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bump this for massive id like to learn more. I want to go this the best way possible.
What is better for you gh or igf?
What is better for you gh or igf?
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.gif "IP Gear")
crazy way to take ur gh
- Thread starter swol
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i would love to use hgh but i was reading it have very dangerous side effects especialy on cancer its very dangerous!!
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arnold_of_malta said:
No relation. IGF has been thought to possibly speed the growth pre-existing cancerous cells. Even if this is true to any degree, a person must already have cancer. GH is and even bigger stretch.
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big a i have been a member of steriod froum for around 1 yr and all of then say that it increases the cancer cells if you have a small cancer already it will make it big a kills you fast! so you sa hgh has no side effects at all????????? if you can give me a good link to were i can read about it on its side effects please!!!!!
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Actually hgh shouldn't be used if you have or are pre-disposed to cancer. It will speed up the cell-division if any cancer cells are present.
On the other hand that would be if you have cancer which you should know before starting AAS, HGH, or IGF1. That's why you should get regular blood tests.
On the other hand that would be if you have cancer which you should know before starting AAS, HGH, or IGF1. That's why you should get regular blood tests.
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from blood test they will now if you have a cancer or not even if it is at the beging??????? and but is pre post to cancer ? you mean if you have it in the family? from my framily only my grand father died from cancer in his liver he is the father of my mother!!!!!!!
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so from bload tests they will know if you have cancer or not even if the cancer is at its really begening they will now from a blood test or you have to do other tests? you said dont use it if you are pre-disposted to cancer what do you mean ? you mean if you had some one in the family that died from cancer you cannot use it ??? from my family my grand father died from liver cancer at the age of 51 he is the father of my mother! so what do you think???? (so for my english but i am not english )
thank you !!!!!!
thank you !!!!!!
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cryptasm the link didnt work
...but i found it. cool site They have an ol article written by Animal
Abracadabra... Big Doc's Protocol for rHGH!
Welcome to Ellis Toussier's
Big Doc's Protocol for taking Human Growth Hormone (rHGH)
How to Get the most "Bang for the Buck" from HGH
Introduction:
Doctor David Speer, known fondly to subscribers of Rejuvenation as "Big Doc", died on February 1st, 2001 of a heart attack. To us that learned from his posts for more than one year and who grew to love and respect him, this is a big loss and we will certainly miss him.
Doc was a lone wolf who refused to follow anything that was "conventional wisdom" blindly. He was a leader, always ahead of his time. He would take his own decisions on how to do things, and these very often were strikingly different than the conventional way of doing things. One of these was his protocol for taking human growth hormone (rHGH).
Doc's life was one of ups and downs. He was a successful anaesthesiaologist and medical school teacher for many years. Then he retired and opened a gym. His interest in body building led him to experiment with a substance called GHB, which he knew is an excellent growth hormone secretagogue. GHB is a metabolite and a precursor of the neurotransmitter gamma aminobutyric acid, otherwise known as GABA. It occurs naturally in every mammal as part of their normal brain function. GHB helps keep our nervous systems functioning properly, and is by far the most effective growth hormone releasing secretagogue known to man.
Unfortunately, GHB was also being blamed for being a "date rape" drug, which may or may not be true, but nobody that Doc sold GHB to, as a service, was ever harmed and nobody he sold GHB to ever harmed anybody else. This was in 1992, and GHB was a legal substance, which could be easily mixed at home, a little more complicated than mixing water and lemon to make a lemon-aid, but legal in any case.
Somehow the F.D.A. learned that Doc was selling GHB in his gym and decided to nail him for it. An F.D.A. undercover agent worked in Doc's gym for more than a year to gather proof that he was selling GHB to his gym students. Doc sold it to them because he knew it was an inexpensive and safe way to enhance their body-building. He did not sell it outside of his gym, and he was not involved in the sale or distribution of illegal drugs of any kind (and in those days GHB was a legal substance.)
GHB was finally made illegal in the United States in the year 2000. It is now classified the same as heroine or cocaine, allegedly because it is a "date rape drug." It can still be bought over the counter in Mexico and Europe, without a prescription, because it has many medical uses, including some for children. (Note: Today you can buy GHB legally in the U.S. from a pharmaceutical company, but at a cost about 40 times what it cost to make it at home, before. It is a crime to make at home, but legal to buy at 40 times the cost... pay the System its dues, and you're o.k.)
But Doc was sent to jail years before it was ever declared an illegal drug. He was told by the F.D.A. that he was guilty of mixing two (legal) substances together to make a third substance. Doc decided to himself that if that was a crime, he was in trouble, so he looked for and found a lawyer. Believing that he was certainly guilty of the "crime" of mixing two legal substances to make a third substance, he allowed his "lawyer" to plea bargain for him, believing he might be reprimanded or fined, but he never thought he could be sentenced to jail.
The "lawyer" plea bargained him into a jail sentence, and then abandoned him! Doc told me that when he heard the Judge sentence him to jail, he couldn't believe that this was really happening to him. When he saw that he was being handcuffed and being led off to jail, he was wondering when he would wake up from this terrible nightmare!
Doc was sent to a Federal penitenciary, with some of the worst criminals and mobsters in the United States. He was released after two years, in terrible health due to the bad food (spaghetti, rice, cereals, etc) and physical inactivity. Because he was not a rich man, but he knew he needed growth hormone, he came up with this protocol, which he used to get the most "Bang for the Buck" from whatever growth hormone he was able to afford.
Doc moved to Can Cun in June, 2000, because he feared that the FDA would send him back to jail if he injected testosterone, which he felt he needed. Testosterone is not illegal in Mexico, and Doc could not risk doing anything illegal in the United States. I flew to Can Cun when he got there, and I spent a pleasant week with him at the Royal Mayan. I helped him to find an apartment, near a gym, and I introduced him to my friends in Can Cun.
