• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
esquel
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
1-SWEDISH-PEPTIDE-CO
YMSApril21065
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
tjk
advertise1
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Building Big legs with Bad knees

Brock456

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
1,229
Is it possible? Or if not big, at least respectable legs?

My knees are shot. Dr said patellar tendinitis, went to an orthopedist and he said degenerative cartilage behind the knee. Gave me cortisone and recommended PT.

I’ve tried knee sleeves, helps a little. But even 135 on the bar hurts my knees like crippling pain.
 
Is it possible? Or if not big, at least respectable legs?

My knees are shot. Dr said patellar tendinitis, went to an orthopedist and he said degenerative cartilage behind the knee. Gave me cortisone and recommended PT.

I’ve tried knee sleeves, helps a little. But even 135 on the bar hurts my knees like crippling pain.
Look into Milo’s giant sets.

After a through warm-up, the first round giant set is effectively a second warm-up. My giant set exercise selection hamstring, quad isolation, compound movement, hamstring, quad isolation, compound movement.

Very sparing on the knees. Lots of volume.
 
Also, banded compound lifts are gentler on the knees. Although the weights lifted are heavier, the bands provide support at the bottom.
 
See if you can improve your knees first of all.

Try stretching your rectus femoris.

Kneel down on the ground and lean back. Keep working on that until you can lay your shoulders on the ground in that position.

When I first did this my legs quads were sore from the stretching. Seemed to be the only thing that eventually alleviated the stress on my patellar tendon and allowed it to heal.
 
See if you can improve your knees first of all.

Try stretching your rectus femoris.

Kneel down on the ground and lean back. Keep working on that until you can lay your shoulders on the ground in that position.

When I first did this my legs quads were sore from the stretching. Seemed to be the only thing that eventually alleviated the stress on my patellar tendon and allowed it to heal.
Thanks I’ll try that
 
Look into Milo’s giant sets.

After a through warm-up, the first round giant set is effectively a second warm-up. My giant set exercise selection hamstring, quad isolation, compound movement, hamstring, quad isolation, compound movement.

Very sparing on the knees. Lots of volume.
I think he does these with Regan Grimes. I’ll check it out
 
If barbell squats hurt then don't do them. They're one of the worst movements for hypertrophy for most guys so you've likely been wasting time with them anyway.

Hack squats are worth trying but some find they make their knee pain worse. If your knees can handle them they could be a great tool to build your legs.

If you can leg press pain-free then stick with that - many great sets of legs have been built on leg press. Vary your stance, positioning on platform, do bilateral and unilateral, do half your sets on one leg press and the other half on another, etc.

Building big legs that are visually impressive is mainly about the quads and adductors. Leg press can take care of the quad part but you'll have to put a lot of work in on an adduction machine with heavy weight to build those up.

It's hard to say what the potential for your legs is since you won't post pictures. Based on your post history, approach to AAS and diet, age, etc., I'd say big legs will never happen and respectable legs is a possibility if you really get leg training figured out. 16 sets of leg press will be boring to most people but it's doing the boring stuff week after week that produces the best results.
 
John Meadows had a really great video on building legs without squats and deadlifts that I just watched today. Maybe check it out. It was a lot of leg extensions, leverage squats, leg curls, coupled with a certain rep/set range.
 
If barbell squats hurt then don't do them. They're one of the worst movements for hypertrophy for most guys so you've likely been wasting time with them anyway.

Hack squats are worth trying but some find they make their knee pain worse. If your knees can handle them they could be a great tool to build your legs.

If you can leg press pain-free then stick with that - many great sets of legs have been built on leg press. Vary your stance, positioning on platform, do bilateral and unilateral, do half your sets on one leg press and the other half on another, etc.

Building big legs that are visually impressive is mainly about the quads and adductors. Leg press can take care of the quad part but you'll have to put a lot of work in on an adduction machine with heavy weight to build those up.

