slee study done and had something like 90 apnea’s in 4 hours

 

[Rudygreg]

This is the reason why I haven't run anything in 3 months now. Well 70- 120 mgs trt. I was sewing in a 10 mg Depot one day of the week a while back. I think some underground stuff gave me an infection so I'm using prescription stuff now. Regardless I want to start putting my gear sterilizing it in the oven 180° for 30 minutes with a pin in it.

My bun was the highest this past lab results at 30. And my ATL was 105 the highest it's ever been

I cannot pinpoint what caused it . I'm also been taken in 250 g of protein a day for 20 years now. On non resistance training days lowering protein some. That said if your kidneys are healthy I've heard it doesn't matter. I've taken up to 400 g of protein a day while growing natural, non hormonal. And 400 plus grams of protein a day and contest preparation well this has been 10 plus years ago

As far as elevated BUN, you were a bit dehydrated. Were you fasted?

 

[Rudygreg]

Definitely for years. I’ve. Snored bad enough for the last 12-14 years That I’ve had to transition to sleeping in my stomach so I don’t wake my wife. And in the last 4 years or so she has started telling me that I sound like I’m choking in my sleep, and I hiccup a lot while sleeping. Finally got the slee study done and had something like 90 apnea’s in 4 hour

Definitely for years. I’ve. Snored bad enough for the last 12-14 years That I’ve had to transition to sleeping in my stomach so I don’t wake my wife. And in the last 4 years or so she has started telling me that I sound like I’m choking in my sleep, and I hiccup a lot while sleeping. Finally got the slee study done and had something like 90 apnea’s in 4 hours

Yikes! Does the apparatus you wear bother you? My pops refuses to wear the mask.