In the seven days I stayed with Doc, we discussed his protocol often. I took down detailed notes, just like a secretary. I might have made some minor mistakes, and I don't understand all the words that follow, perfectly well myself, but I understand the important ideas well enough. Most of these are Doc's words, as he spoke them to me. From these notes I now have put together "Doc's Protocol for Taking GH" so that others may read and benefit from Doc's wisdom, as a last tribute to a good man who was unjustly crucified by a tyrant Government agency.
Rest in Peace, my friend, Big Doc. - Ellis Toussier
Dr. David Lee Speer, "Big Doc"
age 68, January, 2001
The Wisdom of Big Doc
DOC'S PROTOCOL FOR TAKING GROWTH HORMONE:
ON Days: Take 3 i.u.'s rHGH in a single shot for 6 days. Eat normally.
OFF Days: Don't take any rHGH for 8 days. Keep carbohydrates very low (meat, chicken, fish, eggs, delactosed milk.) A very low carbohydrate diet allows you to drop insulin level. It is not necessary to go into ketosis, but try to keep insulin as low as possible.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING: You are building up GH concentration in the cytoplasm of liver cells and every cell in the body. GH will bind with protein and DNA, and this will cause them to have all the metabollic effects that growth hormone causes. The main effect of Growth Hormone in the liver is production of various IGF's (insulin growth factors).
The half life of intracellular Growth Hormone is 3 to 4 days. You can see this when you train in the gymnasium, because you can see muscle "pump" and strength gains for a week after you stop taking GH.
You have to have at least 3 i.u.'s to increase the level of intra-cellular GH concentration. Once you reach these greater concentrations, the effect of GH persists for up to a week. If you don't get the GH concentration much higher than it would be if you didn't take GH, then you are never going to have much effect.
Growth hormone binds to DNA and causes, or stimulates, the DNA to produce more ribosomes. Then GH binds to ribosomes and activates them to turn out IGF-1 molecules. IGF-1 molecules leave the cytoplasm and go into the plasma, thus becoming circulating IGF-1. IGF-1 has a half life of about 20 hours.
IGF-1 and insulin both do very similar things: they both attach to receptors of muscle cells. The receptors are very similar. These receptors are part of the cell membrane structure. GH and insulin both increase the cellular membrane permeability of certain amino acids, to thus facilitate the transfer of those amino acids into the muscle cells into the sarco-plasm.
The amino acids that insulin facilitates to cross are different than the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross. The entire array of both of them combined is what is necessary for "proteo-genesis" (new protein for muscles). It is like a double key system in a bank safe: you need both keys, or you can't open the safe. You need ALL the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross AND all the amino acids that insulin helps to cross, or you can't have proteo-genesis.
High IGF-1 with low insulin has no anabolic effect because to have new proteo-genesis you need ALL the amino acids helped across by IGF-1 AND of insulin. Low IGF-1 and high insulin also does not help to build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so the amino acid array is incomplete.
ATP can be formed in ample amounts from glucose, fat, or protein. If IGF-1 synthesis by the liver is markedly reduced during ketosis, as I've theorized, it would have to be the result of specific enzyme changes resulting from low insulin concentrations. Low insulin levels cause widespread metabolic changes throughout the body by changing specific enzyme systems.
In fact, low insulin output, by itself, causes shutdown of proteogenesis, regardless of IGF-1 levels, and is the primary (and maybe the only) cause of the greatly increased output of GH during starvation or keto dieting.
Low insulin also increases fat mobilization, an effect enhanced by elevated GH. So, now I withdraw my prediction of low IGF-1 levels during ketosis, but if they occur, low IGF-1 may be an additive factor in the stimulation of GH output, and in the shutdown of muscle proteogenesis.
Growth hormone goes into the insulin producing cells of the pancreas to greatly increase the output of insulin, so insulin goes way up... unless there is very little carbohydrate... in which case high insulin doesn't happen. If it did, you could go into a hypoglecemia coma, and you could even die. Nobody knows how this happens, but when GH goes into the pancreas, something turns off the pancreas's response to glucose.
Acromegalic Giants all become Type I diabetics eventually, because GH has so overstimulated their insulin producing cells that they have literally burned out. (Type I diabetes means their pancreas doesn't produce any insulin.)
The other effect of GH is that it makes us insulin resistant to glucose concentration. The beauty of this insulin resistance is that it allows us to have a high insulin levels without profound hypoglycemia, and together with the IGF-1 this then gives us a maximum anabolic effect.
But prolonged elevated insulin and insulin resistance could lead us in the wrong direction, and Type II diabetes. So in the week off GH, the very low carbohydrate levels causes very low insulin levels, which hopefully reestablishes normal insulin sensitivity. This restores certain enzyme concentrations back to levels that support the burning of fat, instead of glucose and amino acids (catabolic burning of muscle) to cover the energy requirements.
All this means that we have to cycle... and the cycle is: one week ON growth hormone and carbohydrates, and one week OFF growth hormone and carbohydrates.
Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.
Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.
"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH.
ABOUT ARIMIDEX:
Prohormone precursors (eg., androstenedione) can aromatize directly to estrogen. So don't take androstenedione, or androstenediol, etc. They are all more likely to aromatize to estrogen than testosterone. Arimidex protects you from aromatization from all of them. Arimidex is a breakthrough, it is breakthrough medicine. Everybody (men and women) should probably be on 1 pill of Arimidex per week.
If somebody is taking GH and also testosterone, then they are getting increased water retention from the increase in ADH, and also increased sodium retention from elevated testosterone. Aromatization of testosterone increases with age. So if you take Arimidex, you block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. This then helps to reduce water retention due to elevated estrogen. If you also take clonidine, this stops elevated ADH, which stops the active water retention.
WHY YOU BUILD FAT IF YOU HAVE LOW GH:
If you have low GH and high insulin you don't build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so you can't have proteo-genesis. If you are lacking the amino acids used to make muscle protein, you burn less fat... so fat goes back into fat cells.
Very few doctors understand this. More body builders know this better than many doctors do.