It's hard to say what the potential for your legs is since you won't post pictures. Based on your post history, approach to AAS and diet, age, etc., I'd say big legs will never happen and respectable legs is a possibility if you really get leg training figured out. 16 sets of leg press will be boring to most people but it's doing the boring stuff week after week that produces the best results.
What do you mean approach to AAS, diet, age?

Tried hacks the other day after cortisone shot. Felt pretty good. Prior to cortisone, hacks killed my knees. I’m hoping I can stick with them to build the quads.

Quads are my weakness. I’m pretty good on hamstring exercises.

Leg press is good too but still struggling to get bigger quads.
 
Is it possible? Or if not big, at least respectable legs?

My knees are shot. Dr said patellar tendinitis, went to an orthopedist and he said degenerative cartilage behind the knee. Gave me cortisone and recommended PT.

I’ve tried knee sleeves, helps a little. But even 135 on the bar hurts my knees like crippling pain.
Degenerative cartilage and he gave you cortisone ? did he warn you about the degenerative effects of cortisone on cartilage ?
 
check out the knees over toes guy on utube, maybe something can help you.
 
So my 70+ aunt and uncle were both having serious joint issues. Someone on here raved about a product called J flex 9. I picked some up for both of them and they both have said it has made a huge difference. My uncle specifically doesn't have to wear a sleeve on his knee and elbow anymore, he called it a miracle.

Not trying to push a product, just throwing it out there. Doesn't hurt to try...
 
I have bad knees that prevent me from doing the things that I want to do. I have severe patella maltracking in each leg. The patellas in each knee are laterally tilted to the extent that the lateral edge of the patella has bone spurs on it from rubbing against the femur. Surgery is planned at the end of the year to fix it and hopefully I can get back to 75%.

Over the years I have had to learn to train legs an entirely different way which has lead to learning the correct way of training them.

The truth is that with your condition, you will never have bodybuilder-esque leg development. Depending on where you are in your development, if they are not a dominate bodypart, you will never make them a dominate bodypart. Chances are pretty good that to the bodybuilding eye your legs will be under developed. But to the mainstream world, they will be big. Just keep in mind that Arnold had small legs for his frame in the bodybuilding world, but ask anybody that is not a bodybuilder and everyone will say they are huge.

My patella maltracking gives me so much pain that I have had to completely overhaul and rethink my leg training. I can't do certain things because my knees can't handle it. Those things include items, bent over rows, deadlifts of any sorts, dumbbell rows, jumping, running and most leg exercises. But I have found ways to train them and actually make them a body part that gets complements. To the bodybuilding eye are my legs small? YES. But compared to most people in my gym are they big? YES. Do most general people think I have big legs? YES. Last summer I was walking up to a group of people wearing shorts and the very first thing said to me was "your legs are huge."

The point is you can build great legs. But it will take a lot of effort, discipline, patience.

This is what I do:

1) Take a super high quality Hyaluronic Acid supplement and Turmeric Supplement. I personally take Hyaluronic Acid, Turmeric, Glucosamine, MSM, Chondrition, Cissus, and Boswellia.

2) I also take 2 Aleve and 2 Tylenol every morning and night.

3) Your hips are extremely important. Your legs originate in your hips (Duh) which makes it insanely important to work them and stretch them. 3 times a week I spend an hour stretching my hips with long stretches. I hold the position for 3 minutes then do the next leg.

4) I train legs 2 times a week. When I do, I wear neoprene fat loss shorts. This will keep the heat in your hips and allow them to warm up.

5) When it comes to training you have to rethink how your train legs. It will be a blessing in disguise because you will actually learn how to properly train your legs for growth. Slow down all your reps. They should take 3 seconds minimum on the eccentric. Also boost up your reps. I literally never ever do less than 20 reps for quads. What you have to figure out to do is stress the quads/hammies without stressing the joints. Joints respond to load. The heavier the load the more stress on the joint. Muscles on the other hand respond to load and other things like time under tension and lactic acid build up. What you have to do it make the weight feel heavy without actually being heavy.

