Clen and heart problems

[aphextwin]

I have been reading different threads and articles about clen and it possibly being linked to heart issues. I have never used more then 120 mcg at a time. I really wonder if the heart issues might be due to excessive dosages?

 

[aphextwin]

Study I found

Clenbuterol Might Help Fight Heart Failure

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Asthma Drug Might Help Fight Heart Failure

HealthDay News
Forbes
forbes.com
04.21.06

Body builders sometimes turn, illicitly, to the asthma drug clenbuterol Zoek to help them bulk up, but now researchers say the drug might also help heart failure patients stay strong without the need for heart transplant.

Clenbuterol

The first U.S. study of the drug found it was safe in a small number of heart failure patients. The drug was also found to increase skeletal muscle mass and strength, although there was no significant change in heart function.

The trial, which is a precursor to bigger trials, is an example of how far doctors will go to find solutions to the growing problem of heart failure. And like many other avenues of research, the promise is still a faint one.

"We've learned the hard way that any pharmacological intervention in this very fragile group of patients needs to be studied very cautiously and thoroughly," cautioned Dr. Ann Bolger, a spokeswoman for the American Heart Association and professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. "Something that looks to be positive early on may not still be positive later on."

The end step for many heart failure patients is a heart transplant. But with a worldwide shortage of organ donors, many patients have to survive on heart pumps. Is there a way to avoid both heart pumps and transplants? Possibly, the experts say.

"The idea is to one day develop strategies to promote cardiac recovery while patients are supported with a heart pump. That would obviate the need for heart transplants," said Dr. Simon Maybaum, medical director of the Center for Advanced Cardiac Therapy and the Cardiac Transplant and Assist Device Program at Montefiore Medical Center and Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City. "This is a growing area of research, and both novel pharmacological agents and cellular therapy [stem cells] will be studied. This research is crucial since because of the critical lack of organs for patients with end-stage heart failure."

Maybaum was lead author of the study, which was presented recently at a meeting of the International Society of Heart and Lung Transplantation in Madrid, Spain.

"We're looking for ways to make the transition off the pump and potentially go forward from there," Bolger added. "We need more tools to save lives."

Studies done by one British center found that clenbuterol resulted in significant improvement in cardiac function in patients with heart pumps awaiting heart transplants. In fact, the pumps could be taken out in more than half of the patients, meaning they no longer were in need of transplant. Those studies used doses 20 times those typically used by asthma patients and athletes.

Clenbuterol is not approved in the United States and, in fact, has a checkered history: Some people fell ill after eating livestock that had been treated with the drug.

Maybaum, however, managed to obtain permission from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to conduct a small pilot study using high-dose clenbuterol Meer.

There were two parts to the study: The first tested high-dose clenbuterol in heart pump patients. The second focused on whether the drug in lower doses would improve muscle function and quality of life in heart failure patients without heart pumps (those with milder heart failure). Seven patients completed the study.

Clenbuterol did increase skeletal muscle mass and strength, and was safe at the doses given -- 10 to 15 times that usually taken by asthmatics and athletes. There was no significant change in heart function. However, Maybaum pointed out that the study was not designed to look at this. Data from the second part of the study is still blinded to researchers, and therefore not yet available.

The next step will be to conduct a multi-center trial in the United States to try to replicate the British findings with heart pump patients. However, some experts voiced major concerns.

"Patients in heart failure have a pretty broad spectrum of responses to all kinds of therapies, so we have to be very careful. In some situations, this type of drug can be very dangerous with respect to arrhythmias, blood pressure changes and even stroke," Bolger said. "Medications that seem to give the heart an extra boost sometimes make patients feel better, but increase early mortality."

On the other hand, Bolger added, muscle-building strategies including physical fitness, have already been shown to benefit heart failure patients.

Even the study authors were cautious about the odds of success.

"Whenever there are such novel results which have the potential to dramatically affect such a difficult disease process, we go into the research with a mixture of excitement and skepticism," Maybaum acknowledged. "We're optimistic that we will find solution, but we're not sure which one will bear out. We will definitely live in an era where we will be able to repair the heart as opposed to replace it."

Effect of Clenbuterol on Cardiac and Skeletal Muscle Function during LVAD Support

[Oral Session 234]
April 8, 2006
The International Society for Heart & Lung Transplantation

Background: While clenbuterol may improve cardiac function during LVAD support, its effects on skeletal muscle and functional capacity are unknown.

Methods: Eight subjects (5 ischemic, 3 non-ischemic) were enrolled 5-46 weeks post-LVAD implantation. Subjects continued their standard CHF regimen and received clenbuterol to a maximal daily dose of 720 mcg. Echocardiography at reduced LVAD support (4 L/min), cardiopulmonary exercise testing, body composition analysis, and quadriceps maximal voluntary contraction (MVC) were performed at baseline and after 3 months of clenbuterol therapy. Myocyte size and collagen deposition were measured at device implantation and explantation in 4 subjects.

Results: One subject dropped out before receiving clenbuterol. All remaining subjects reached target dose with no serious adverse events or arrhythmias. CPK was elevated in 4 subjects (range 314-1497 mg/dl). Ejection fraction (LVEF) was reduced in all but one subject, with a significant increase in ventricular dimension.