HOW TO DO EXERCISE:
Do three, 15 minute workouts per week. You have to go to complete failure, which is where you cannot do another repetition.
ABOUT HIS TROUBLE WITH THE F.D.A.: "The regional director of the F.D.A. came down from Nashville as part of the bust and he said to me: 'Doctor, I am personally going to see to it that you do prison time.' - I could not understand what I had done to make him hate me so much. Where did this man from the FDA get this hate for me?"
ABOUT STEROIDS:
Dianabol - makes you "horney and virile."
Anadrol 50 (oral) is bad for the liver.
Anavar (oxandrolone) is very safe for the liver. Every man should take one or two pills per day. Women can take it too, because it doesn't have androgenic effects, it is pure anabolic. It boosts the immune system tremendously. People that are HIV+ have taken Anavar for up to 15 years without getting AIDS. They take Anavar plus rHGH. Anavar speeds up (improves) metabolism, and it will not aromatize (convert to estrogen). Zero aromatization. It has no effect on libido, because it has no androgenic (male, virile) effects it is only anabolic (builds muscle). The F.D.A. took it off the market (par for the course, for the F.D.A.) in the U.S. for many years. Now it is back on the market because of the AIDS epidemic. Becoming HIV+ doesn't even scare me (Doc) anymore because Anavar plus growth hormone will prevent HIV+ from becoming AIDS. For example, Magic Johnson was HIV+, now appears to be negative.
Short Protocol for persons that are HIV+: take 4 Anavar per day, plus 3 i.u.'s rHGH per day.
See: Doc Speer's Page on the internet, which he was working on before his death.
For more information on the above please write to me:
[email protected]
====== In his own words = = = = E-mails from Big Doc = = =
I copy here the first e-mail I received from Big Doc to me, Dated March 21, 2000
I am a 68 year old retired Anesthesiologist. After retirement I owned and operated a bodybuilding gym for 9 years. I became a hardcore body-builder in my latter 50's, competing in local and state competitions in 89, 90, and 91 (with the help of steroids of course, which all competitors were using at that time). I won five 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place trophies.
In 1992, I began having anginal chest pain, responsive to nitroglycerine. My coronary occlusive disease was no doubt accelerated by high calorie ketogenic dieting and use of 500 mg stack totals of roids per week to drop my bodyfat down to 4% for competition.
In 1992, I was busted by the FDA for making and selling GHB. Four years later I was sentensed to 30 months in federal prison for my "crimes against the state" (I had no victoms). I lost my gym and all my other assets. I suffered two MI's between indictment and sentensing, and my anginal problem became progressively worse in prison. I refused heart surgery, taking my chances on surviving my sentense.
Two days after my release from incarceration, I had my first chelation infusion. After 12 infusions my coronary status had improved enough for me to join a gym and start easing my way back into bodyduilding. After my first 30 chelations I have continued having one per month for preventive maintenance. Anginal chest pain is no longer a problem for any activity I now enjoy.
Eating junk carbohydrate garbage in the joint and not working out, my bodyfat increased to about 35% (10 inches added to my waistline). I have been doing HIRT (high intensity resistance training) ALA Arther Jones and Mike Mentzer for the past 18 months, and using all the nutritional tricks I know plus creatine and a few other effective supplements. I am now back down to about 12% bodyfat (a loss of about 45 pounds of fat). I lost only 25 pounds of weight, which means I regained 20 pounds of muscle. I believe that such fat loss with simultaneous muscle gain by anyone over 60 without steroids may have never been done before.
I have also been injecting HGH (IV instead of subq for increase bioavaila- bility) for the past 12 months. I would like to warn people with coronary problems about the one potentially serious side effect of HGH use. The water retension from HGH is due to increased secretion of ADH (anti- diuretic hormone) from the posterior pituitary. This hormonal relationship is not in any medical literature. However, it must be true, because the water retension and hypertension are easily controlled by .2mg of clonidine q 12 hours (personal experience). Clonidine's primary action is retarding ADH secretion. ACE inhibitors have no effect, which means that angiotensin and sodium retention are not part of the problem.
The above is important, because ADH is also a generalized vasocon- strictor, capable of causing coronary vasospasm and death. Older people, especially those with a history of coronary occlusive problems, should have nitro handy at all times, and if angina, hypertension or water retension is a problem while using HGH, should be put on clonidine to attenuate the problem.
I have been getting Saizen from RXUSA and paying $1500.00 for 30mg purchases. I am very interested in finding a less expensive source of HGH.
Hoping to hear from you soon,
David L Speer, MD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Dated April 6, 2000)
Ellis,
If your IGF-1 levels are up during the last few days of keto dieting, it could only be the result of increased GH output from your pituitary due to very low insulin levels. However, enzyme changes in the liver, also due to the low insulin levels, might retard IGF-1 production in spite of ribosome stimulation from increased GH. In that case, IGF-1 studies will tell you nothing about your pituitary response to the low insulin levels. This response is part of the feedback loop that regulates GH output.
I believe the following must happen. Specialized neurons in the hypothalamus, sensing the low plasma insulin levels, stimulate their adjacent GHRH producing cells, probably by increased neurohumoral synaptic transmission. A similar chain of events might also decrease somatostatin secretion, providing even more stimulation of pituitary GH output. I can only theorize, since the research has not yet been done.
Improving liver function from HGH use would be a very gradual process occurring over months or years.
I'm not aware of any connection between testosterone levels and IGF-1 production.
While eating normally and not injecting HGH, IGF-1 levels will tell you how your GH secreting pituitary cells are doing. If they are in the normal range, you don't have a problem. Having GH level studies would be expensive, and I doubt that they would be of much value.
If you don't use it, you'll lose it. Right now, we don't know if this happens to pituitary producing cells or not. But I suspect that it probably does to at least some extent. Consider the following: Obese, sedentary people have chronically higher than normal insulin levels, and these folks age much faster than lean and physically fit people do. The obvious connection is chronic depression of GH production from the chronically elevated insulin levels. How much of this depression of pituitary function might become a permanent problem, and how long that might take, is unknown.