I do things like:

50 unbroken reps on the leg press. 3 seconds down, 1-2 seconds up. 50 reps. (trust me, if you can do this for 3-5 sets with 3 plates on a leg press, no way your legs will be small)
Regular Squat or Belt Squat. 10 sets of 5 reps, with 3 seconds down, 5 seconds in the hole. Set a timer for exactly 1 minute in between.
10 sets of 30 on leg press (unbroken). 3 Seconds down, 1-2 seconds up. Set a timer for 1 minute rest.

Trust me, those above are no joke.

6) WARM UP!! If I don't warm up correctly, my knees are fucked. My warm up includes 20 minutes of light biking. 3 sets of 50 each knee of TKE's supersetted with banded abduction for 20-30 reps. Followed by sled drags focusing on the lock out of the leg for about 20 yards, supersetted with sled pushes. For the pushes, keep the hips low and push through. Then it is on to hammies then quads last.

7) Figure out what exercises you can do pain free and do a fuck ton of those. You said 135lb squats hurt. Try something else. When I first started back I could only do TKE's. That was it. Do those for 5 sets of 50, slow and squeeze, 3 times a week and you will get some where. You mentioned 135lbs squats. Can you do them with 95lbs or just even the bar? If you can try to do 3 sets of 20-30, 3 seconds lowering, 3 seconds in the hole.

The point is to find an exercise or weight that doesn't hurt and make it heavy. I can't squat more than 135lbs without knee pain. I don't leg press more than 3 plates a side and it took 2 years to build that. If I do machine squats, it is 1 plate and it took 2 years to get there.

8) Most importantly, BE SMART!!!!! This has taken me a while to figure out. What I mean is, say you can squat 95lbs without pain. DO NOT instantly thing you can do 115 without pain. Take small jumps. Don't try to pr or do more because you are feelin froggy. Literally every time I have done that, I have paid the price by not being able to train legs for weeks afterwards. That is more of a detriment that training them lightly. If you think you can do more, do more next week on the last set with only a 5lb increase. Not training legs because of waiting for knee pain to heal slows down you more than sticking to the same weight.

9) Lastly, don't let a doctor tell you that you can't rebuild cartilage. That is a fallacy. You can. HGH injections in the knee have been shown to increase cartilage. Also there is MACI Implementation surgery which works, but the recovery is 1 year.

Any ways that is my blue print. It has worked for me considering that the weights I use are so small but I do I have decent legs. It is possible, but it does take work.
 
I make my own CBD dermal.
It kills, dulls, the pain for sure .. but it seems once the CBD goes systemic l then feel drowsy all day.
 
Go read on how to properly do occlusion training, get the expensive cuffs with a meter.

One normal leg day, then the next occlusion. You’ll get a training response, and help heal that soft tissue.

I tried occlusion training for a few weeks and was like this is bullshit. Then I went to a licensed PT who specializes in occlusion/neufit therapy. The first proper session I fucking tapped out with 3 sets left on the last exercise. I’ve never had a painful quad and ham pump to the point I wanted to be done.

The workout was simple: single leg ext 30:15:15:15

Lying leg curls: 30:15:15:15

6 inch Peterson step ups: 15:15:15:15

High/wide Leg pres: 15:15:15:15

You only take off the bands when you cannot tolerate anymore pain. BUT if you take the band off, you have to do a 30 rep set to flood the muscle with blood again
 
An occlusion training would be a perfect example to pin some bpc-157 in the am, a an hour later pin HGh, intra workout is drink 10-15g hydrolyzed collagen. Yes collagen is shit for MPS rates compared to EAAs, but this session is for growing tendons.

BPC in literature seems to upregulate gh response in tendons:

“The present study aimed to explore the effect of BPC 157 on tendon fibroblasts isolated from Achilles tendon of male Sprague-Dawley rat. From the result of cDNA microarray analysis, growth hormone receptor was revealed as one of the most abundantly up-regulated genes in tendon fibroblasts by BPC 157. BPC 157 dose- and time-dependently increased the expression of growth hormone receptor in tendon fibroblasts at both the mRNA and protein levels as measured by RT/real-time PCR and Western blot, respectively. The addition of growth hormone to BPC 157-treated tendon fibroblasts dose- and time-dependently increased the cell proliferation as determined by MTT assay and PCNA expression by RT/real-time PCR. Janus kinase 2, the downstream signal pathway of growth hormone receptor, was activated time-dependently by stimulating the BPC 157-treated tendon fibroblasts with growth hormone.”