Body weight, lean mass, and quadriceps cross-sectional area significantly increased during the study. Body Weight (lbs) Pre-Clenbuterol: 166 ± 39; Body Weight (lbs) Post-Clenbuterol:177 ± 46. Lean Mass (kg) Pre-Clenbuterol: 21.1 ± 8.9; Lean Mass (kg) Post-Clenbuterol: 23.6 ± 9.7. Fat Mass (kg) Pre-Clenbuterol: 6.8 ± 3.3; Fat Mass (kg) Post-Clenbuterol:7.4 ± 3.7.

Exercise capacity did not change, but MVC significantly improved. No significant change in myocyte size or collagen deposition was seen.

Conclusion: Although no significant change in LVEF was seen, clenbuterol increased skeletal muscle mass and strength and prevented the expected reduction in myocyte size.

 

[Gunsmith]

Wow , so now clen is good for your heart in smaller doeses?

i don't think its any more dangerous than anything else that gets abused , when used in moderation i think its as safe as about anything else.

 

[aphextwin]

I think you are probably right. Just like ECA is safe when used responsibly.

However, when it comes to clen and BB it seems like there is never a responsible dose. The more is better mentallity.

 

[npcout]

When used correctly, I would think you would be alright. Our bodies are very resilient, without prolonged use and high doses, everything should be okay.

 

[ItalianStalion9]

This worried me too so I use albuterol now. I read somewhere that its supposed to be a "cleaner" stimulant. I think it has a much shorter half-life too

 

[mexbeast]

clen is the one drug i will never take again! those of you who experience killer cramps, imaging if you get one of those in your hart? if it was not that bad do you really think mexico would take it off the market? and ban it for vet use.

 

[aphextwin]

Well

Yes, I have had many horrible clen cramps and I know they hurt like hell.

I would not base anything on what Mexico does as far as taking drugs off the market.


By the way, Albuterol has NO fatloss effects or the US Gov. would have banned it.

 

[aphextwin]

I wish we had a real knowleable guy to discuss this topic with. If clen really is bad for the heart, I will never use it again.

 

[Gunsmith]

to much water is bad for your heart , its all about moderation !! like anything else , people get stupid and abuse it for long periods or run stupid doses and they fuck them selves up then want to blam the drug.

Its like sticking a loaded gun in your mouth , you pull the trigger and your gonna die , its not the guns fault your a dumb ass.

My wife take clen @40 mcg/ed and it works better for her asthma than any other med she has ever used

 

[Conciliator]

Here's a link to a ridiculously in-depth discussion regarding the effects and health issues of clen. We cite numerous studies on clen in both human and animals and discuss their implications.

Question about Clen - MESO-Rx

 

[Conciliator]

By the way, Albuterol has NO fatloss effects or the US Gov. would have banned it.

This is incorrect. Human studies have shown that albuterol has muscle building and fat loss effects, just like you see with other beta agonists.

 

[mexbeast]

well, i guess if people are willing to take dnp, clen would be like candy in comparison. those of you who can tolerate it would probably be ok; but why recommend it knowing its potentially lethal? who cares if mexico bans it? what about europe's ban for vet use? does that make a difference? i say why bother with clen when ephedrine works just as well, but in the end its every ones decision, i just try and hopefully safe someones hart ache.

 

[aphextwin]

I have done my own studies since I am an asthmatic and I can tell you Albuterol does not burn fat. Palumbo has even made the same statement as I did above. (NO I am NOT claiming to be a guru)

 

[aphextwin]

GREAT LINK

Here's a link to a ridiculously in-depth discussion regarding the effects and health issues of clen. We cite numerous studies on clen in both human and animals and discuss their implications.

Question about Clen - MESO-Rx

Thanks for sharing this link.[/B]

 

[Conciliator]

I have done my own studies since I am an asthmatic and I can tell you Albuterol does not burn fat.

That's not a study. It's an n=1 anecdote that's nearly worthless for anything reliable about causality. How do you know that you wouldn't have more fat than you have now if you hadn't taken albuterol? You don't. That's the whole point of controlled research, with sufficiently large study groups to detect treatment effects with statistical analysis.

Thanks for sharing this link.

Welcome.

 

[big ronster]

palumbo was referring to albuterol inhalers not tablets.in 8 and 16mg a day doses it burns fat n increases strength and muscle. albuterol tablets have more muscle building effects in humans at useable doses than clen does. look it up

 

[aphextwin]

Are you sure???

I will have to ask him this question again. I am almost positive that he says all Albuterol does not burn fat.

 

[Conciliator]

albuterol tablets have more muscle building effects in humans at useable doses than clen does. look it up

According to what? Look it up where?

 

[maldorf]

This is incorrect. Human studies have shown that albuterol has muscle building and fat loss effects, just like you see with other beta agonists.

yeah, but the doses bodybuilders use is many many times higher than what is used in an inhailer. its in the order of 100s of times greater if not more. Im too lazy right now to look up the data but ive looked at it before. I use albuterol for my asthma. This drug was never approved for usage as such high doses.