Considering all of the above, I'm going to do at least 5 days of keto dieting per month, for the foreseeable future, to benefit from the low insulin stimulating effect on my pituitary.
Doc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Dated May 18, 2000)
[Doc,
What dose of growth hormone would you take every day if growth hormone cost one penny per i.u.?
If IGF-1 tests were free, what IGF-1 level would you consider very high and good, and at what level would you begin to get worried that they are too high?
Another 3 stars for the Big Doc. Thank you for your post. - Ellis] ______________________________________________________________________
Ellis,
If HGH were 1 cent per iu, I might increase to 1 mg per day for 7 or 8 days in a row, instead of the 6 mg I am now doing during my HGH on week. If I made muscle and strength gains much faster than I am now, my heart, with my compromised coronary circulation, might not be able to keep up.
I would continue to do no HGH on alternate weeks for several other reasons too. 1 mg per day is enough to keep insulin levels markedly elevated, provided one is not in ketosis, while also maintaining a high degree of insulin resistance to elevated glucose levels. This combo is excellent for anabolic metabolism, but I believe it is not a desirable situation to have going on continuously, especially for us older guys.
I also believe the alternate weeks off of HGH are important to allow the pituitary and the pancreas to recover again, and also provide low levels of insulin, doing low carbs, during those weeks to restore certain enzyme concentrations back to the levels favoring fat burning over glucose and amino acids to cover energy requirements.
My IGF-1 might already be going out of sight during my HGH on weeks. But many pro bodybuilders have been taking HGH, 4 or more iu everyday continuously for the past 15 years or so, and still seem to be thriving, although I feel certain that some bad consequences will eventually catch up with them.
I would like to know more about the potential adverse effects of maintaining very high IGF-1 levels over a long period of time. Without more information about the dangers of too high (whatever that is) IGF-1 levels, I cannot answer your second question at this time.
Doc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Dated May 28, 2000)
Ellis et al,
I wish to share with the group the below bracketed email to me along with my reply. I hate to miss any opportunity to stir up the group with my UNCONVENTIONAL theories and protocols, all based on nothing but my extensive personal and observed experiences, my medical background in Physiology and Pharmacology, and my ability to think logically. And as most of you are well aware by now, I do not look to current research articles to support any of my ideas or methods. If it works and seems reasonably safe, I do it until I find something that works better. I also enjoy sharing the results of my applications of those theories toward solutions of real problems.
[Question: I am just getting things together to start HRT. I think you have something with your protocol. Will you be so kind as to share your protocol with me? My IGF-1 is around 230, 46 y/o, excellent health. I will be getting the same brand of HGH from Ellis that you are getting. Due to my financial situation, I have to maximize my efforts where I can find an opening. Any tips you care to share?]
My biggest tip (a really huge one) is: I strongly advise you to utilize my 2-week HGH injection cycle. That is, taking the entire vial (6 mg or 18 iu) of HGH during 1 week (1 mg at a time injections on any 6 of those 7 days). Do this every other week, using no HGH during the alternate weeks. My diet/HGH 2-week cycle, going keto without HGH every other week might even increase the ability of your pituitary to produce GH.
If you use up this same amount of expensive HGH, injecting 1/14 of it everyday for the same 2-week period, your results will be relatively insignificant. To me that is equivalent to wasting a lot of money, besides settling for very modest, if any, results. Even during the off week of the 2-week cycle, you would experience at least several times the effects of HGH, that you would notice taking 18/14 iu everyday. And the spectacular effects during the on weeks, you will just have to experience for yourself. If you are a bodybuilder, it will seem like you just started a major cycle of anabolic steroids. The gains in muscle size and strength along with the continuous around the clock muscle pump will add much to your HGH high.
If you wish to lose some fat or avoid gaining any from the elevated insulin levels, resulting from the HGH, then also do my 2-week diet cycle integrated with the HGH cycle. That is, keep your carbohydrate intake very low on 5 days of the HGH off week, carbing up on the weekend. Try it. You will like it.
[Also, I read a post referring to creatine. It stated that research demonstrates that creatine is ineffective in populations over 45. Is this your experience as well?]
I am 68 years old, and I have been taking creatine for over 4 years. I would not bother or continue wasting my money for any extended period of time on a supplement if it did nothing for me. Even without HGH, creatine keeps me a bit pumped and able to work out with more intensity, maintaining a higher plateau of fitness (lean muscularity). I may be young for my age, but my physiological age is considerably more than 45. Therefore, I must conclude that the research findings are very incorrect, at least how they apply to me. This is a good example of why I do not put much stock in current research.]
Include a heaping tblsp of creatine powder in your meal replacement supplement shake every day. If you waste a little by taking more than will keep your muscles loaded, so what? It is safe and cheap. I get 1500 GMs of it (HDT brand--CM 5000), more than a six months supply, from musclemaster.com for $38.95.
You were smart enough to ask for my advice. Now be smart enough to make good use of it.
I have received one order of HGH so far from Ellis, and am about to place my second order of 30 mg. You need to have a prescription handy to fax to the package courier, but it rarely is necessary. I am comfortable about every aspect of buying my HGH from Ellis. I just found out that Ellis is now sending bacteriostatic water with each order, which is another problem solved.
Doc
...but i found it. cool site They have an ol article written by Animal
Abracadabra... Big Doc's Protocol for rHGH!
Welcome to Ellis Toussier's
Big Doc's Protocol for taking Human Growth Hormone (rHGH)
How to Get the most "Bang for the Buck" from HGH
Introduction:
Doctor David Speer, known fondly to subscribers of Rejuvenation as "Big Doc", died on February 1st, 2001 of a heart attack. To us that learned from his posts for more than one year and who grew to love and respect him, this is a big loss and we will certainly miss him.
Doc was a lone wolf who refused to follow anything that was "conventional wisdom" blindly. He was a leader, always ahead of his time. He would take his own decisions on how to do things, and these very often were strikingly different than the conventional way of doing things. One of these was his protocol for taking human growth hormone (rHGH).