Chang, Chung-Hsun & Tsai, Wen-Chung & Hsu, Ya-Hui & Pang, Jong-Hwei. (2014). Pentadecapeptide BPC 157 Enhances the Growth Hormone Receptor Expression in Tendon Fibroblasts. Molecules (Basel, Switzerland). 19. 19066-77. 10.3390/molecules191119066.
 
Is it possible? Or if not big, at least respectable legs?

My knees are shot. Dr said patellar tendinitis, went to an orthopedist and he said degenerative cartilage behind the knee. Gave me cortisone and recommended PT.

I’ve tried knee sleeves, helps a little. But even 135 on the bar hurts my knees like crippling pain.
I would avoid knee wraps:

Wearing knee wraps affects mechanical output and performance characteristics of back squat exercise​


Abstract​

The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of wearing knee wraps on mechanical output and performance characteristics of back squat exercise. Ten resistance trained men (back squat 1 repetition maximum [1RM]: 160.5 ± 18.4 kg) performed 6 single back squats with 80% 1RM, 3 wearing knee wraps, 3 without. Mechanical output was obtained from ground reaction force, performance characteristics from digitized motion footage obtained from a single high-speed digital camera. Wearing knee wraps led to a 39% reduction (0.09 compared with 0.11 m, p = 0.037) in horizontal barbell displacement that continued during the lifting phase. Lowering phase vertical impulse remained within 1% across conditions; however, the lowering phase was performed 45% faster (1.13 compared with 1.57 seconds). This demonstrated that vertical force applied to the center of mass during the lowering phase was considerably larger and was likely a consequence of the generation and storage of elastic energy within the knee wrap. Subsequent vertical impulse applied to the center of mass was 10% greater (192 compared with 169 N·s, p = 0.018). Mechanical work involved in vertically displacing the center of mass was performed 20% faster and was reflected by a 10% increase in peak power (2,121 compared with 1,841 W, p = 0.019). The elastic properties of knee wraps increased mechanical output but altered back squat technique in a way that is likely to alter the musculature targeted by the exercise and possibly compromise the integrity of the knee joint. Knee wraps should not be worn during the strength and condition process, and perceived weakness in the knee joint should be assessed and treated.
 
Sometimes it helps to break things down to the simplest, most precise item.

1. Your genetics, diet, and drug use will determine a lot and...

2. What is required for hypertrophy is adequate tension in the targeted muscles. Now put aside the debate on how much tension for how long (volume vs HIT, etc). The core of the notion is a high degree of tension in the targeted muscle is what is required for growth. If you can figure out how to do that, you have potential to develop the muscle further.

Danieltx made a good point. Do movements you can do pain free and can apply an adequate amount of volume and tension.

If it were me...I'd try to apply the highest degree of tension possible with the least amount of reps/sets required. I'm not talking a super slow cadence with 20% of your one rep max. I am talking about a cadence more like a 4-5 second eccentric, slow transition from eccentric to concentric, and 4-5 seconds on the concentric and doing a routine where you work to failure. I'd be thinking...how do I grow with the most tension, and least amount of additional wear and tear. No need to worry about squats as they hurt you and that is basically the opposite of what I'm talking about...extreme wear and tear with little tension on the targeted muscle.

I'd also start your workouts with hamstrings. It's a great hack to help the knees feel better during the workout.
 

Staff online

  • Big A
    IFBB PRO/NPC JUDGE/Administrator
  • K1
    Blue-Eyed Devil

Forum statistics

Total page views
559,703,212
Threads
136,132
Messages
2,780,598
Members
160,448
Latest member
Jim311
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
YMSApril210131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top