Doc's life was one of ups and downs. He was a successful anaesthesiaologist and medical school teacher for many years. Then he retired and opened a gym. His interest in body building led him to experiment with a substance called GHB, which he knew is an excellent growth hormone secretagogue. GHB is a metabolite and a precursor of the neurotransmitter gamma aminobutyric acid, otherwise known as GABA. It occurs naturally in every mammal as part of their normal brain function. GHB helps keep our nervous systems functioning properly, and is by far the most effective growth hormone releasing secretagogue known to man.
Unfortunately, GHB was also being blamed for being a "date rape" drug, which may or may not be true, but nobody that Doc sold GHB to, as a service, was ever harmed and nobody he sold GHB to ever harmed anybody else. This was in 1992, and GHB was a legal substance, which could be easily mixed at home, a little more complicated than mixing water and lemon to make a lemon-aid, but legal in any case.
Somehow the F.D.A. learned that Doc was selling GHB in his gym and decided to nail him for it. An F.D.A. undercover agent worked in Doc's gym for more than a year to gather proof that he was selling GHB to his gym students. Doc sold it to them because he knew it was an inexpensive and safe way to enhance their body-building. He did not sell it outside of his gym, and he was not involved in the sale or distribution of illegal drugs of any kind (and in those days GHB was a legal substance.)
GHB was finally made illegal in the United States in the year 2000. It is now classified the same as heroine or cocaine, allegedly because it is a "date rape drug." It can still be bought over the counter in Mexico and Europe, without a prescription, because it has many medical uses, including some for children. (Note: Today you can buy GHB legally in the U.S. from a pharmaceutical company, but at a cost about 40 times what it cost to make it at home, before. It is a crime to make at home, but legal to buy at 40 times the cost... pay the System its dues, and you're o.k.)
But Doc was sent to jail years before it was ever declared an illegal drug. He was told by the F.D.A. that he was guilty of mixing two (legal) substances together to make a third substance. Doc decided to himself that if that was a crime, he was in trouble, so he looked for and found a lawyer. Believing that he was certainly guilty of the "crime" of mixing two legal substances to make a third substance, he allowed his "lawyer" to plea bargain for him, believing he might be reprimanded or fined, but he never thought he could be sentenced to jail.
The "lawyer" plea bargained him into a jail sentence, and then abandoned him! Doc told me that when he heard the Judge sentence him to jail, he couldn't believe that this was really happening to him. When he saw that he was being handcuffed and being led off to jail, he was wondering when he would wake up from this terrible nightmare!
Doc was sent to a Federal penitenciary, with some of the worst criminals and mobsters in the United States. He was released after two years, in terrible health due to the bad food (spaghetti, rice, cereals, etc) and physical inactivity. Because he was not a rich man, but he knew he needed growth hormone, he came up with this protocol, which he used to get the most "Bang for the Buck" from whatever growth hormone he was able to afford.
Doc moved to Can Cun in June, 2000, because he feared that the FDA would send him back to jail if he injected testosterone, which he felt he needed. Testosterone is not illegal in Mexico, and Doc could not risk doing anything illegal in the United States. I flew to Can Cun when he got there, and I spent a pleasant week with him at the Royal Mayan. I helped him to find an apartment, near a gym, and I introduced him to my friends in Can Cun.
In the seven days I stayed with Doc, we discussed his protocol often. I took down detailed notes, just like a secretary. I might have made some minor mistakes, and I don't understand all the words that follow, perfectly well myself, but I understand the important ideas well enough. Most of these are Doc's words, as he spoke them to me. From these notes I now have put together "Doc's Protocol for Taking GH" so that others may read and benefit from Doc's wisdom, as a last tribute to a good man who was unjustly crucified by a tyrant Government agency.
Rest in Peace, my friend, Big Doc. - Ellis Toussier
Dr. David Lee Speer, "Big Doc"
age 68, January, 2001
The Wisdom of Big Doc
DOC'S PROTOCOL FOR TAKING GROWTH HORMONE:
ON Days: Take 3 i.u.'s rHGH in a single shot for 6 days. Eat normally.
OFF Days: Don't take any rHGH for 8 days. Keep carbohydrates very low (meat, chicken, fish, eggs, delactosed milk.) A very low carbohydrate diet allows you to drop insulin level. It is not necessary to go into ketosis, but try to keep insulin as low as possible.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING: You are building up GH concentration in the cytoplasm of liver cells and every cell in the body. GH will bind with protein and DNA, and this will cause them to have all the metabollic effects that growth hormone causes. The main effect of Growth Hormone in the liver is production of various IGF's (insulin growth factors).
The half life of intracellular Growth Hormone is 3 to 4 days. You can see this when you train in the gymnasium, because you can see muscle "pump" and strength gains for a week after you stop taking GH.
You have to have at least 3 i.u.'s to increase the level of intra-cellular GH concentration. Once you reach these greater concentrations, the effect of GH persists for up to a week. If you don't get the GH concentration much higher than it would be if you didn't take GH, then you are never going to have much effect.
Growth hormone binds to DNA and causes, or stimulates, the DNA to produce more ribosomes. Then GH binds to ribosomes and activates them to turn out IGF-1 molecules. IGF-1 molecules leave the cytoplasm and go into the plasma, thus becoming circulating IGF-1. IGF-1 has a half life of about 20 hours.
IGF-1 and insulin both do very similar things: they both attach to receptors of muscle cells. The receptors are very similar. These receptors are part of the cell membrane structure. GH and insulin both increase the cellular membrane permeability of certain amino acids, to thus facilitate the transfer of those amino acids into the muscle cells into the sarco-plasm.
The amino acids that insulin facilitates to cross are different than the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross. The entire array of both of them combined is what is necessary for "proteo-genesis" (new protein for muscles). It is like a double key system in a bank safe: you need both keys, or you can't open the safe. You need ALL the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross AND all the amino acids that insulin helps to cross, or you can't have proteo-genesis.
High IGF-1 with low insulin has no anabolic effect because to have new proteo-genesis you need ALL the amino acids helped across by IGF-1 AND of insulin. Low IGF-1 and high insulin also does not help to build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so the amino acid array is incomplete.
ATP can be formed in ample amounts from glucose, fat, or protein. If IGF-1 synthesis by the liver is markedly reduced during ketosis, as I've theorized, it would have to be the result of specific enzyme changes resulting from low insulin concentrations. Low insulin levels cause widespread metabolic changes throughout the body by changing specific enzyme systems.
In fact, low insulin output, by itself, causes shutdown of proteogenesis, regardless of IGF-1 levels, and is the primary (and maybe the only) cause of the greatly increased output of GH during starvation or keto dieting.
Low insulin also increases fat mobilization, an effect enhanced by elevated GH. So, now I withdraw my prediction of low IGF-1 levels during ketosis, but if they occur, low IGF-1 may be an additive factor in the stimulation of GH output, and in the shutdown of muscle proteogenesis.
Growth hormone goes into the insulin producing cells of the pancreas to greatly increase the output of insulin, so insulin goes way up... unless there is very little carbohydrate... in which case high insulin doesn't happen. If it did, you could go into a hypoglecemia coma, and you could even die. Nobody knows how this happens, but when GH goes into the pancreas, something turns off the pancreas's response to glucose.
Acromegalic Giants all become Type I diabetics eventually, because GH has so overstimulated their insulin producing cells that they have literally burned out. (Type I diabetes means their pancreas doesn't produce any insulin.)
The other effect of GH is that it makes us insulin resistant to glucose concentration. The beauty of this insulin resistance is that it allows us to have a high insulin levels without profound hypoglycemia, and together with the IGF-1 this then gives us a maximum anabolic effect.
But prolonged elevated insulin and insulin resistance could lead us in the wrong direction, and Type II diabetes. So in the week off GH, the very low carbohydrate levels causes very low insulin levels, which hopefully reestablishes normal insulin sensitivity. This restores certain enzyme concentrations back to levels that support the burning of fat, instead of glucose and amino acids (catabolic burning of muscle) to cover the energy requirements.
All this means that we have to cycle... and the cycle is: one week ON growth hormone and carbohydrates, and one week OFF growth hormone and carbohydrates.
Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.
Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.
"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH.
ABOUT ARIMIDEX:
Prohormone precursors (eg., androstenedione) can aromatize directly to estrogen. So don't take androstenedione, or androstenediol, etc. They are all more likely to aromatize to estrogen than testosterone. Arimidex protects you from aromatization from all of them. Arimidex is a breakthrough, it is breakthrough medicine. Everybody (men and women) should probably be on 1 pill of Arimidex per week.
If somebody is taking GH and also testosterone, then they are getting increased water retention from the increase in ADH, and also increased sodium retention from elevated testosterone. Aromatization of testosterone increases with age. So if you take Arimidex, you block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. This then helps to reduce water retention due to elevated estrogen. If you also take clonidine, this stops elevated ADH, which stops the active water retention.
WHY YOU BUILD FAT IF YOU HAVE LOW GH:
If you have low GH and high insulin you don't build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so you can't have proteo-genesis. If you are lacking the amino acids used to make muscle protein, you burn less fat... so fat goes back into fat cells.
Very few doctors understand this. More body builders know this better than many doctors do.
HOW TO DO EXERCISE:
Do three, 15 minute workouts per week. You have to go to complete failure, which is where you cannot do another repetition.
ABOUT HIS TROUBLE WITH THE F.D.A.: "The regional director of the F.D.A. came down from Nashville as part of the bust and he said to me: 'Doctor, I am personally going to see to it that you do prison time.' - I could not understand what I had done to make him hate me so much. Where did this man from the FDA get this hate for me?"
ABOUT STEROIDS:
Dianabol - makes you "horney and virile."
Anadrol 50 (oral) is bad for the liver.
Anavar (oxandrolone) is very safe for the liver. Every man should take one or two pills per day. Women can take it too, because it doesn't have androgenic effects, it is pure anabolic. It boosts the immune system tremendously. People that are HIV+ have taken Anavar for up to 15 years without getting AIDS. They take Anavar plus rHGH. Anavar speeds up (improves) metabolism, and it will not aromatize (convert to estrogen). Zero aromatization. It has no effect on libido, because it has no androgenic (male, virile) effects it is only anabolic (builds muscle). The F.D.A. took it off the market (par for the course, for the F.D.A.) in the U.S. for many years. Now it is back on the market because of the AIDS epidemic. Becoming HIV+ doesn't even scare me (Doc) anymore because Anavar plus growth hormone will prevent HIV+ from becoming AIDS. For example, Magic Johnson was HIV+, now appears to be negative.
Short Protocol for persons that are HIV+: take 4 Anavar per day, plus 3 i.u.'s rHGH per day.
See: Doc Speer's Page on the internet, which he was working on before his death.
For more information on the above please write to me:
[email protected]
====== In his own words = = = = E-mails from Big Doc = = =
I copy here the first e-mail I received from Big Doc to me, Dated March 21, 2000
I am a 68 year old retired Anesthesiologist. After retirement I owned and operated a bodybuilding gym for 9 years. I became a hardcore body-builder in my latter 50's, competing in local and state competitions in 89, 90, and 91 (with the help of steroids of course, which all competitors were using at that time). I won five 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place trophies.
In 1992, I began having anginal chest pain, responsive to nitroglycerine. My coronary occlusive disease was no doubt accelerated by high calorie ketogenic dieting and use of 500 mg stack totals of roids per week to drop my bodyfat down to 4% for competition.
In 1992, I was busted by the FDA for making and selling GHB. Four years later I was sentensed to 30 months in federal prison for my "crimes against the state" (I had no victoms). I lost my gym and all my other assets. I suffered two MI's between indictment and sentensing, and my anginal problem became progressively worse in prison. I refused heart surgery, taking my chances on surviving my sentense.
Two days after my release from incarceration, I had my first chelation infusion. After 12 infusions my coronary status had improved enough for me to join a gym and start easing my way back into bodyduilding. After my first 30 chelations I have continued having one per month for preventive maintenance. Anginal chest pain is no longer a problem for any activity I now enjoy.
Eating junk carbohydrate garbage in the joint and not working out, my bodyfat increased to about 35% (10 inches added to my waistline). I have been doing HIRT (high intensity resistance training) ALA Arther Jones and Mike Mentzer for the past 18 months, and using all the nutritional tricks I know plus creatine and a few other effective supplements. I am now back down to about 12% bodyfat (a loss of about 45 pounds of fat). I lost only 25 pounds of weight, which means I regained 20 pounds of muscle. I believe that such fat loss with simultaneous muscle gain by anyone over 60 without steroids may have never been done before.
I have also been injecting HGH (IV instead of subq for increase bioavaila- bility) for the past 12 months. I would like to warn people with coronary problems about the one potentially serious side effect of HGH use. The water retension from HGH is due to increased secretion of ADH (anti- diuretic hormone) from the posterior pituitary. This hormonal relationship is not in any medical literature. However, it must be true, because the water retension and hypertension are easily controlled by .2mg of clonidine q 12 hours (personal experience). Clonidine's primary action is retarding ADH secretion. ACE inhibitors have no effect, which means that angiotensin and sodium retention are not part of the problem.
The above is important, because ADH is also a generalized vasocon- strictor, capable of causing coronary vasospasm and death. Older people, especially those with a history of coronary occlusive problems, should have nitro handy at all times, and if angina, hypertension or water retension is a problem while using HGH, should be put on clonidine to attenuate the problem.
I have been getting Saizen from RXUSA and paying $1500.00 for 30mg purchases. I am very interested in finding a less expensive source of HGH.
Hoping to hear from you soon,
David L Speer, MD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Dated April 6, 2000)
Ellis,
If your IGF-1 levels are up during the last few days of keto dieting, it could only be the result of increased GH output from your pituitary due to very low insulin levels. However, enzyme changes in the liver, also due to the low insulin levels, might retard IGF-1 production in spite of ribosome stimulation from increased GH. In that case, IGF-1 studies will tell you nothing about your pituitary response to the low insulin levels. This response is part of the feedback loop that regulates GH output.
I believe the following must happen. Specialized neurons in the hypothalamus, sensing the low plasma insulin levels, stimulate their adjacent GHRH producing cells, probably by increased neurohumoral synaptic transmission. A similar chain of events might also decrease somatostatin secretion, providing even more stimulation of pituitary GH output. I can only theorize, since the research has not yet been done.
Improving liver function from HGH use would be a very gradual process occurring over months or years.
I'm not aware of any connection between testosterone levels and IGF-1 production.
While eating normally and not injecting HGH, IGF-1 levels will tell you how your GH secreting pituitary cells are doing. If they are in the normal range, you don't have a problem. Having GH level studies would be expensive, and I doubt that they would be of much value.
If you don't use it, you'll lose it. Right now, we don't know if this happens to pituitary producing cells or not. But I suspect that it probably does to at least some extent. Consider the following: Obese, sedentary people have chronically higher than normal insulin levels, and these folks age much faster than lean and physically fit people do. The obvious connection is chronic depression of GH production from the chronically elevated insulin levels. How much of this depression of pituitary function might become a permanent problem, and how long that might take, is unknown.
Considering all of the above, I'm going to do at least 5 days of keto dieting per month, for the foreseeable future, to benefit from the low insulin stimulating effect on my pituitary.
Doc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Dated May 18, 2000)
[Doc,
What dose of growth hormone would you take every day if growth hormone cost one penny per i.u.?
If IGF-1 tests were free, what IGF-1 level would you consider very high and good, and at what level would you begin to get worried that they are too high?
Another 3 stars for the Big Doc. Thank you for your post. - Ellis] ______________________________________________________________________
Ellis,
If HGH were 1 cent per iu, I might increase to 1 mg per day for 7 or 8 days in a row, instead of the 6 mg I am now doing during my HGH on week. If I made muscle and strength gains much faster than I am now, my heart, with my compromised coronary circulation, might not be able to keep up.
I would continue to do no HGH on alternate weeks for several other reasons too. 1 mg per day is enough to keep insulin levels markedly elevated, provided one is not in ketosis, while also maintaining a high degree of insulin resistance to elevated glucose levels. This combo is excellent for anabolic metabolism, but I believe it is not a desirable situation to have going on continuously, especially for us older guys.
I also believe the alternate weeks off of HGH are important to allow the pituitary and the pancreas to recover again, and also provide low levels of insulin, doing low carbs, during those weeks to restore certain enzyme concentrations back to the levels favoring fat burning over glucose and amino acids to cover energy requirements.
My IGF-1 might already be going out of sight during my HGH on weeks. But many pro bodybuilders have been taking HGH, 4 or more iu everyday continuously for the past 15 years or so, and still seem to be thriving, although I feel certain that some bad consequences will eventually catch up with them.
I would like to know more about the potential adverse effects of maintaining very high IGF-1 levels over a long period of time. Without more information about the dangers of too high (whatever that is) IGF-1 levels, I cannot answer your second question at this time.
Doc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Dated May 28, 2000)
Ellis et al,
I wish to share with the group the below bracketed email to me along with my reply. I hate to miss any opportunity to stir up the group with my UNCONVENTIONAL theories and protocols, all based on nothing but my extensive personal and observed experiences, my medical background in Physiology and Pharmacology, and my ability to think logically. And as most of you are well aware by now, I do not look to current research articles to support any of my ideas or methods. If it works and seems reasonably safe, I do it until I find something that works better. I also enjoy sharing the results of my applications of those theories toward solutions of real problems.
[Question: I am just getting things together to start HRT. I think you have something with your protocol. Will you be so kind as to share your protocol with me? My IGF-1 is around 230, 46 y/o, excellent health. I will be getting the same brand of HGH from Ellis that you are getting. Due to my financial situation, I have to maximize my efforts where I can find an opening. Any tips you care to share?]
My biggest tip (a really huge one) is: I strongly advise you to utilize my 2-week HGH injection cycle. That is, taking the entire vial (6 mg or 18 iu) of HGH during 1 week (1 mg at a time injections on any 6 of those 7 days). Do this every other week, using no HGH during the alternate weeks. My diet/HGH 2-week cycle, going keto without HGH every other week might even increase the ability of your pituitary to produce GH.
If you use up this same amount of expensive HGH, injecting 1/14 of it everyday for the same 2-week period, your results will be relatively insignificant. To me that is equivalent to wasting a lot of money, besides settling for very modest, if any, results. Even during the off week of the 2-week cycle, you would experience at least several times the effects of HGH, that you would notice taking 18/14 iu everyday. And the spectacular effects during the on weeks, you will just have to experience for yourself. If you are a bodybuilder, it will seem like you just started a major cycle of anabolic steroids. The gains in muscle size and strength along with the continuous around the clock muscle pump will add much to your HGH high.
If you wish to lose some fat or avoid gaining any from the elevated insulin levels, resulting from the HGH, then also do my 2-week diet cycle integrated with the HGH cycle. That is, keep your carbohydrate intake very low on 5 days of the HGH off week, carbing up on the weekend. Try it. You will like it.
[Also, I read a post referring to creatine. It stated that research demonstrates that creatine is ineffective in populations over 45. Is this your experience as well?]
I am 68 years old, and I have been taking creatine for over 4 years. I would not bother or continue wasting my money for any extended period of time on a supplement if it did nothing for me. Even without HGH, creatine keeps me a bit pumped and able to work out with more intensity, maintaining a higher plateau of fitness (lean muscularity). I may be young for my age, but my physiological age is considerably more than 45. Therefore, I must conclude that the research findings are very incorrect, at least how they apply to me. This is a good example of why I do not put much stock in current research.]
Include a heaping tblsp of creatine powder in your meal replacement supplement shake every day. If you waste a little by taking more than will keep your muscles loaded, so what? It is safe and cheap. I get 1500 GMs of it (HDT brand--CM 5000), more than a six months supply, from musclemaster.com for $38.95.
You were smart enough to ask for my advice. Now be smart enough to make good use of it.
I have received one order of HGH so far from Ellis, and am about to place my second order of 30 mg. You need to have a prescription handy to fax to the package courier, but it rarely is necessary. I am comfortable about every aspect of buying my HGH from Ellis. I just found out that Ellis is now sending bacteriostatic water with each order, which is another problem solved.
Doc
Big A
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arnold_of_malta said:
GH will accelerate cancer if you have it, but it will not cause cancer!
Most probably, your grandfather had liver cancer from alcohol, chemicals, etc. Usually, that is a common cause for liver problems, not genetic. Although, he could have had a genetic predispotion to be sensitive there for cancer.
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Big A said:
so big a what tests shall i do so i will be 100% safe to see that i am every think ok???? my grand father never drank alchol but he use to work in a petrol station!!!!
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There is no test to determine if you get cancer...we injest more toxic chemicals in our body in a day from water air and the food that we would from a needle.arnold_of_malta said:
GH and AAS do not cause cancer directly. You have to be genetcally predisposed to it.
you can't walk around on eggshells your whole life.
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Massive G said:There is no test to determine if you get cancer...we injest more toxic chemicals in our body in a day from water air and the food that we would from a needle.
GH and AAS do not cause cancer directly. You have to be genetcally predisposed to it.
you can't walk around on eggshells your whole life.
I heard the White deoderant causes cancer
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Looks like the other guy big doc was in the business too..saint808 said:
I am 68 years old, and I have been taking creatine for over 4 years. I would not bother or continue wasting my money for any extended period of time on a supplement if it did nothing for me. Even without HGH, creatine keeps me a bit pumped and able to work out with more intensity, maintaining a higher plateau of fitness (lean muscularity). I may be young for my age, but my physiological age is considerably more than 45. Therefore, I must conclude that the research findings are very incorrect, at least how they apply to me. This is a good example of why I do not put much stock in current research.]
Include a heaping tblsp of creatine powder in your meal replacement supplement shake every day. If you waste a little by taking more than will keep your muscles loaded, so what? It is safe and cheap. I get 1500 GMs of it (HDT brand--CM 5000), more than a six months supply, from musclemaster.com for $38.95.
You were smart enough to ask for my advice. Now be smart enough to make good use of it.
I have received one order of HGH so far from Ellis, and am about to place my second order of 30 mg. You need to have a prescription handy to fax to the package courier, but it rarely is necessary. I am comfortable about every aspect of buying my HGH from Ellis. I just found out that Ellis is now sending bacteriostatic water with each order, which is another problem solved.
Doc
Anyway I didn't bother to read the whole article but it looks like horse shit to me and most guys aren't gonna follow a meticulous plan to pump and prime hormones with a meticulous diet in the offseason etc.
Too hard to follow. Most peopel overanalyze this shit something fierce and the smartes guys with the theroies for the most part will be the smallest ones or ones that don't even lift.
not a flame just an observation. This shit is soo simple it's pitiful but I see people assigneing rocket science to it, on esters blood levels timings etcetc etc.and it is pretty basic stuff even GH IMO.
bigbaldbulldog
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Does Phil...
Does Phil have anything to say on this subject? Aftewr all he is in the topic of conversation with 4 post...Big A said:
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Massive G said:Most peopel overanalyze this shit something fierce and the smartes guys with the theroies for the most part will be the smallest ones or ones that don't even lift.
not a flame just an observation. This shit is soo simple it's pitiful but I see people assigneing rocket science to it, on esters blood levels timings etcetc etc.and it is pretty basic stuff even GH IMO.
WERD
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